It Turns Out That Barack Waffled On NAFTA As Well

[Danzo]

"THE FACTS:

Obama has been consistently ambivalent.

In his 2004 Senate campaign, he said the U.S. should pursue more deals such as NAFTA, and argued more broadly that his opponent's call for tariffs would spark a trade war. AP reported then that Obama had spoken of enormous benefits having accrued to his state from NAFTA, while adding that he also called for more aggressive trade protections for U.S. workers.

"We need free trade but also fair trade," he said, taking the dodge."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080227/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_trade

[geiger]

1. that you think that is a dodge is so laughable, it makes me wonder how many

years you have actually been paying attention.

[MeDeMax]

2. he is drinking his own kool aid, campaign supplied talking points...n/t

[Danzo]

4. And You...

...are engaging in false, baseless ad-hominem attacks.

[MeDeMax]

5. already then...

My responses aren't false because you are citing blogs and opinions are credible news.

My responses aren't baseless because you are not discussing the candidates or issues, just a dull beat of "Hillary Good, Barack Bad".

My responses aren't ad-hominem because your DU profile is inconsistent with the flurry of recent posts in this forum.

Whether or not you are getting paid, your posts follow a specific pattern :

- Elevate Hillary's positions,
- admit no mistakes on her part,
- cite opinions as news sources to discredit Barack,
- Not praise Obama in any aspect.

[Danzo]

6. Then Refute Me

If my points are so horrible, then why aren't you able to rebutt the snot out of them? Looks to me as though most of your responses just consist of "(you suck, Danzo)."

[Sara Bradi]

7. if you are around after the primary, I will. See on the 5th...n/t

[Vet31203]

13. That does nothing for Hillary

Its funny how all of this Obama bashing makes people think that HRC has a better chance at winning the nomination. If she would stick to the issues instead of going negative and being non-sensical, she would have the lead.

They are both capable people.
I hope we can all stay civil and focus our fire on McCain.

Thanks

[Danzo]

14. It's VERY Relevant To Political Discourse

I've heard many Obama fans say that Obama has been consistent on NAFTA, and I have every right to try to refute that with facts.

[Danzo]

3. I Understand It Just Fine

The term "free trade" is a orwellian term invented by corporate conservatives. Free trade is inherently NOT fair, because their are no tariffs to balance things out. Obama is imlying that you can have free trade that's fair, and that's just not the case.

[liberalnurse]

8. Excellent find!

Obama is sheepish....I just can't get a good feeling for him....heck, who really knows him? By that I mean, we all know he gives dynamic speeches but really, who is he?

[OhioBlue]

9. you're too smart for that nurse.

I'm confident that you know who Senator Obama is and aren't wandering around in confusion.

[Kukesa]

12. Just in case,

link here:

http://www.barackobama.com/index.php

Read his entire bio; that ought to enlighten you.


Love ya, nurse!! We'll soon be on the same side again.

:hi:

[Danzo]

15. Yep...

There nothing biased about an Obama biography written on his official website. I'm sure they made certain to include all his flaws as well.

Eh, probably not.

[AngryOldDem]

10. Maybe you'll answer this here.

The link that I referenced in an earlier post this week did not work. My apologies. So let's try this.

When it comes to outsourcing, is HRC still in favor of increasing the number of H1-B guest worker Visas? I'm not only asking for myself, but it looks like some Indians aren't too happy with her anymore.

http://www.congoo.com/news/2008February22/Outsourcing-Hillary-sings-Obama-tune

And what did you think of the nice *dodge* she did Tuesday night when she virtually brushed off the effects that NAFTA has had on Ohio? I heard NO answer to that, other than a big kiss-off to a lot of manufacturing jobs and the workers who used to do them in this state. Oh...I forgot. We can all get jobs in the alternative energy field making solar panels and windmills. I guess that's what George Bush must have meant when he told laid-off American workers to "embetter themselves."

[MeDeMax]

11. AOD your link didn't work for me, is this the story ?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Outsourcing_Hillary_sings_Obama_tune/articleshow/2806248.cms

[AngryOldDem]

18. Yes, it is.

I tested my link after I posted it and it worked. Damned if I know what's going on.

[Danzo]

16. Hillary Is A "Fence Sitter"....

...in the sense that her voting record on trade issues is mixed, but the same is true of Barack. And the FACTS just don't support the article's implication that Hillary is more of a "fence sitter" than Obama. Since Obama was sworn in as a US Senator in 2005, his voting record on key trade issues is IDENTICAL to Hillary Clinton's. See for yourself if you don't believe me:


Hillary's voting record on key trade issues since '05:

http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=55463&type=category&category=63&go.x=13&go.y=9

Barack's voting record on key trade issues since '05:

http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490&type=category&category=63&go.x=10&go.y=20

The voting record on key trade issues does NOT support the notion that Barack is less of a "fence sitter" on free trade. That's plain to see.

[AngryOldDem]

17. I'm asking specfically about her current stand on H1-B Visas.

Is she for INCREASING them?
Is she for DECREASING them?
Is she for HOLDING the LINE on them?
Is she for gradually reducing them, as is Obama?

Actually at the end of the day, Obama's and HRC's positions on most issues are pretty much equal. However, on this issue HRC has been constantly perceived as being on the side of big business and corporate interests at the expense of American jobs. To cheers of business execs last summer in California, she said that outsourcing is here to stay and that the Visa program should be expanded.

I can do my own research on voting records. I want HRC to account for what she says, and to take responsibility to explain her positions to people like me who just aren't sure just where she stands as it concerns the American worker, especially the worker in the IT industry.

Don't know how much plainer I can ask this, for the third time, no less. If you can't give me a straight answer, that's fine.

[AngryOldDem]

27. LOL. I love the sound of crickets chirping. n/t

[Riley133]

30. According to this, Obama is in favor of a temporary increase.

"Until we have achieved that, I will support a temporary increase in the H-1B visa program as a stopgap measure until we can reform our immigration system comprehensively. I support comprehensive immigration reform that includes improvement in our visa programs, including our legal permanent resident visa programs and temporary programs including the H-1B program, to attract some of the world’s most talented people to America." - Senator Obama

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:OXJp-U2SwLEJ:pradeepc.net/blog/%3Fp%3D193+h1-b+visas+obama&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us

I used to think it was silly to have to reinvent yourself when you had a career that you excelled in and enjoyed. Ooops.

[pwdgroup]

19. Ms Clinton’s WV Political Strength (think we have problems?)

Check Out Who Is Pulling For Ms Clinton In WV

cut & paste this link (read it)

kanawhacountyblog.blogspot.com/

[Danzo]

20. If You're Gonna Keep Posting That, I'm Gonna Keep Responding

Richard Nixon supported the EPA. Does that mean that the EPA was a bad idea?

[Radical Activist]

21. They don't have any direct quotes or sources

for their claims that Obama once said anything good about Obama. This article has more spin than Obama. The facts look like he has always stood for fair trade and criticized NAFTA.

[Laylagrande]

22. I saw that in factcheck.org

previously.

[Kukesa]

23. Another one bites the dust. n/t

[Danzo]

25. Get Real.

Someone CLAIMS to have seen it on FactCheck.org, and you claim that I've been DEBUNKED?

I think FactCheck.org is generally very good, but they ARE dishonest and/or inaccurate sometimes: http://mediamatters.org/issues_topics/tags/factcheck_org

Also, where's a link to substantiated that he or she even SAW it on FactCheck.org?

[Kukesa]

26. Uh, Danzo, check the profile of the poster. Pay attention. n/t

[Danzo]

28. He Still Waffled

Told a Canadian embassador one thing, while telling the Ohio voters another. Nothing on FactCheck.org to refute THIS, either:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAJYMgX4JuU

[Kukesa]

29. Do you know we have a spell check function on DU? n/t

[Kolesar]

24. I just got that Obama lit that got Hillary so excited and I can see why

Is Hillary Clinton running away from her own record on trade deals that have cost Ohio nearly 50,000 jobs?

The whole flyer is heavy on insinuation. The Clintons and Al Gore promoted NAFTA and Hillary's opponent is insinuating that NAFTA cost Ohio 50,000 jobs.

In all fairness, WTO trade deals are what sent our jobs to China and India. In a campaign stop yesterday, Bill Clinton did say that her position is to renegotiate NAFTA. That is pretty close to Sherrod Brown's position that we cannot cancel NAFTA, but we do have to implement labor and environmental side agreements.

We already saw Tom Sawyer purged from Congress in two primaries due to this NAFTA issue. We need to acknowledge that there is a lot more to it and our candidates have to be better informed and forthright about trade deals.

The opponent in November is going to find any weakness in our candidate's position and drive a truck through it.

[Riley133]

31. It's working, though.

I know many who will vote for Obama based on that flyer - and the fact that they need a job. I was told there is a fairly high tax base here for businesses, and any corporate tax cuts made will not help the hiring situation. Or so I was told, anyway.