Tourism to OK by Seattleites plummets 100%

[maxsolomon]

from 1 per year to none.

hell yes i'm bitter. we're keeping the name.

[AndyA]

1. Oh my - what will we do without their tourism dollars?

Oklahoma's infrastructure will collapse!

[maxsolomon]

2. you're going to love Wally Walker!

its no fun to root for an incompetently run team.

[pscot]

18. You're mean, Max

I can't believe you came over here just to torment these poor folks. They didn't steal our team. Face it. Seattle has the sorriest civic leadership of any middling big city in the country; maybe on the planet. Greg Nichols, Nick Licata and Howard Schultz couldn't get laid if they owned a house of ill repute.

[LisaM]

3. I think Oklahoma DUers are too nice to want to steal a team

they would feel very bad about it, and refuse to support it. Theft is for Republicans!!!!

[Nicole]

4. I'm sure I won't notice your absence

Thanks for letting me know what I'll be missing. :sarcasm:

[RoyGBiv]

5. *** YAWN ***

Ya know, what's a bit ironic about this kind of reaction is that the team has been purchased by a group headed by a guy who, assuming it moves to OKC, is planning on modeling the Sonics after his experiences on the board of directors with the Spurs. And what that means is spread out ownership among people who have hard and deep ties to the community in which the team will be headquartered, thus reducing the possibility of it being sold away to someone or some group of someones from another city that want to move it. You can blame Mr. "Starbucks" if you really need to let off some steam. *He* sold the Sonics, and if a group from OKC hadn't bought it, someone else would have.

The problem with the Sonics, from a business perspective, is that Seattle as a whole doesn't support the team. Maybe you do, and for you, I'm truly sorry. But remember that your city does have a chance to keep the team. I simply doubt that doing so is among the mayor's and the Washington legislature's priorities at the moment.

OKC, who hosted the Hornets last year with no expectation of having the team around for more than a year, supported that team better than New Orleans had...ever. I remember vividly the day the members of the team started showing up in OKC and moving into their temporary housing. I met several of them and helped them set up some essential services in their apartments. They were floored by the welcome they received. One stated to me (off the record in a "if you say I said this I'll deny it because I'll end up being the most hated man in NO because of it" way) that he was completely annoyed at having to play in OKC, until he got here and found so many people so welcoming and so willing to accept him as a part of the community, and now he didn't want to leave and go back to a place where he was booed more often than he was cheered. He'd played his first game here by then and noted that the roar of the crowd was so uplifting, so unlike what he'd experienced in NO, that he'd decided then and there that he'd been completely wrong about OKC.

Half way through the year, with a team performing slightly above average, attendance at the games was ranking up there with long-established teams with heavy support from their host cities. OKC, the town too small to support a pro franchise, was beating out cities with better teams and populations three times the size. The group that bought the Sonics actually wanted the Hornets, but the owner is refusing to sell. Good on him, for the people of New Orleans, who very much need that kind of faith and commitment. Had your owner had the same determination, you wouldn't be here blaming Okies.

[maxsolomon]

6. I read that your Hornets season tickets were subsidized

and offered at reduced rates. Is that true?

"The problem with the Sonics, from a business perspective, is that Seattle as a whole doesn't support the team." I don't think you know Seattle very well. Ownership of the Basketball Club of Seattle LLC WAS spread out amongst people with deep ties in the community. Look how well that worked out. They bitched that they were losing 60 mil, but they sold out & made 60 mil. The Sonics have been here 39 years, and with the exception of the recent Wally Walker drive-the-team-into-the-ground-with-incompetence era, have been loved & supported as well as any team in the NBA.

The demands & negotiating stance of the Schultz-led Sonics were unreasonable, and backed up by poor timing, insults, and stonewalling. No citizen in Seattle ever believed a word they said about remodelled-10-years-ago Key Arena being substandard, or even saw the remodel plans. The City GUTTED the place 10 years ago, lowered the floor by 30', and rebuilt the whole thing new. To accuse the Governor, County, Mayor & Council of not wanting to retain the team, after they bent over for, in order, the Sonics, the Mariners, and the Seahawks, the latter two who also played the 'we're leaving unless' card, has left us with prosports fatigue.

Seattle is getting fucked, plain & simple. By the NBA, by David Stern, by Howard Schultz, & by Clayton Bennett wanting a backup in case George Shinn is as much of a flake as he appears. I don't think OKC needs TWO teams.

The most insulting part is that they just lie straight in your face - like the Bush Administration.

[RoyGBiv]

7. Dunno ...

I never looked into season tickets, and I don't know anyone who did. The tickets I bought I purhcased per-game through the box office, and the price was comparable to what I've paid for Mavericks tickets.

As for OKC and two teams, I'm not sure where you're getting that. No one here is planning for or suggesting that two NBA teams would be here at any time. The Hornets will be here, for part of the season, for one more year and then go back to New Orleans. During that year, the new owners of the Sonics will presumably be negotiating with the city of Seattle and/or the state of Washington regarding requirements to keep the team there. It's still all pretty much up in the air at the moment, of course. There is a slim possibility the Hornets could end up here anyway, but if they do, it will be dependant on the Sonics not ending up here. You're right that OKC doesn't need two teams. Furthermore, it doesn't have the capacity for two teams.

Regarding pro-sports fatigue, that's precisely the problem. Seattle has a population only slightly larger than OKC, yet it has three pro-sports teams. OKC planners have been trying to lure *one* pro team here, preferably either NBA or MLB, which would have no real competition inside the state at all. Football would be a no-go here. The Sooners in particular but also the Cowboys are the equivalent of pro-teams to OK residents, and no one with any influence has any real desire to change that. The city has also sent out feelers about a pro-hockey team, but if that were to happen, what to do with the minor league Blazers would come into play. The Blazers have a fairly strong support base, but it's limited. Hockey doesn't really fit into the culture here. And actually baseball would have some similar issues. The baseball stadium we have, which is nice, only really works for a minor league team, which we already have. All things considered, NBA is the preferred option.

In any case, Seattle may well be getting screwed, but again I say the proper target of your ire is the former ownership of the Sonics. No one in OK created the situation in which you find yourself.

[maxsolomon]

8. OKC is almost 3.4 million?

i had no idea. the series of tubes on the internets say there's 3.5 million in the whole state.

2005 estimates: King County (Seattle, Bellevue, et al) 1.79 million, Snohomish County (Everett), .65 million, Pierce County (Tacoma) .75 million, Kitsap County (Bainbridge Island, Bremerton) .25 million. = 3.44 million. That's all closer than Tulsa is to OKC.

Clay Bennett didn't buy this team to leave it here. It defies common sense.

I know its not OKC's fault per se, but ask Cleveland Browns fans how they feel about Baltimore. Perhaps you'll understand when the Sonics get taken away from you. And they will. Or is OKC willing to bend over ad infinitum?

[RoyGBiv]

9. Population ...

I was comparing population of the city proper. The population of the Seattle metro is much larger than the OKC metro, but then again roughly 2/3 of the OK population is within a 1.5 hour drive of downtown OKC, which is the kind of thing investment groups here are looking at. People actually drive from Cimarron County, OK to see the Sooners and Cowboys play, and that's a pain-in-the-ass drive.

Regardless of the precise numbers, the point is what you mentioned, pro-sports fatigue. Seattle has it, and the bottom line is that has not supported three pro-sports teams well. OKC does not have this issue, and it does have the population to support one major team.

I'm also not so naive as to think Bennett's group has any other plan than to move the Sonics to OKC, but that isn't set in stone. First of all, the group doesn't have the rights to use the existing stadium yet. The Hornets do, for another year anyway. Should the Hornet's ownership decide to relocate to OKC more permanently, which is very doubtful at this point, the Sonics won't be here.

Brown's fans may well hate Baltimore, but that's a silly, misplaced hatred.

As for bending over, OKC residents have by and large made it an art form. The whole project that rennovated downtown, and made this possible, was an exercise in bending over and taking it with sandpaper that started over a decade ago, and those residents have been saying, "Thank you, sir, may I have another?" ever since. So, yeah, probably. I'm not saying *I* particularly think that's a good idea, nor that this transaction is without its problems for all sides involved. As noted originally, I sympathize with you and other Sonics fans, even if you seem to think I and my town is somehow personally responsible. But, as also noted, the problem you're experiencing is due to the former ownership and the fact you've already been brow-beat by two other franchises.

So, anyway, if you want to hate OK, go ahead. I wouldn't suggest coming here anyway. It's too damn hot, and our politicians are assholes.

[maxsolomon]

10. i don't know where you get an idea like this:

"the bottom line is that has not supported three pro-sports teams well." it's not true, and it grinds my gears.

we've bent over & taken it from 3 pro franchises in a row, and in the space of 10 years. 3 new stadia. Key Arena, Safeco Field, and Qwest Stadium. All have good attendance records.

now the first one in line is back for seconds, and the fact that we balk is surprising?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

11. Why are you blaming us?

It's not like we all as a state plotted to take them. That's ridiculous. Blame the rich bastards who bought the team. :eyes:
Duckie

[maxsolomon]

12. oh i do blame them

and i don't blame Okies per se. i am bitter & pissed.

but really, tell me again how you don't dislike nebraskans just because of the cornhuskers. or is that different?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

15. Dude, I live in oklahoma and I hate the sooners.

My opinion of the cornhuskers is probably not the one you're looking for. But honestly, why are you wasting your energy and emotion on a fucking sports team?
Duckie

[RoyGBiv]

16. Somehow missed this ...

Ya know, I'm a Sooner fan and have been since I was old enough to know what was working up my relatives so much on Saturday afternoons. But, I'm not psychotic. What team I support has basically nothing to do with what I think of a person.

I go to a little bar on Saturday afternoons, tucked away in a little corner of nowhere, which I like visiting because the company. Bars are a dime a dozen, but this one is basically my Cheers.

The bartender is a Nebraska native who moved here after meeting his wife at, of all things, an OU-Nebraska game. They exchanged e-mails at first, then managed for meetings, and then, when he was looking for grad schools decided on OU in part because it had a program that worked well with his interests but also because she was here. He'll graduate with his Masters next year, and she'll graduate the next semester with her Bachelors. And then they'll decide what to do.

But their relationship is not the point of my mentioning this.

I like this guy because he's smart, pours a liberal draw for people who aren't assholes, knows sports and politics and has all the "correct" opinions, no matter who you are, and is one of the best conversationalists I have ever known ... the perfect bartender. I love especially visting this bar during OU-Nebraska games, regardless of the sport, because the rivalry is good and the banter entertaining. He's the Nebraska Cornfucker, and I'm the Oklahoma Shitter. Good times.

If I ever start hating someone based on what team they support, please do shoot me.

[Nicole]

13. I wonder that too

Blame the rich bastards who bought the team.

Better yet, blame the greedy bastard who sold them.

[Broken_Hero]

14. I just hope/pray that

the Sonics stay in Seattle, and if they move, I'm buying me a damn Portland Trailblazers hat, and switching teams...

[flashg]

17. Oklahoma City got screwed, not Seattle

I remember when OKC tried unsuccessfully to lure whichever NHL team ultimately went to Salt Lake City (I think), they've been trying to get major league sports there for years. But do they really need it? Especially at $350 million just to get the team, not to mention the stadium & infrastructure costs? Seattle demolished the King Dome when it still had over $100 million in debt, then built two new stadiums for baseball & football completely against the will of the voting majority, and a few years later the Sonics wanted the same thing. I have hobbies too, but I don't expect the city to subsidize them to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, and especially when there are more dire needs in any city. Reality is the positive economic impact of pro-sports ends within a block or two of the stadium, if there is any at all. OKC could have used that $350+ million in so many better directions; instead it's the same old good old boy network trying to impress the world by flashing some cash and completely neglecting OKC's real problems as well as her potential, perpetuating negative stereotypes at the very least. By the way, there are 3.8 million in the Seattle metro, and population is rising faster than it has since the early 90s. And then there's the difference in tax base and per capita income. Seattle could have afforded the Sonics, but personally I won't miss them. I feel happy for OKC to finally get her major league team, but sad to think of what could have been if that $350 million would have been in more competent hands.

PS: I think the last people dreaming of taking something away from Seattle are Oklahoma DU's, why take it out on them? I suspect most Seattle to Oklahoma tourism is going back to visit family, and that probably won't change because of the Sonics.