Has anyone seen any polling on measures 66 and 67?

[potone]

I am very worried about this. The Oregonian came out against them, and it will be a disaster for education if these measures fail.:scared:

[Eatacig]

1. Measures

:-) I'm from Portland and everyone I know is voting for it. Of course these are the same people who cried when they had to pay the Multnomah County Tax because they thought they hadn't been given the opportunity to vote for it.

[Vestigial_Sister]

2. It's likely going down in CO

I'm in Central Oregon and hear all the whining from the beef industry...like $3.50lb hamburger prices are going to make me have sympathy for them. I can safely say that I'm voting yes but likely only countering the vote from one of many wing-nuts who still populate this area.

[stubtoe]

3. Well, it ain't scientific (it's a web poll) but here's the KGW site:

http://www.kgw.com/news/politics/Oregon-Tax-Battle-Underway-80668642.html

It's "yes" at 63% at the moment.

I can't seem to find a recent poll or even an exit vote count yet.

[LWolf]

4. On the other side of the mountains,

the Bend Bulletin has been waging war against them DAILY with editorials and attacks against OEA.

I am more than worried about it. My job won't survive another round of teacher lay-offs. I don't have an SO or any financial "cushion" whatsoever at this point.

[potone]

5. I feel for you.

Portland State University is expecting cuts in the neighborhood of 20% if these measures fail, and my cousin who works at the courthouse said that the judges told the employees that the courthouse may have to be closed for two days each week if these measures fail. The campaign against them has been very dishonest, and I worry that most people don't realize what the consequences will be if these measures fail.

[sandnsea]

6. New poll, looks like they'll pass

http://www.theoutlookonline.com/news/story.php?story_id=126395536961751900

[0rganism]

7. I wonder how well that'll hold up in the final week

Voters in Oregon have been at the mercy of anti-tax spins for something like two decades. I'll be pleasantly surprised if either of these measures passes by more than 5%.

[gratuitous]

8. Haven't seen anything recently

But the partial polls seem to favor passage. The big corporations and their stooges have pulled out all the stops, and haven't cavilled at any lie to mislead the public. But it appears that most Oregonians have figured out that they don't make a quarter mil a year. Time for the biggest beneficiaries of the current system to pay some of the freight for it. At last.

[LWolf]

9. I got 2 different robo calls this morning warning me to vote against

"job killing taxes."

Of course, MY job, and the jobs of many I know, may be killed if they DON'T pass.

[cascadiance]

10. Hmm... After this last week, couldn't we have saved money with only one proposition?

Since it has now claimed that corporations are persons... Perhaps we should have had just one prop to tax them EQUALLY percentage-wise!

[Danieljay]

11. Wife and I are voting no....

Wife and I are an S-Corp.. so we'd pay $150 a year plus an additional $50 filing fee. Doesn't sound like much? Why should my wife and I, who make a combined income of 90,000 (Gross)and VERY little corporat profit have to pay a penny more than anyone else simply because we file as an S-Corp?

Our small business can barely afford 1 staff and a part time accountant. Most of our clients make more than we do, take trips to Hawaii, Live in nicer homes than we, buy big screen televisions and drink $5 lattes twice a day and they dont have to pay a dime more?

We are taxed to the max, have to pay workers comp insurance, portland business tax, trimet tax, match payroll taxes.. its ridiculous. Everyone should pay their fair share. NOT just Corporations and businesses. Re-write the measure and increase EVERYONE's contribution AND make the big corporations pay their fair share.

I know this isn't a popular opinion here.. but after writing 4 checks to the state today totalling over 2,000 dollars for taxes, fees, etc.. i'm effing sick of taking up the slack.

[HuckleB]

12. Well, look a little deeper.

Oregon actually does not have restrictive taxes. That is a perception that does not match reality.

In the '90s, I worked for a business publication company, and I had to read most of the nation's business magazines. For several years, Oregon's businesses rated it as being very business friendly, especially for small businesses, and Portland was singled out as being a great for a small business. Then the PBA decided they wanted an even better deal, and they began pushing propaganda about how Portland was not business friendly. Despite no tax increases and no policy changes, suddenly those magazines were no longer rating Portland and Oregon as business friendly, largely because the businesses had motive to change perception. Propaganda is successful, but, at least in this case, it's BS.

Some actual data can be found here where Oregon is rated as the 14th "best" state for business tax climate:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/52.html

This five-year-old study also shows Oregon's business tax burden as being very low:

http://www.ocpp.org/cgi-bin/display.cgi?page=issue040123

And another piece on the matter:

http://www.blueoregon.com/2009/03/oregon-business-taxes-were-number-2-lowest.html

And one more:

http://blog.oregonlive.com/mapesonpolitics/2008/08/oregon_state_and_local_tax_bur.html

The following piece gives context.

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/01/measures_66_and_67_weighing_th.html

Sorry, but I don't think you informed yourselves before you voted. You're not taking up the slack for anyone. Just pay your fair share. It's painful for all of us, but it would be much more painful if we didn't go in together to help one another.

[Danieljay]

13. I'll pay my fair share.. but how is it painful for 'all of us' when most people don't pay a dime?

Thank God s-corps only pay $150 and an additional $50 filing. I'm thankful that was written in I'll gladly pay it. I'm also greatful that the mega-corps will start paying their fair share. I wasn't however misinformed. I knew exactly what I was voting for. Principle.

I'm guessing you must be a business owner? You don't think you are overtaxed? You are content with the cost of doing business?

[HuckleB]

14. Read what I posted, including the links.

I'm not going to complain when the reality of situation is that I am not being overtaxed -- and neither are you. EVERYONE feels overtaxed, and those who "don't pay taxes" certainly wish they made enough so that they could pay taxes.

The cost of doing business (as the reality notes) is no better anywhere else (and, yes, I am a business owner), and, in terms of fairness, no business owner is overtaxed in the state of Oregon.

Not by a long shot. (Of course, it would be wonderful if we could all have everything for FREE! You know, ME ME ME!)

The propaganda does not meet the reality in this state. Cut the crap, and dig into the reality.

You want to go across the river and pay even more in business taxes?

[Danieljay]

18. Thanks for the info...

That being said.. for me however, it was a matter of principle. Because we now file as an S-Corp we are somehow considered wealthy. Ha. So, a household with a combined gross income of well under what the measure listed as would'nt be affected.. is. $200 bucks.. no biggie.

I'll consider myself grateful i'm in Oregon. I do love it here and wouldn't choose any other place. I'm just saying.. everyone should contribute and 'own' this problem. Not just a few. A collective contribution for a collective problem.

[HuckleB]

19. Principle should be based on the reality of the situation, not on emotion.

[Danieljay]

22. Please tell me how much more you are paying as a result of this measure...

I'm just curious.

[HuckleB]

29. I don't know, for sure.

It depends on the profit issue.

But according to your original post (which talks about you making very little), I'll be paying more than you.

Again, I'm not going to whine about what I pay, when I know what others pay, and that I'm not being treated unfairly. You seem to want to focus on yourself, and ignore the outside world. That's got nothing to do with principle.

BTW, this discussion is not really going anywhere, so I won't bother dropping by again.

But this is yet another piece that gets to the heart of the issue:
http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/news/cityregion/24367821-41/oregon-business-tax-state-measures.csp

[Danieljay]

17. self delete

[sandnsea]

15. Trying hard to dig up some sympathy

$90,000 income, $2,000 state taxes and fees. And the problem is what?? You're not picking up the slack. You're paying your fair share. $150 more isn't going to kill you. It will, however, help keep a child in school in the worst economy most of us have seen in our adult life. I wish I was in a position to pay $2,000 of taxes.

[Danieljay]

16. Dont try too hard cuz I'm not asking for your sympathy. For me, it was principle.

You havent a clue as to how much we pay in state and federal taxes, city business tax, licensing fees, trimet tax, insurance, etc just to keep our doors open. Try over 2X's that amount each month, and that doesn't include operating costs or expenses. Through working our ass off we've actually managed to still grow a little the last two years. And yes, I'm grateful.

The poster above says we got it good in Oregon. Yep, we live a good life but pay enough already. If you want to be in a position to pay more taxes.. start building your own business from the ground up like we did and you'll understand quick enough. Its not easy and we struggled a long time to get here. Look, I know people are having a tough time right now.. everyone is. I'll happily pay my $200 bucks and when my wife and I are making over $250 K in a couple years it looks like we'll pay even more due to 66 passing. But EVERYONE should contribute. How much are you sending to the state for your share?

But believe me, until I started my own business I didn't have a clue as to what small businesses went through just to stay in business. I'm becoming more fiscally conservative by the day.

[HuckleB]

20. Insularity does not breed principle.

[Danieljay]

23. aren't you clever...

[HuckleB]

30. I'm just stating the reality.

Your "principle" is all about you. You continue to ignore the fact that you are not horribly taxed despite being given the evidence. You had to pay some bills, and that's what your "principle" is based upon.

That's not principle. That's insularity.

It is what it is.

Good bye.

[sandnsea]

21. I have my own business

I know what the costs are. I have no idea why you're paying $4,000 a month, unless you own a restaurant and have liquor taxes, or have high workman's comp taxes. Still, if you're headed to $250,000, you shouldn't be complaining. And if you're workers are in a high risk job, I can't see why you'd want to keep $40,000 a year to put them at further risk. In WWII, the wealthiest had a 90% tax rate to pay for the war. How about we go back to that?

[Danieljay]

24. Are you taxes going up or are you a sole proprietor? If so.. are you sending in your 200 bucks?

I mean after all.. we all should be contributing no?

[sandnsea]

25. Wouldn't you rather have people purchasing your goods?

Would you seriously prefer everybody have a tax hike, even if it meant half the population could no longer buy whatever it is you sell because you'd taken the last of their disposable income? That's why everybody doesn't pay the same amount of taxes. I cannot believe you're pissed about $200 bucks. What a greedy fuck.

[Danieljay]

26. I'm a greedy fuck? Oh, thats luvly. So I'm guessing youre mailing your $200 today?

I never said I was pissed about $200 bucks. Its nothing. However, let me know when you send your $200 check to the state.

[sandnsea]

33. It's a tax on the rich. You're rich. I'm not.

Sorry you're pissed about being rich. Yes, $90,000 a year is in the top 10% of the US and the top 1% of the world. You've hit the jackpot. You are seriously so peeved over $200 goddamn dollars that you would want all your minimum wage employees to take $200 out of their measley wage so everything can be "fair". Balance out everybody's pay so your employees make the same as you, and then we'll all send in $200. Gads. What a fool.

[Danieljay]

35. Rich? Ha. You are hilarious. And, I'm not pissed but you sure seem to be.

Its not the $200 and I'm not peeved about paying it. So go take a look in the mirror and then tell me who's peeved and pissed.

Oh, and I pay my 2 employees 15 and 20 bucks and hour. I'd pay em more if I could. We also provide discounts and free care to certain clients who are struggling financially. Forgive me for working my ass off to succeed.

This measure was supposed to not affect singles making under 125K and couples making less than 250K. Well, we are a combined income of less than 100K and now you are calling us rich. Laughable. Actually we are in the top 15%. Do you think someone just handed us this? Because we busted our ass off to make it we are rich and greedy?


Signed

Mr. and Mrs. Rich Greedy.

[HuckleB]

31. You seem to be able to respond only with red herrings.

That is why there's no point in continuing this discussion.

[BlueIris]

27. I'm not embarrassed to post that I voted no.

In addition to the fact that I fear these measures will make it harder to pass the sales tax I think we need, I have issues with the fact that both measures are retroactive to January of '09, which I feel is a dishonest way to structure any proposed law.

Finally, I doubt they will make much of a difference.

[HuckleB]

28. You doubt they will make much of a difference?

Wow!

Oh, and, now that election is over, maybe you'll spend some time learning about taxes in OR.

Oregon actually does not have restrictive taxes. That is a perception that does not match reality.

In the '90s, I worked for a business publication company, and I had to read most of the nation's business magazines. For several years, Oregon's businesses rated it as being very business friendly, especially for small businesses, and Portland was singled out as being a great for a small business. Then the PBA decided they wanted an even better deal, and they began pushing propaganda about how Portland was not business friendly. Despite no tax increases and no policy changes, suddenly those magazines were no longer rating Portland and Oregon as business friendly, largely because the businesses had motive to change perception. Propaganda is successful, but, at least in this case, it's BS.

Some actual data can be found here where Oregon is rated as the 14th "best" state for business tax climate:... See More

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/52.html

This five-year-old study also shows Oregon's business tax burden as being very low:

http://www.ocpp.org/cgi-bin/display.cgi?page=issue040123

And another piece on the matter:

http://www.blueoregon.com/2009/03/oregon-business-taxes-were-number-2-lowest.html

And one more:

http://blog.oregonlive.com/mapesonpolitics/2008/08/oregon_state_and_local_tax_bur.html

I say it's time to drop the propaganda of the campaign, and look at the reality of the situation. The following pieces do a mildly fair job of doing just that.

http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/news/cityregion/24367821-41/oregon-business-tax-state-measures.csp

and

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/01/measures_66_and_67_weighing_th.html

[sandnsea]

32. That's because this originally passed in 2009

By the legislature. The Republicans wouldn't accept that the will of the voters had spoken through our legislators and that's why we had another vote. This tax will have an enormous affect on the schools, don't you remember last year's fight to get the legislature to pass this? This tax is also much more progressive than a sales tax. Oregon does not need that unless we eliminate the income tax.

[cascadiance]

34. In addition to helping funding of state offices it will give the unemployed more spending money...

... which will help grow the local economy more too, in a way that targeted tax cuts should.

[Danieljay]

36. careful.. I voted no and now i'm a rich greedy fuck. Wow, just yesterday

someone was thanking me for providing them free care.

How things change.

[HuckleB]

37. More emotion-based BS.

Do you realize that's all you've offered to defend your supposed "principles?"

[Danieljay]

38. Yawn. thank you for your 'reasonable' response. Didn't you say there was no point in continuing?

[LWolf]

39. So I won't thank you for saving my job.

Another round of layoffs and I will lose my job and my home.

That would have cost me, and the rest who lost jobs, a hell of a lot more than an extra $200 a year.

As a matter of fact, I, and all my colleagues that didn't get RIFed last spring, took a $1500 pay cut for this year already, and we'll be taking another to keep people working even with the passage of 66 and 67. That's extra money in the district's coffers, in addition to the taxes that we all pay.

Please don't tell me that I don't pay "my fair share."