WTF? Stabenow voted aye on the torture bill????????

[livvy]

Had I known she would do this, I would have stepped on her foot when I met her, or perhaps sharply kicked her shin. WTF is wrong here??????
I am almost speechless.
What part of this bill didn't she get?

[CoCre8tor]

1. That's what I just heard...

I left a message at her DC office politely telling her that her vote on the bankruptcy bill hurt, but this one broke my back. She won't be getting my vote in November. If she loses, there's no pity here. :nopity:

[SharonRB]

2. Unbelievable!

I never thought either she or Carl would vote for it. I assume he didn't.

Was this to assure her more votes in November? They knew it was going to pass no matter what.

I'm not happy, but of course I'll still vote for her. I get so fed up when people refuse to vote for someone who votes the right way most of the time, but differs on occasional votes. Voting for the opposition or not voting at all doesn't help us any. We MUST get as many Dems in as possible.

:hi: livvy!

[waketheherd]

7. She is no longer a Democrat

She is a fascist appeaser. I too called her office and left her the message that she will no longer be getting my vote in November.

Levin fought hard today and voted against it. Although it would have been nice to see him alongside McCain, Warner and Graham when they were "fronting" their opposition to the bill last week.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bozita]

9. Carl voted "no" -- Here's a link to the rollcall

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00259

[TahitiNut]

26. Yes, he did. Carl Levin continues to get my support.

Even though they fell short of blocking this abomination, he stood up.

[herbbrown]

23. Would You Vote For Her

If she supported a bill that said: "All Arabs in the US must get thier trigger finger amputated, so we can protect against terror". Would you still vote for her then because she's a Democrat? I just don't get that at all.

[KalicoKitty]

39. I was disappointed in her vote, also, but she'll get my vote.

We can't lose that seat!

[last1standing]

3. She's lost my vote.

I've never been that fond of her, but this goes far beyond her repub lite voting record. This hits to the core of what it means to be a decent human being, and stabenow has failed that test.

[SharonRB]

4. So, what, you're going to vote for Bouchard?

A lot of good that will do.

[CoCre8tor]

There are options...

There are three other candidates besides Bouchard and Stabenow on the ballot. I know I'll look them over. Then there's the fourth - none of the above.
:dilemma:

You'll just have to do more recruiting of usual non-voters, Sharon.
;-)

It's one thing to vote occasionally outside "party" lines or against a voter's preferred choice. This vote, however, was a vote against the Constitution. That is much bigger. If she chooses political self-interest over the Constitution, then she's undeserving of the office.

As I said, she had my vote, even despite her Bankruptcy Bill vote. This one, however, was too important for her to put her political self interest ahead of.

[last1standing]

15. You've said it better than I did.

But that's exactly what I think. I've never liked stabenow, but I voted for her over the repub. I was even willing to vote for her again after the cruel bankruptcy bill. But torture is far more important than jobs or money or even healthcare. There's a difference between the cruelty of indifference and the cruelty of purpose. This vote takes her into the realm of purpose and I can't support that in any way.

[last1standing]

13. I won't vote for senatore this round.

As I said in another thread, I won't vote for a proponent of torture regardless of their party. Shirley Jackson had a great story called The Lottery. Is it worth a better life if you have to create it on the backs of those you've destroyed?

[vanboggie]

11. Oh I'll vote for her, but I just sent her this

I have news for you, Ms. Stabenow. Your statement about the torture bill you just voted for is wrong. "There is nothing more important than keeping America safe from those who would cause us harm."

Yes there is something more important, and that is American freedom and our rights at citizens. You've just undermined both. Your Bankruptcy Bill AYE vote was another major move on your part to the dark side.

I will vote for you, but only to boost Democratic numbers. My hope is that your colleagues in the House and Senate who are truly working to save the principles this country was based on from those who have hijacked it will be in the majority so they can put the neocons in prison where they belong.

Diebold, ES&S, and Sequoia unfortunately will likely keep the reign of the criminals going.

I am just so disappointed that you could vote for something as insideous to our society as torture.


Edited for freeptard spelling - unfortunately Debbie already has her copy. x(

[last1standing]

14. I'm not here to talk anyone out of voting Dem.

I just needed to make a statement about the way I'm going to vote based on my conscience. I have no doubt that the repub would have voted for this but then I wouldn't have voted for him, either.

[vanboggie]

16. I totally understand

Amazing that at each point we think it can't get any worse, it does.

[UrbScotty]

17. Why vote for George W. Bouchard? (nt)

[TahitiNut]

25. She lost mine, too. She obviously thinks she's getting other votes ...

... that are worth more than mine. The whole notion that a so-called 'progressive' candidate can move as far to the right as they want as long as they stay 2mm to the left of their opponent is, as far as I'm concerned, an abomination. It's like a wife or husband who thinks they can fuck around as much as they want as long as they sleep at home once a week.

I called her office and made absolutely certain, in very CIVIL and REASONABLE terms, that they understood that the vote on torture and elimination of habeas corpus was a 'defining moment' ... that I wanted a filibuster and, lacking that, denial of "unanimous consent" from the Democrats. I can't be certain, but I'm pretty sure I heard her staffer stifle a laugh. Well, FUCK HIM AND THE WHORES he rode in on! He might as well have told me he didn't give a flying fuck what I thought!

[jbnow]

29. I liked her when she was in Michigan

But what the hell happened? She is so far ahead in the polls, she didn't have to fear losing for being called "weak on terror". What was she thinking?

I won't ask. I have before...for instance on the bankruptcy bill. I hated that she voted for it but wanted to hear what her thinking was, I got back essentially a form letter that everyone who asked about that vote got, all the same but our names. Something about being in favor of personal responsibility. OK Deb, so Levin is against personal responsibility?

This one...I'm sure she'd say we have to continue the program or have trials or some crap, no real answers. There is no good answer for this vote. Plus what can I say...in 6 years I will support your primary opponent and you won't get any more of my big $10 or $20 contributions? That will scare her.

At least she has truth in advertising. Notice how all her ads say how she reaches across party lines? She sure does play nice with republicans, too bad she doesn't care more about America or the constitution or what is right and just.

[skipos]

32. Kick ass! Bringing the successful strategies of Nader 2000 to Michigan!

:woohoo:

[last1standing]

35. Torture! Bringing the successful strategies of Torquemada to Michigan!

:woohoo:

[skipos]

36. Unfortunately, that strategy has already been implemented, so now it is

up to you wether you want Stabenow or Bouchard, wether you want to be one step closer to a Democratic majority or one step deeper into a Republican majority. Wether you want more Democrats on committee chairs, or you want more Republicans. Wether you want committees to be headed by Democrats or Republicans.

Even with her bad votes, Michigan and America will be better off with Stabenow, worse off with Bouchard.

[SharonRB]

40. Thank you for being a voice of reason.

[last1standing]

42. So I suppose I'm the voice of hysterics, then.

I'm good with that if that's how you want to see me, but I'd try to use a different tact than that when dealing with others if you want to gain votes for the rest of the Dems in Michigan. I'll vote for Granholm, Kilpatrick, and the rest of the Democratic ticket regardless of your views of me. Others might not be so difficult to turn away.

[last1standing]

41. Life just isn't black and white like that.

It's really not a question of which one of these two monsters is a little less cruel. It's a question of whether I can sleep at night after lending my support to a torturer. That's my reality, if yours is different that's fine, I'm not judging you or asking you not to vote for stabenow. Please extend the same courtesy.

[skipos]

43. "It's a question of whether I can sleep at night after lending my support"

"to a torturer." And for me, I could never sleep at night knowing I missed an opportunity to help elect the better candidate for Michigan, the better candidate for America, a Democratic majority and all the benefits that come with it. Wether it be Nelson instead of Ricketts or Whitehouse instead of Chafee, there is no senate or house race where the (D) isn't better than the (R). This country is going down the toilet, and the less Republicans there are in power the better off everyone will be, that's a fact. I couldn't live with myself if I sat on my hands and let America get subjected to another Republican Senator. But hey, that's me.

If I went to a Kerry08.com forum and talked about how Kerry sucked and how I wasn't going to vote for him, I'd expect to piss off a lot of posters. You shouldn't be surprised when you come to DEMOCRATICunderground.com and talk about how you aren't going to vote for the DEMOCRAT, posters get pissed.

[last1standing]

44. That's where the confusion lies.

I think of it as DEMOCRATICunderground as in democratic ideals that don't include torture, you think of it as DEMOCRATicunderground which means that no matter what we have to march in lockstep to the party - right or wrong. I'm not doubting for a second that stabenow is better than her opponent or any of the other comparisons you made. I have also gone out of my way to tell others that I'm not trying to stop them from voting for her. What I am saying is that I won't support a proponent of torture, period. That's it. There'll be no change of mind, and I'm not going to let you railroad me into silence just because you think party is more important than principle.

If Stalin was running as a Dem for senator for Michigan against Hitler as the repub, would you vote for Stalin just because he had a (D) after his name? I know my answer, and yes it is the same kind of choice to me.

I've supported Dems for 20 years now without fail. I've donated, I've phonebanked, I've walked door to door, so please don't try to question my support for the party. But I'll be Damned if I'll pull the lever for a proponent of torture under any circumstance. It just isn't going to happen. So my opinion is that you should do what you need to do on election day to make sure you can sleep well at night, and I'll do the same. Until that time, don't try to bully me out of expressing my opinions here because they're just as valid and just as democratic as yours.

[Purveyor]

5. From the Stabenow website:

Stabenow Statement on Senate Passage of

Military Commissions Act


WASHINGTON – U.S. Senator Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) today made the following statement regarding the Senate’s passage of the Military Commissions Act:

“There is nothing more important than keeping America safe from those who would cause us harm. It is critical that we have a system in place to handle enemy combatants in the war on terror and bring them to justice, which is why I supported this legislation. If we had not passed this bill, our military would not have been able to move forward with trials against suspected terrorists now in U.S. custody. I voted for a number of amendments that would have strengthened this bill, and I will continue to work with my colleagues to make these improvements. ”


http://www.senate.gov/~stabenow/press/2006/092806StabenowStatementonSenatePassageofMilitaryCommissionsAct.htm


I just blasted an email to her and NO, she will not receive my vote again come Nov.

[bfealk]

6. I called, e-mailed and left a message on Michigan Liberal

I don't know what else to do. I'm so thoroughly disgusted with her right now.

[Bozita]

8. Michigan's Joe Lieberwoman - Yes on Bankruptcy, Yes on Torture

NO on Stabenow.

[vanboggie]

10. I totally agree

That was my first thought when I saw the heading on this thread, but you beat me to it.

[Purveyor]

27. Thanks for the bankruptcy reminder. n/t

[Bozita]

12. Question : She holds a leadership position. Did her vote open the door?

I'm so pissed I can't even type.

Some fucking leader!

[livvy]

18. I will still vote for her, because she is a Dem, and we need to take....

back the Senate. It will not be the most heart-felt vote, however, and it is frustrating to have to make that choice. It would be great if we could find someone more dependably liberal for the next round to challenge her in the primary.
I am very disappointed with her decision on this one. I just don't follow her line of thinking.
Jeesh, time for another damn letter.
Dear Senator Stabenow,......

[herbbrown]

19. I just called

I'll vote Green. There is no way I can vote for this behavior, it's a character thing, of which she has shown me loud and clear that she has none.

[dad]

21. moved here recently

It was certainly shocking discover that I now live in a state with not one but TWO Dem Senators after living in the South for years. Ha ha. I practically forgot we still were allowed to have elected Dems. Yesterday I saw the roll call on the torture bill and saw that one MI Senator came down on the correct side of this issue and one did not (sigh). Different name, more of the same.

[bif]

22. I may have to look at the Green candidate

This just pisses me off. Someone got it right when they said she's Michigan's Lieberman.

[skipos]

33. Kick ass! Greens really helped out America in 2000!

It sucks that they won't be able to help Santorum win in PA, but at least they can help Bouchard in MI and Lieberman in CT! Split the vote!
:woohoo:

[Strawman]

24. Her poll workers ought to hand out clothes pins with her name on them

She's a finger in the wind politician. If Dems take over the Senate, the wind might change a little bit for the better, so she gets my vote. But that's all it is. I never want to go to a party to meet her, hear some canned stump speech about how great she is, give her my hard earned money, etc. etc.. It is what it is with her. A marriage of convenience, making the best out of a bunch of lousy options.

[Stepup2]

28. I'll vote for her BUT

I did email her and tell her what I thought of this. Levin voted against it as far as I know. It seems like she is trying to play to both sides instead of doing the right thing imo...

[placton]

30. Vote for Debbie is vote for Hitler

That is just the way it is.  In the movie JUDGMENT AT
NUREMBURG, Burt Lancaster plays a German judge on trial.  He
tells Spencer Tracy's character he thought he was doing what
the people wanted, and begs for forgiveness.  Tracy declines.

Anyone who supports a person who votes for torture is turning
the same blind eye Germans did for Hitler.  It's just that
simple.

[skipos]

34. Bouchard is worse. It is just that simple.

[TahitiNut]

37. "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists!!"

:eyes: Gee, where have I heard that before??


:puke:

[skipos]

38. What?

I hope you are joking, but that is laughable comparison. It is an election, there are going to one of two people winning, no ifs ands or buts. We are either going to get a Stabenow win, which would help obtain a Democratic majority, which would help give more power to all senate Democrats, which would get more Democrats on committees and more Democrats heading committees. OR we are going to get Bouchard, which would help strengthen the Republican majority, which would help give more power to all senate Republicans, which would get more Republicans on committees and more Republicans heading committees. Take your pick what you would prefer.

I suppose there are people who are delusional enough to think that, like Gore vs. Bush, there is "no difference" between a Stabenow win and Bouchard win, a Democratic majority and a Republican majority, committees headed by John Conyers or some Republican, etc. But then again about 10% of America think Bush is "liberal." There are a lot of underinformed people out there and facts aren't going to change their minds.

[knitter4democracy]

31. I'm calling and will get a real answer.

I am just sick about this. See, she was my state rep when I was growing up and then my state senator. I've met her before, even played Equations against one of her sons in middle school. I've often privately thought that she was an airhead (this is from way back, from before my dad went Republican, even), but this takes the cake.

How can we work to get her elected when she votes to violate and destroy the Constitution she swore to uphold?

[PassingFair]

45. Three letters.

D-L-C

She is beholden to the Corporatists.

She DOES WHAT SHE IS TOLD, WHEN SHE IS TOLD.

[ScreamingMeemie]

46. The part where she was threatened by the GOP...

:grr: I can't stand looking at her anymore.