ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

[galledgoblin]

I'm furious but not surprised by this latest nonsense coming from our capital.

I want to hear your ideas and opinions on how to fix things.

this thread is for solutions for our troubled state.

[galledgoblin]

1. I'll start: we need to end the Upstate/Downstate divide

NYC is an island that needs a hinterland to support it. it could get by on it's own, but the cost of living would increase even more.

Upstate relies on downstate money to keep itself even this little bit afloat.

we need to get over this resentment between regions and start working together. it's silly and it keeps any real reform from taking place.

[peanut]

3. Downstate relies on upstate utterly

For the one resource that can't be bought, altho downstate sure tries: WATER. We supply nine billion gallons of water a day to downstate. Meanwhile, downstate has $300 million dollars to buy our land, take it off the map, and drive up our property values. They would LOVE to depopulate the watershed, and given all the restrictions we have to live with, they are well on their way. $300 million buys a LOT of land up here, and then, NYC lawyers fight the tax assessments, leaving upstaters to pay ever higher property taxes for the privilege of supplying the city's water.
And I'm a former CITY person, so don't think i'm just a disgruntled redneck. So don't think for a HEARTBEAT that NYC "could get by on its own." it sure as hell can't function without water. You guys rely on US -- not the other way around.

[clear eye]

5. No, not "redneck", just someone who only drinks Perrier since you don't think you need clean water.

And I suppose that you want the dairy farms and apple orchards to use polluted water. There are lots of reasons property taxes rise, not the least of which is corruption on the less-monitored county level. Also localities are struggling to pay for services which used to be partially subsidized by federal programs no longer available since the looting of the federal Treasury begun under Bush. How about the banks not having to pay property taxes on all the houses they foreclosed on?

But nevermind watching the real villains, I guess what we need to do is blame those who work to ensure that the whole state has clean water.

[galledgoblin]

7. theoretically the City could continue to import from the surrounding region

but it'd have to pay higher prices for everything. NYC is expensive enough as is, I don't know how poorer downstaters would get by without upstate to support it.

[clear eye]

9. As long as you're phrasing things as who "supports" whom

you're fanning the flames of discord between up- and downstate. We all rely on the same aquifers, need to get the same pro-people programs through our state gov't, and more. On the one hand downstate revenues reduce property taxes by partly subsidizing upstate schools, on the other aquifer easements motivated mostly by downstaters prevent some development which would pay an unknown amount more in taxes. It probably comes out in the wash, and deciding which area comes out ahead is unknowable speculation. Thing is we're not "supporting" or "draining" each other; we're all one state that survives or dies as one. It's only corrupt politicians who gain by distracting us with their encouragement to blame each other for economic woes.

[galledgoblin]

10. I agree, I'm just used to framing the discussion that way

when I try to adjust the language of the arguement, people from both regions who dislike the idea of working together kind of stuff their fingers in their ears and scream LALALALALALA.

[clear eye]

4. Not true.

Please check your numbers. Downstate supports upstate w/taxes, especially for schools. NYC provides a much larger % of funding for education in the state than they get back in school support. The wealth of the state is predominately downstate, so it can be said that this is acceptable, but don't stand reality on its head by using the opposite as a given. Many education reformers downstate have complained for years that the poor physical condition of schools in NYC is a direct result of the upstate drain on tax revenues collected downstate.

This thread is completely useless if it's not fact-based. The Republicans have been using the lie about NYC costing upstaters for years to retain their upstate base of support. Pity you've been taken in. And you're certainly not going to end animosity between the state's two parts by libeling one of them.

[galledgoblin]

6. ? er, I said "Upstate relies on downstate money to keep itself even this little bit afloat."

I never said downstate is a drain on upstate...

[clear eye]

8. I was responding to "downstate needs a hinterland to support it"

Sorry if I misunderstood. I'm so used to hearing opposite claims by upstaters. It is nice when NYers, especially progressives, focus on common interests instead of petty disputes.

[orpupilofnature57]

2. Has KKKARL Moved to New York recently?

[Name removed]

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