Differences between upstate/donwstate

[I_like_chicken]

Im from the Albany area, and I go to school at Binghamton Univ. over half the kids from this school are from the NYC area or long Island, and I noticed there seems to be a distinct cultural difference. Downstaters act differently, talk differently, and look differently. Its almost as if upstate and downstate are two different states. The only thing that holds us together is the fact that we're from New York state. Why are there differences?? I consider downstate Rockland County and down. Ya'know ive never met anyone I liked from Rockland, it should probably be sunk into the lower depths of the earth. J/K.

ps Pataki is a douche!!

[aquart]

1. You're the one noticing the differences. What are they?

What do you see?

Where are the people from? How long have they been there? When you order takeout, what are your choices?

How many different languages do you hear in a day? What's the most shocking thing you ever saw?

[49jim]

2. I lived in Upstate NY

for 35 years...originally from LI. My would call me in May and ask if it was snowing. She thought that anything north of Kingston was the Artic Circle.

[trogdor]

4. You'd think that.

It's friggin' cold up here in Utica/Rome in winter. You want to REALLY see brutal cold weather, though, try the Watertown area.

[OneBlueSky]

3. dude . . . I'M from Rockland . . .

and it ain't a bad place . . . at least parts of it, anyhow . . . and there are a lot of good progressives and liberals around, though I must admit we're outnumbered these days . . . I've been to Binghampton, and if I hadn't been to Troy, I'd probably say it was the ugliest city in the state . . . no offense . . . :)

[tsakshaug]

5. always confused

Being a transplant to NY, I am always confused as to what is "upstate" some claim anything north of Penn, others say nothing west of Syracuse is considered upstate.

What do you consider upstate?

[djg21]

18. They have "summerteeth" upstate . . .

you know, some are in, and some are out!

[lapislzi]

21. I'd like to offer you the opportunity

to clarify that remark. I found it disturbing. What is your point regarding teeth?

FYI, I live upstate and I am missing two teeth.

[mdmc]

30. his point

is upstate is full of hicks. NYC is full of people that think that they are the center of the universe. Long Island is full of contemp for upstate, coupled with city envy. Some Islanders think that the island, not NYC, is the center of the universe.

So silly.

What I find disturbing is when 'downstaters' dont leave that anti upstate attitude when they move up upstate. They sit around and gripe about how much better the island or NYC is. If it is so great, then why did you leave?

[lapislzi]

33. I've lived in several places in the state

including NYC, Long Island, and upstate (where I am now). I wouldn't go back to LI if you paid me, sorry. The stinky flat sprawl is just more than I can handle. The LI I grew up on was a more pleasant place, but the seeds of slummery had already begun to sprout.

But you're right; that's not the point, and I know that. Large, densely populated states all have this problem. How to address the needs and concerns of all New Yorkers? Good question.

[djg21]

36. My point was . . .

that I can laugh at the silly stereotypes, and as an upstater, can poke fun at myself (though I do have my teeth). BTW, my wife is from the Plattsburg area, and she refers to her home as being above the "gum-line."

I knew plenty of "hicks" in NYC -- folks who have never ventured beyond the five boroughs. I also know plenty of sophisticated folks in upstate.

That being said, there are lots of folks in the northermost regions of NY, who are poor, undereducated and underemployed. Nevertheless, for reasons I cannot understand, they remain virulently Republican, despite the fact that the Republican party has never done anything to improve their lives. It is truly mindboggling!

[mdmc]

29. north of the bronx ... is upstate. lower hudson valley ...

is where I'm from.

[iwantmycountryback]

47. Where in the Hudson Valley are you from?

I was born in Poughkeepsie and live in Beacon. I also lived an Albany suburb for a few years. As someone mentioned earlier, Troy is a pretty ugly city as well as Schenectady and Rensellaer. I prefer it much more down here, I don't really think of this part of the state as "upstate" I suppose. Albany is definitely upstate though.

[Slickriddles]

37. Subway

I've always thought if you can't get there on the Subway it's upstate!!

[Rhiannon12866]

38. If you can get there by Subway, then you're in NYC.

Those of us who live in Upstate New York rather resent those who consider Westchester County to be Upstate New York. I live closer to Canada than NYC. This is the real Upstate New York.:-)

Welcome to DU, Slickriddles! It's great to have another New Yorker among us, even if you do come from Downstate, LOL!:hi:

[tk2kewl]

39. if you in NYC or on LI

upstate is north of westchester

[oneighty]

6. I am from and in Western NY

we are almost Pennsylvanians. It is a very conservative area(sort of) New York City is generally hated because all of our tax money goes there to support welfare people and so on. Western New York State is a strange place.

IMHO.

[Beetwasher]

8. Uhh, Hate to Break it to You

But the lions share of taxes for ALL of NY comes FROM NYC...IOW, NYC pretty much subsidizes every other part of the state. It's our tax dollars that are going to YOU.

[oneighty]

9. Yes! I know that Beetwasher.

I should have made that clear. I was the Democrat's candidate in my district for the N.Y. State Senate years ago. Telling the people here that N.Y. City (sort of) supported us was a hard sell then and it still is.

180

[Beetwasher]

10. Cool!

Yeah, I used to get into arguments w/ upstaters when I was in college (Binghamton) who used to give me that "we don't like our taxes paying for your welfare queens" stuff and it always pissed me off! Sorry if I seemed a bit harsh, just a reaction left over from the old days I guess. ;-)

[oneighty]

11. Hey Beetwasher

I know from your posts you are not 'harsh' No problem. I was employed at SUNY Buffalo at the time. Arthur Goldberg ran against Rockefeller. We were a losing ticket, sacrificial lambs, but darn it was fun, an education!

180

[Beetwasher]

14. Sounds Like a Great Experience!

n/t

[itzamirakul]

41. Sorry, Oneighty!

I should have read this post before typing out my lengthy diatribe.

Apologies...:)

[ElsewheresDaughter]

12. beetwasher NYC pays 0 dollars for school taxes..us "upstaters" pay

for all of NYC's schools...NYC property owners have NO school tax the rest of the state pays for NYC schools...that's a fact

[Beetwasher]

13. Schools are Paid for w/ Property Taxes

unless you have a link that says otherwise. :shrug:

Not sure where you get that "fact" from, but I'd like to see a source...NYers do pay property taxes and that's where the schools get their funds from...

[ElsewheresDaughter]

15. beetwasher.....property taxes are separate from school taxes in upstate NY

for that matter ALL of NY except NYC...why is that?

[oneighty]

17. Gee. I just did a google

N.Y. City property owners pays a school tax based on property same as I do. Property owners there are afforded the STAR school tax exemption same as I have. I think perhaps you might have some bad information.

I think that Buffalo has a different system wherein the schools are supported with general funds and the amount of funding is determined by City Government.

180

[lapislzi]

20. Right...I get two tax bills

The "property" tax bill is actually the Town Tax--for garbage collection, snow plowing, etc. It's the smaller of the two bills, and it comes in January.

The school taxes (about 3x the town taxes) are due in September.

[newyorican]

27. That's not true...

and it's so easy to find the facts in the matter it makes one wonder.

I do not live in NYC and my property taxes pay for the schools.

[mdmc]

31. newburgh, ny school tax is part of property tax

Meaning if you avoid owning real estate, you avoid school taxes. This is state wide.

[bettyellen]

60. sweetie, the city has been in court trying to get it's fair share from the

state for years. nyc schools are underfunded because the state formula screws them.
look it up.

[mdmc]

32. nyc renters don't pay ... property owners pay

and then recoup their money from their tenents.

[bettyellen]

61. New York City students represent 37 percent of the state total,

..... but the city’s schools receive only 34 percent of state education aid.

even taking into account expenses in the city are higher- that is wrong to do to kids. now that's a fact.
but with people believing the ignorant total nonsense you posted it's no wonder they want to deny NYers their fare share. We should secede and let y'all sink in to the poverty you'd be in if we weren't subsidizing your sorry, illinformed butts.


"The suit hinges on an interpretation of the New York State Constitution, which obliges the state to provide “a sound, basic education” to all children. A 1995 Court of Appeals decision had defined a sound education as one that enabled students to “function productively as civic participants capable of voting and serving on a jury.”

The lower court had concluded that the present appalling conditions in New York City schools—with tens of thousands of new, untrained and underpaid teachers, shocking overcrowding leading to huge class sizes and classes that must be held in former bathrooms, inadequate and outmoded computers and the shortage of the most basic supplies, and crumbling school buildings themselves—did not meet this standard."

we pay more, and get less from a resentful and ill informed upstate.

[itzamirakul]

40. Gosh, Oneighty!

That's a pretty "red" stater opinion...I mean the one about welfare. Do you have any actual figures to back up your statement? Are there any welfare recipients in YOUR area of the state?

I think this Rush Limbaugh kind of hate talk is what glued the red states together. There is some kind of jealousy or something going on that somehow makes an enormous number of people think that folks in the blue states are getting a free ride on the backs of red state citizens' taxes, when in reality it is THEY, the red staters, who are recieving the greatest amount of subsidies. Somehow, these "red" minded folks think that even if you are poor, if you live in NYC, you are somehow living a better life than they are. What they fail to realize is that there are people who live in one of the boroughs and who have never even been to midtown Manhattan - a subway ride away.

People are quick to say, "Get a job," when in reality there are few if any jobs to be had. Over half of the black men in New York are unemployed and there are no jobs. So where are they to go? Are there any jobs in YOUR area that they could have? And everyday, new immigrants both legal and illegal arrive in the city and they, too need employment. It is both a problem and a dilemna. Most people are not on welfare out of choice. A welfare check does not pay the outrageous rent in New York City.

[oneighty]

57. Oh!

This is the "Rant" you speak of.

I am a strong believer in the welfare program. Of course there are welfare people here in Chautauqua County.

Local Republicans have always used "NEW YORK CITY" welfare as something to hate and vote against-a tool.

Peace.

180

[bettyellen]

59. us city folk are supporting your upstate asses.

always have. god, they don't even know math upstate.

- proud (and generous) city girl

[Beetwasher]

7. I'm From Rockland and I Went to Binghamton

W/ an attitude like that, I'd be surprised if you have any friends, from upstate or downstate...

[I_like_chicken]

16. did u notice the

J/k after that sentence. Rockland county is fine, guess ive just had some bad expriences.

[LuLu550]

19. OK, Here are some answers

First, I was raised on Long Island, I've lived in the Albany area for almost 30 years.

Upstate/Downstate: When you are from "downstate," "upstate" is anything north of Westchester. When you are from the "upstate" anything south of Poughkeepsie is "downstate."


School taxes: And I work for a school, so I know this.
There are two main funding streams that pay for schools; state aid and local pretty taxes. Everyone pays local property taxes, but the percentages of how much of the total revenue you get in state aid depends on the "wealth factor" of the locality. Wealth factor takes into consideration income and assessed value of the school district.

In district where there is high income, high assessed value and lots of commercial property, state aid can be very low. Up here, South Colonie School district gets only 22% state aid because it has lots of stores.

The school I work for in more rural and our state aid is 40%.

The issue is not how much local property tax is paid, but how much state aid is shifted to a locality. The more state aid, the less local property owners have to pay in tax.

Questions?

[Nite Owl]

22. Hi LuLu

I'm from LI too only I lived there for over 30 years and moved up here recently. As far as the taxes I'm paying less than a third of what I was paying on LI here in Halfmoon. I don't have any idea what the state aid is or was just glad to not be paying so much.

[LuLu550]

23. Hi, Nite Owl

The deal with state aid and local taxes is this, the less the state gives your school district, the higher your school taxes are. Halfmoon isn't too bad, that's Shenendahowa, right? They have a ton of commercial properties and that keep taxes on homes low. Where I am we have little commercial property so taxes on homes is very high.

[Nite Owl]

24. Hi Lulu

Yes we got everything here. Shoppers heaven and tell me why do we need one more fast food place? But there building them. lol
We had the same places on LI too though and no where on the Island were taxes lower. I just don't know what they did with it either. It's not like the place was clean or they cleaned the streets after it snowed. Everything was a problem. I have to get into checking out the local numbers. It' so Repuke here. Last election the town council guy stopped by and he was Repuke. I told him I never vote R and he told me who the Dem candidate was and I looked him up, he was a very conservative Dem. No one seems to be Freeperish though just quiet conservative types. See what happens in the Fall when we have Kerry over everything.

[Rhiannon12866]

25. Ages ago, I used to listen to a radio talk show

and this guy always used to call in, suggesting that NYC secede and form its own state. When I was a teenager, I worked at the Great Escape summers, and was just appalled at the behavior of the large number of downstaters who visited there. They were abusive and bullying to us kids, especially me! Yes, I agree that there is a distinct cultural difference, though after 9/11 I guess it isn't PC to say so.:shrug:

[Lavender Brown]

34. You worked at the Great Escape?

That was my dream job when I was little. We called it "Storytown". Haven't been in ages.

[Rhiannon12866]

35. Yes, I sure did. For six summers

I was Cinderella and ran the purple train that ran through "the jungle." It was Storytown when I worked there, as well. You should have worked there. I just loved it.
:loveya:

[name not needed]

26. I think downstate is much more similar to NJ.

Its the same area, same people, but different state.

[MamaBear]

28. Raised Upstate/Live Downstate

I was raised in Broome County (Endicott, mostly) and have lived in the downstate area since 1982, and in NYC since 1986.

Endicott was a town of about 30,000 at most, and we thought that people were different if they were Catholic not Protestant or their folks came from Italy or Poland instead of Ireland or England.

In NYC, it's easier just to see that none of us are very different at all.

In Endicott, it seemed like we had more time, so people tended to wait for each other, and wait more patiently in line at the store and such. In NYC, patience seems to be taken as an indication that you've got nothing in particular to do and you don't mind waiting for EVERYBODY.

In Endicott, almost everybody spoke English all the time except for the older folks living on the "North Side" (aka the "Knob"), who spoke Italian, or Polish or sometimes Greek. In NYC, well, that's not really the case.

Living upstate (back in the "Good Old Days," anyway) was like driving down a country road in light traffic: you could hurry or you could dawdle, it just didn't seem to matter all that much because you had some room. Here in the city, you don't have that much personal space, so you have to be much more aware of what's going on around you, because whatever you do could impact on somebody else.

Both are great, but I'm glad now I'm here, and I understand things back home have changed a lot. Different isn't always better -- or worse.

And keep your knees together on the d*** train!

[animuscitizen]

42. The thing that unites NY people is that we are all humans...

with strengths and weaknesses, personality quirks, positive and negative attributes.

As a New York State gypsy of sorts, I feel I can comment on this with some perspective. I have lived in Dutchess County, Westchester County, Rockland County, spent summers in the Adirondacks as a kid, attended undergraduate college at SUNY Binghamton, attended graduate school at Columbia University in Manhattan. I currently live in Woodstock, NY (Ulster County, Catskills region).

It seems that the pressure filled, hustle and bustle pace of the downstate region can create a more anxious, stressed out personality. People live crammed together. The air quality and traffic can be horrendous. The race for the dollar seems evident.

When the city and its suburbs (Westchester, Rockland, and LI) are compared to upstate areas, the relaxed feel of upstate and (sometimes)the people is glaringly obvious. Upstate, more people can afford homes and property. It is easier to breathe--both literally and emotionally. Many people upstate are more connected with nature on a daily basis--through outdoor sports, farming, gardening, walking and hiking, etc.

Yet downstate NY is overflowing with economic opportunity, cultural and ethnic diversity, fabulous entertainment, restaurants, and top notch services--all at one's fingertips.

On the downside, many upstate areas offer decreased conveniences, less diversity, more isolation, and more economic hardship. Binghamton is a glaring example of an economically depressed, upstate city. Most of my friends in that area struggle to make ends meet. Some of them have never visited NY City! On a cultural note, Terry Randall, the founder of the nutty organization Operation Rescue, lives and broadcasts his Christian extremist radio station from a town that borders Binghamton. That type of ultra conservative, isolationist mentality is not hard to find in upstate NY. It is actually quite similar to the nutty ramblings of the extremists form the "red" states. Downstate New Yorkers tend to be more open minded on the issues--and tend to vote accordingly. I believe this is due, in part, to less isolation and more exposure to cultural diversity.

I have met exceptional people from throughout NY State, despite these cultural differences. The differences make people and places more interesting.

PS: Don't hate Rockland or its residents until you have spent time in Nyack. It is a great town.

[newyawker99]

43. I totally agree animuscitizen...

The thing that unites NY people is that we are all humans...
with strengths and weaknesses, personality quirks, positive and negative attributes.

I hate threads that bash different parts
of the country or in this case different
parts of the State. Guys, we all live here
and there is no big difference between us.
We all try to provide a comfortable environment
for our loved ones, we all worry about our jobs
and what the future will bring. We all
worry about what 4 more years of Shrubco will
do to us.

There is a song that says "accentuate the
positive and eliminate the negative." When
talking about Upstaters vs Downstaters I
think this is good advice. :-)

[partisan to truth]

44. so confused as to what the definition of upstate and downstate is

considering binghamton's on the southern border of NY (with PA) and yet it's considered upstate?

[orpupilofnature57]

45. I always thought it was Poughkeepsie,wifes from suffern I'm from stixopia

We've always loved the difference.I wouldn't of had the facilities anywhere else in the country,i have to remind my friends when they bitch, where all the money goes,THE SAME PLACE it came from.God bless the empire state!

[Historic NY]

46. Orange County was always looked at as being a bunch of hicks.

But sadly now its over flowing with Ny city residents that want a piece of the action. Sadly the life they want is slipping away as more and more houses & condos are built. Presently its one of the fastest growing counties north of NY City. The crop of new housing in my town has made it more difficult for home grown locals to actually afford to buy a new residence or to live here. The cheapest new construction here starts at $379000 and goes up through 7 figures. I am hoping the boom bursts soon since its driving up taxes and congesting local roads. As someone once said it ain't Kansas any more.

[mtnsnake]

48. I'm up near the Canadian border. Downstate to me is Lake Placid

I live so far north that the Adirondacks are south of me. Cold country. Just hiked a mountain yesterday near Lake Placid and we had to wear crampons because the trail was so icy.

[Rhiannon12866]

49. I'm way upstate, as well, but not so far north as you are!

But I used to live in Essex County, so hear where you're coming from. Too many people think that New York is just NYC. I'm closer to the Canadian border, as well. Stay warm. I'm also in the snow belt.:-(

on edit: Welcome to DU, mtnsnake! It's great to have another northern New yorker with us! Where are your snakes, anyway? My Dad used to talk about finding rattlesnakes on Tongue Mountain, on the way to Ticonderoga.:hi:

[mtnsnake]

50. LOL, my pet snakes are now a memory, but they're still the

most intriguing animal around. When I was younger, I raised everything from local garter snakes and black snakes to a red-tailed boa from South America that I raised from a tiny baby into a 7 1/2' beauty. Gorgeous animal she was! My main passion these days is hiking in the Adirondacks. Thus, the handle mtnsnake.

If you're in the snowbelt I'm thinking of, the famous one along 81, I've experienced it all too often on my trips downstate. It's unbelievable how you can be driving along during the winter on a cold clear day on Rt 81, and if the wind is blowing from any of the westerly directions, you're liable to run into a vicious whiteout just by driving through that area. Then after about a half hour of the most treacherous driving imagineable, you drive back out of it.

Thanks for the welcome, BTW, Rhiannon :)

[Rhiannon12866]

51. So the snakes you refer to were pets. Wow.

The snakes that my Dad used to talk about were wild rattlesnakes that populated Tongue Mountain. Having pet snakes is not unusual on DU and there are several snake owners that I've encountered here. I don't dislike snakes, but the closest I've come was an Eastern Painted Turtle, that I had for a pet as a kid. My Dad's friend picked it up on that same stretch of road because he was afraid it would be run over. We eventually released her/him in Yaddo, in a stream located in the woods of a protected artists' colony in Saratoga Springs, NY. The turtle seemed very pleased to be there.:-)

The route I think I'm talking about is 9N, though I'm not sure, never having driven it. I now live a little further downstate, but traveled this many times to Ticonderoga, as a kid, with my Dad, and often got carsick, LOL! But I've experienced the sudden whiteouts, which suddenly disappear. I hate driving in the North Country in winter.:-(

It's great to have another Northern New Yorker with us, and another snake lover. I think you'll be at home here. And you're most welcome!:hi:

[mtnsnake]

52. Funny you say that about turtles

They were my other passion when I was a kid growing up in the Hudson Valley.

I can relate to the turtle-crossing thing, too, like what you were talking about. To this day, whenever I see a turtle creeping across a country road up here, I'll get out and cross it. Snapping turtles are always fun to cross. Those you never want to pick up by the shell; you have to pick them up by the tail and walk them across, holding them a distance away from your leg as you walk, lol. I read in a book a long time ago that that's the only way to safely pick a snapper up, and it's not supposed to hurt them. So far I've never had a problem doing it that way.

[Rhiannon12866]

56. Thanks for the advice! I have dealt with many snapping turtles,

but never knew that! When I was still at school, I worked at The Great Escape, which you have probably heard of or visited. They had a big problem with snapping turtles in that nasty little stream where they run the Swan Boats, which I drove, before being promoted to being Cinderella and driving the train, LOL! But they were very afraid of the snapping turtles injuring customers, even though we told each and every one of them to keep their hands out of the water, so planned to have their bogus sheriff shoot them, I kid you not! I made a big fuss about this, and phoned my Dad. My boss liked me, so boxed up every turtle that they caught and my Dad and I took them all to a colony that he knew of on Paradise Lake and released them. I just wish that knew then the best way of picking them up, but I never had a problem. Thanks!:D

[A Simple Game]

53. mtnsnake, I'm north of the Adirondacks too.

I'm in central St. Lawrence County 30 miles from the St. Lawrence River and 5 miles north of the northern edge of the Adirondack Park. Not as much snow as the snow belt with it's lake effect snows, but I have seen 42 below zero on my thermometer!

[LosinIt]

54. Let me guess, Gouverneur??

My mom lives on Wall street.

[A Simple Game]

55. No, but you are close.

I live in the sticks, about half way between Gouverneur and Canton south of route 11 .

[LosinIt]

58. Dekalb Junction??

Went to college at Canton ATC. We used to go to White's Bar on a Friday night to grab a pool table because you could never get one in Canton. It was always a lot of fun because the old guys in the bar would get a kick out of me (I'm a chick) and my guy friends driving down from Canton and playing pool all night.

[autorank]

62. Difference between "Top Hat" and "Night of the Living Dead"

I liked them both but Manhattan is the center of the universe. Queens, the Bronx, Brooklyn, and that island thing all get a free ride as the greatest city in the universe and beyond...but it's all about Manhattan, the glorious island that is the envy of the entire world.

That's just my opinion after living there for 10 years but, hey, what do I know?