MAINE ISN'T # 1

[luckyleftyme2]

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU HEARD MAINE IS # 1 IN THE TAX BURDEN? WELL KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THIS STEMS FROM TWO DIS-CONTENTED MIS-INFORMED TRANSPLANTS.
The fACT IS THAT ONCE AGAIN NEW YORK IS #1 WYOMING IS (CHENNY'S STATE) #2 AND ETC. I DID NOT SEE MAINE IN THE TOP 5.
I have felt in the past that neither of these two could back up most of their dismal outlook
of "mainers". In fact today I saw both idiots trying to defend a failed policy.
HAVING SPENT TIME IN FLORIDA .I'LL LEAVE SAYING THIS OLE GATOR SAYING: THEY WERE LEFT OUT IN THE SUN TO LONG!!(HA HA) I KNOW HE'LL READ THIS!

[crim son]

1. Link, please.

Where did you read this?

[Deep Thinker]

2. How do you explain this story?

http://taxfoundation.org/news/show/1553.html

[crim son]

3. I assume you meant to respond to the OP.

I don't know where we stand but the tax burden is too high and that's that.

[Deep Thinker]

4. yes I did

He seems to ignore reality. Even the Governor has said our tax burden is too high and our national status must come down.

I thought this guy was pals with the Governor and would know this

[crim son]

5. No offense to the OP but

clear thinking may not be his/her specialty.

[Maine-ah]

6. .

:hi:

[crim son]

7. We meet again!

:hi:

[luckyleftyme2]

25. RE-READ MY POST

AND SHOW ME FACT! YOU HAVE NONE!

[luckyleftyme2]

10. I DIDN'T

I'VE SEEN IT TWICE ON T.V. -BUT NOT MAINE STA,S.-PERHAPS YOU KNOW THAT CHANNEL 2 IS VERY BIAS TOWARD THE REPUBLICANS.
NOW I KNOW WE HAVE A HIGH TAX BURDEN,YES I LIKE BALDACCI,YES I KNOW HIS FAMILY RESTAURANT AND
YES HE OCCASIONALLY COMES INTO WHERE I WORK.
WHY I LIKE HIM IS HE COMES FROM A WORKING FAMILY,HE REPRESENTS THE AMERICAN DREAM AND I PERSONALLY THINK HE TOOK OVER THE OFFICE IN THE WORST OF TIMES.
I HAVE SEEN THIS REPORTED ON C-SPAN AND MAINE WAS NOT IN THE TOP 5,THEY WERE #11-I SEE IT YESTERDAY ON THE REGIS PROGRAM AND HE WAS REPORTING IT FROM A REPORT (WHICH I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF) NOW I'M NOT STUPID AND I'M NOT DISGUISED AS A DEMOCRAT LIKE SEVERAL WHO HAVE RESPONDED! NOR DO I BELIEVE THAT THAT FOOL SPOUTING SUPPORT FOR THE PRESIDENTS DECISION TO SEND MORE TROOPS
WITHOUT A COMMITMENT TO WIN IS GOING TO GAIN ANYTHING BUT MORE CHAOS!
AND THAT THINK TANK MAINE HERITAGE IS DEF. LEANING RIGHT!

[Deep Thinker]

13. WOW, you take Regis over CNN

You gotta be kidding me? Are you joking? CNN is the most comprehensive news source in the world. You are touting Regis and Kathy Lee over CNN

Now wonder no one takes you seriously.

The Fox guy you love so much is right about the tax burden. He is just wrong about how you solve it. He wants to give tax cuts to the top end and let them trickle down through consumption. More Reagan stuff, but Reagan is his hero.

I think he is funny and gets all worked up in front of everybody as though he doesn't care what any one thinks about him. Thanks to you lucky, I get a good laugh every morning.

I will say this for him. He is wrong about most stuff, but he is not afraid to be wrong. Most people are.

[luckyleftyme2]

18. DEEP THINKER POOR READER

RE-READ MY RESPONSE-I QUOTED C-SPAN 2006 REPORT-NOT THE DIS-FUNCTIONAL REAL-ESTATE REPORT WHICH
IS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT AND IS 2005 REPORT.
IF YOU USE AND ENTIRELY DIFFERENT POLE IN A DIFFERENT ARENA -THATS OUT OF CONTEXT!

[mile53]

8. Check your facts!

http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/08/real_estate/tax_friendly/index.htm?postversion=2005041111

[Maine-ah]

9. lol

get used to it. Every time I haved asked for proof or links, I just get yelled at.

[luckyleftyme2]

11. LIKE I SAID

I'M NOT A REPUKE DISQUISED AS A DEMOCRAT,THE DATA YOUR USING IS NOT -I REPEAT NOT CURRENT NOR IS IT ACCURATE BUT SIMPLY AN OPINION-LIKE MOTOR MOUTH ON FOX AND HIS COHORT FROM THE HERITAGE GROUP THEY THROW BONES TO THE UNEDUCATED TO DO THEIR DIRTY WORK!
GIVE ME SOME TAX DATA LOSER

[cosmik debris]

12. Have you ever considered

Learning to use the "caps lock" and "shift" keys correctly?

Are you aware that typing in all caps is considered shouting?

Did you know that this is rude?

Shouting at people only discredits your position. Try being polite and see if you get more respect.

[Maine-ah]

15. so why don't you show some opposing data?

with a link?

so much for ignoring on my own....lol....don't make me use that button!

[luckyleftyme2]

26. I DID

TRY THE OVERALL TAX PER CAPITA. THIS INCLUDES INCOME AND TOTAL TAXES. NOT JUST ONE FACT. ALSO
REAL ESTATE TAXES IN NEW HAMPSHIRE ARE MUCH HIGHER THAN MAINE- LOOK IT UP'
GA. INCOME 30,800 PER CAPITA--- TAXES 8000
MW INCOME 31,770 PER CAPITA--- TAXES 7000
JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF WHY WE'RE NOT #1

[mainegreen]

14. The trick in taxes is how much of these taxes are redistributed back down in services,

especially to the poor. With that you would see Maine's tax burden drop down, but that is never included in the calculation. While I would love to see the income tax drop, I sure as hell would not want to see the sales tax drop. All in all, these ranking lists are about as useful as rat crap.

[Shorebound]

16. Mainegreen, how would you

measure the value of services to the poor? Do we count direct payments, administrative costs, indirect support? While your point may be a legitimate consideration, does Maine's level of services to the poor somehow exceed that of other states? I don't recall offhand that Maine has a significantly larger percentage of its population below the poverty level than other states, but I could be wrong. And if we do use your added input, wouldn't we have to do the same with other states to make a valid comparison?

I agree that reducing the sales tax would be counterproductive unless it is accompanied by a broadening of the tax to other goods and services. The sales tax bothers me because it is usually a higher percentage of overall income for low-income people than it is for high-income people. I don't think there is a sales tax on buying stocks or bonds, for example. The income tax is fairer in that respect, determined more by ability to pay than requirement to spend. Maine's income tax needs major reform though, because the maximum rate of 8.5 percent kicks in around $17,000, which is below poverty level IIRC. I consider that shameful.

[mainegreen]

17. I have no idea how to fairly compare taxes and service or even measure that.

But, I am merely a programmer and that sort of governmental financial analysis is way beyond my expertise, other than that it is evident to me that these off the cuff over simplified analyses are just not very valuable in stating the true tax burden or business climate in a state.

I would LOVE to see a broadening of the sales tax and would dance for joy if the snack tax came back. I've always loved the thought of taxing purchases of non-essentials (excluding food/housing/insurance and the like). I agree that probably many kinds of transactions the wealthier may engage in are not being taxed enough, or are escaping taxation altogether, and that the poor pay a disproportionate percentage of their income in taxes. I just have no clue how that could be fixed.

Of course, it would be fun if Maine got really creative and tried something simpler on personal wealth, say a logarithmic tax on total gain in net worth from year to year based on all assets of any type, but I doubt that would fly and would probably be easy to cheat on.

[luckyleftyme2]

19. THE POST WAS WE WERE THE HIGHEST TAXED

THAT IS FALSE-WE'RE NOT EVEN IN THE TOP 5! I'VE FOUND 5 BLOGS THE LATEST WAS WASHINGTON STATE
THAT CLAIM THEY ARE EITHER FIRST OR SECOND.THIS WAS BY THE SETTLE TIMES!
SO IF YOU LOOK HARD ENOUGH - YOU PROBABLY CAN FIND THIS-BUT I KEEP SEEING THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY INVOLVED IN MANY OF THESE ARTICLES.

[Shorebound]

21. By what measure?

Luckless may have heard something about taxes in absolute numbers, or perhaps per capita state and local taxes. Frex, New York generally gets the prize for having the highest state and local taxes per capita in absolute numbers, while Vermont has the highest total (local, state, and federal) tax burden in absolute numbers. In that ranking, Maine comes in 19th at $2,323.12 in 2005. This is according to the U.S. Census Bureau: http://www.census.gov/govs/statetax/05staxrank.html

Maine's high ranking is in tax burden as a percentage of per capita income. Even though we don't have the highest absolute tax bill, it takes the biggest chunk of our income because Maine per capita income is so low, $31,252 in 2005, according to: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104652.html

(See how easy it is to post links, Lucky?)

So it's entirely possible he heard something to the effect of Maine having a lower rank in some other measurement of tax burden and has been shouting about it as proof that the traditional Tax Foundation ranking is somehow bogus. Since he hasn't provided a link to his original source, we can't tell.

[luckyleftyme2]

24. IF YOUR A PROGRAMER

SURELY YOU CAN READ THE CHART,LIKE I SAID IN MY ORGINAL POST WE ARE FAR FROM # 1 JUST USING YOUR INFO.
TRY IT YOU'LL SEE I'M RIGHT.!

[mile53]

22. But it is YOUR post!

This is really funny. You make a post about Maine being #1 in overall tax burden - which is true based on the facts. The facts also support that Maine has had this distinction for almost 10 years.

There have been a few links posted on here with justifiable facts attributing to that notion. You provide no attribution to your post and expect us to believe what you say just because you say it and deny the post that you made.

There is some irony in the facts of the links provided by Shorebound. I am not sure that you know what I link is but I will assume that you do. One on the links shows that the per capita income of our neighbor - New Hampshire - has a per capita income within $7000 of Maine's. And, more interesting, is that Maine's per capita income is about equal to that of the national average. However, Maine's overall tax burden as a percentage of income is higher than than the rest of the country. And even more interesting is the fact the New Hampshire's overall tax burden is the lowest in the continental United States yet they live right next door to us.

Are there any areas for a reasonable discussion of those facts?

I am anticipating your CAPS-laden vitriolic reply.

[Shorebound]

20. Taxes

"But, I am merely a programmer and that sort of governmental financial analysis is way beyond my expertise, other than that it is evident to me that these off the cuff over simplified analyses are just not very valuable in stating the true tax burden or business climate in a state."

"Merely a programmer" requires a lot more math than any CPA I know of. Don't sell yourself short. I'm not sure it's accurate to call the rankings "off the cuff" or "oversimplified," since considerable effort goes into all of them, whether produced by the Tax Foundation or the Brookings Institute. The service they provide is a comparison -- it puts everyone on a level playing field, so you're comparing apples to appples. Are there better alternatives?

"I agree that probably many kinds of transactions the wealthier may engage in are not being taxed enough, or are escaping taxation altogether, and that the poor pay a disproportionate percentage of their income in taxes. I just have no clue how that could be fixed."

If we accept that low-income people pay more sales tax proportionately than the wealthy, then we have to either offset it with a tax rebate/tax break of some sort or find another source of tax revenue to replace it. I don't favor replacing it because sales tax is also paid by tourists who use Maine services without paying any other form of tax. (Gasoline tax excepted, of course.) So perhaps an increase in the personal tax exemption for low-income taxpayers is in order.

"A logarithmic tax on total gain in net worth from year to year based on all assets of any type" isn't an income tax, it's a graduated personal property tax. If someone spent all his income on non-asset expenses -- a two-month vacation to Aruba, frex -- then he would pay no tax for that year no matter how much he earned.

IOW, no easy answers for either of us. And we wonder why the tax structure is so complicated.

[luckyleftyme2]

23. VERY GOOD SHORE BOUND

AND ONCE AGAIN IN SPITE OF YOURSELF YOU'VE PROVED MY POINT! NOW LETS SEE WHERE THAT NUT ON FOX IS GETTING HIS INFO.
I FOR ONE THINK A LOT OF IT COMES FROM TWO OF HIS CRONIES. BOTH WANTED THE TABOR BILL TO PASS
AND BOTH FED MIS-INFORMATION AND CROWED LIKE TWO PROSTITUTES THAT JUST TOOK OVER THE HOT CORNER IN TOWN.
OF COURSE THEIR EGO TOOK A SLAP IN THE FACE AFTER THE VOTE WAS COUNTED! BUT THEIR BACK AT IT AGAIN,FINDING ANY PIECE OF PAPER THAT CAN SKEW THEIR ARGUMENT.
WHY I STARTED THIS POST WAS TO BRING IT TO THE WATCHERS POINT THAT IT'S ALMOST A RE-RUN OF
THE SAME OLE SPIEL OF A YEAR AGO.
YES OUR TAXES ARE HIGH,YES OUR WAGES ARE LOW,YES I DON'T LIKE IT.YES I THINK IF YOU CAN SELL A
24OZ. BOTTLE OF WATER FOR THE SAME PRICE AS YOU SELL A BOTTLE OF BEER OR SODA,YOU SHOULD PAY YOUR SHARE OF TAXES. IF THEY DON'T HAVE TO THEN WHY SHOULD THE BEER OR SOFT DRINK COMPANY.
MUCH OF BUSINESS TAXES HAVE BEEN CUT,WHILE THE TAXPAYER'S BURDEN HAS INCREASED. AND THE RESULT IS CRUSHING THE MIDDLE CLASS OUT OF EXISTENCE!

[Maine-ah]

27. wow, I actually agree with this sentence!

"MUCH OF BUSINESS TAXES HAVE BEEN CUT,WHILE THE TAXPAYER'S BURDEN HAS INCREASED. AND THE RESULT IS CRUSHING THE MIDDLE CLASS OUT OF EXISTENCE!"

I was, until recently, working for a small business, who basically the owners payed no taxes, got big refunds infact. Own a 800k (aprx) on the water, two very expensive vehicles, recieve Mainecare, claim they pay more in interest than their income ect....while the rest of us are getting a good screwing.
:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Deep Thinker]

28. Lucky, take a pill man or a drink and calm down

Where a state places in the "high taxes game" depends on the data used.

The Fox guy has his, you have yours, others have theirs.

Tax burden is the worst because it hits the hardest. It is based on ability to pay. In that regard, most credible sources rank Maine 1st or 2nd.

By the way, do you realize you reference the fox guy in almost all of your posts. Why do you hate him so much? Do you know him personally?

By the way, I agree, we do not pay the most in taxes, but the burden is undeniable.

[luckyleftyme2]

31. u base cost in effect to income

not partial but total
if you earn $100 and u pay out $10 in taxes (total of all taxes) you can't say the guy in
ga. who makes $99 and pays out $11 pays less.
thats exactly what the chart shows. ck it out.
as far as the guy on fox-i don't hate him,he can't help it if he has no mind for math.i mean after all he's either a liberal arts or a history major.(pun)
but i realize he is simply a man who has to keep his ratings up. and i listen to his show and occasionally agree with him.(not often) like his backing of the presidents plan. which the majority of us think is just more of the same.(a failed policy by poll 72% of the country thinks this)
And this lame excuse of we can't get out can be countered with only a fool would've put us there in the first place. and if he hadn't eliminated anyone who advised him not to go in,or publicly berated or tried to belittle them (powell for one);the public might have some faith in him;but never in Chaney!

[mile53]

29. Personal Exemptions

Shorebound, what good is a personal exemption for people who do not pay income taxes?

Expanding the sales tax burdens those most who can least afford it.

We already pay the highest amount of taxes in the country as a percentage of income, why increase that burden to those who might be crippled by it?

[Shorebound]

30. Mile 53

You're not saying anything I disagree with. I do not support expanding the sales tax to other goods and services unless it is linked to lowering the tax. And I don't see anything wrong with increasing the tax on certain purchases — jewelry, for example, or any vehicle costing more than $50,000 or other high-end items. We already tax meals and lodging at separate rates, so I don't see a problem expanding that concept to other goods. IOW, reconfigure the sales tax to lower the burden on low-income people and increase it for high-income people who are more able to afford it.