Ayn Rand.

[white_wolf]

So as im interested in philosophy and have read alot about the older philosophers I was wondering if the books of Ayn Rand are worth reading? I do not agree with any of her views, but I felt it might be good to try and understand her. I do have another question though if anyone here has studied her could you please explain to me why she recommended St. Thomas Aquainias when from what Ive read she was an atheist?

[Warren Stupidity]

1. No. Not on any level. Certainly not as either literature or philosophy.

[Monk06]

2. Ayn Rand is not a philosopher she is a novelist and a polemicist and not a good one either. n/t

[Cirque du So-What]

4. +1000

Some of the worst writing I've ever encountered. She has absolutely no 'feel' for fleshing-out fictional characters, who have all the charisma of cardboard cutouts.

[wtmusic]

3. Read the first 100 pages of Atlas Shrugged if you want a laugh

and a primer on how to create one-dimensional, simplistic characters with like messages.

[StarfarerBill]

5. Rand was a far-right novelist, capitalist idolator, and wannabe-philosopher.

Read her stuff only if you want to know what to stay far away from. :)

As for her recommending Aquinas, I've no idea why.

[regnaD kciN]

9. She probably liked Aquinas...

...because he was the primary medieval Aristotelian, rather than a Platonist.

[StarfarerBill]

12. Having had an eight-year relationship with a philosophy Ph.D., I should've remembered that;

but a lot of what she told me about esoteric philosophy went either over my head, or through one ear and out the other. ;)

Thanks for the clarification.

[Monk06]

16. She falls more in line with Plato than Aristotle. Specifically anti democratic tendencies

in Plato's Republic, where popular democracy
is disparaged in favor of an autocracy of
philosopher kings. Atlas Shrugged bears many
similarities with the Republic wear the "creative
and productive" classes set themselves apart from
non productive collectivist underclass with the
semi mythical John Galt, the putative philosopher
king.

All in all the dark vision of a selfish and destructive
elitist women, incapable of sympathy or affect.

Small wonder one of her most ardent disciples was Allan
Greenspan

[NMMNG]

6. No

Look at any list of philosophers and Rand's name will not be on it, with good reason. She was a hack and her "philosophy" is bull. Don't waste your time reading more than 1,000 pages to learn that she worshiped greed and narcissism.

[ixion]

7. of her novels, I think The Fountainhead is the best one

You can read one and pretty much get all you need to know about her philosophy.

[Katidid]

13. I agree with you, I did enjoy The Fountainhead.

I read Atlas Shrugged when I was 17 on a bet that I couldn't get through 250 pages of John Gault's speech. I won. And went on to read even additional novels. Naive?

However, if you want to sum up the works of Rand, read her simple short novel "We the Living".

I would not consider her a philosopher, not even a "forward thinker".
:hi:

PS
I Couldn't resist this thread the evening before Christmas.:hi:

[ixion]

14. Yeah, We, the Living would be a good choice as well

I actually read Atlas Shrugged twice, if you can believe that. :hi:

Yeah, I never understood the philosophy part, either. And her writing is staid and repetitive.

She was definitely not a forward thinker. I think she had a sort of PTSD from living in Petrograd. :)

[BlooInBloo]

8. Only worth reading if you want to be stupider.

[Jim__]

10. Thomas Aquinas introduced Aristotelian reasoning to the Western Church.

Ayn Rand thought that by doing this he undermined faith. From the Ayn Rand Center:

What--or who--ended the Middle Ages? My answer is: Thomas Aquinas, who introduced Aristotle, and thereby reason, into medieval culture. In the thirteenth century, for the first time in a millennium, Aquinas reasserted in the West the basic pagan approach. Reason, he said in opposition to Augustine, does not rest on faith; it is a self-contained, natural faculty, which works on sense experience. Its essential task is not to clarify revelation, but rather, as Aristotle had said, to gain knowledge of this world. Men, Aquinas declared forthrightly, must use and obey reason; whatever one can prove by reason and logic, he said, is true. Aquinas himself thought he could prove the existence of God, and he thought that faith is valuable as a supplement to reason. But this did not alter the nature of his revolution. His was the charter of liberty, the moral and philosophical sanction, which the West had desperately needed. His message to mankind, after the long ordeal of faith, was in effect: "It's all right. You don't have to stifle your mind anymore. You can think."

The result, in historical short order, was the revolt against the authority of the Church, the feudal breakup, the Renaissance. Renaissance means "rebirth," rebirth of reason and man's concern with this world. Once again, as in the pagan era, we see secular philosophy, natural science, man-glorifying art, and the pursuit of earthly happiness. It was a gradual, tortuous change, with each century becoming more worldly than the preceding, from Aquinas to the Renaissance to the Age of Reason to the climax and end of this development: the eighteenth century, the Age of Enlightenment. This was the age in which America's founding fathers were educated and in which they created the United States.

I agree with what the others have said about Rand. She was a terrible novelist. But, Atlas Shrugged is once again a popular book. If you read her, you will probably understand most of the arguments that free-marketers make. You should also be able to refute those arguments.

[YOY]

11. When she died she died alone.

Afterwards many of those who found her legitimacy of greed empowering presented her with a funeral wreath in the shape of dollar sign.

You sure you want to study her philosphy?

Naw...you just want to toss some meat in the shark waters here at DU.

[Turbineguy]

15. Atlas Shrugged (Spoiler Alert!):

The sex scene with Hank and Dagny was pretty good.

[hippywife]

17. I wish people would just stop

even mentioning her.

[rantormusing]

18. LOL DId you post this on purpose?

Anyways, We the Living, stop after that one, or just read Atlas for fun.

[bemildred]

19. Kind of like the "Left Behind" series, but more pretentious. nt

[abluelady]

20. A Good Resource You Might Check

Jennifer Burns, a professor at the University of Virginia, has a book out called "Goddess of the Market: Ayn Rand and the American Right." There is an interesting interview of her by Jon Stewart on her web site. http://www.jenniferburns.org/ And you're right, she was an atheist.

[WCGreen]

21. If you have already had your first non self inflicted orgasm, then Rand

might be for you...

Otherwise, laughable in style and bizarre in content...

[tigereye]

22. hmm, read both as a teen, I think they are worth reading just to get a feel

for her ponderous style and larger-than-life characters. I remember liking Anthem when I was in college. I think a lot of people see her as a woman thinker at a time when that was uncommon, and she seemed to have a bizarre, cultish sort of charisma.I can't say she's a great writer, but she gets people upset and busy discussing things, so maybe she could be seen as an archetype in the continual battle against fascism, except that she ends up on the wrong side, despite her protests to the contrary. :rofl:



I have to say that most people outgrow their fascination with her (or should) by the time they are 22 or younger. :D If they don't they made need a serious rethink of their priorities...

[Boojatta]

23. The Call of Rand

One day the LORD appeared unto Ayn Rand and said, I am the God of thy father, the God of John D. Rockefeller, the God of Henry Ford, and the God of Andrew Carnegie. And Rand hid her face; for she was afraid to look upon God.

And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my industrialists which are in America, and have heard their cry from government regulation; for I know their sorrows;

And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the government, and to bring them up out of that land unto a valley good and large, a valley flowing with milk and honey, a valley hidden among mountains.

Now therefore, behold, the cry of the industrialists is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the government oppress them.

Come now therefore, that thou mayest bring forth my people the industrialists away from the government.

And Rand said unto God, Who am I, that I should bring forth the industrialists away from the government?

And Rand said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the industrialists, and say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall ask me what is your name, what shall I say unto them?

And God said unto Rand, A is A, thou say unto the industrialists: a message deduced via logic from the premise A is A has sent me unto you.

[terryg11]

24. Jaysus Krist!!

Do you not read the postings in this forum? People here hate Rand but honestly, read her for yourself to find out.

We the Living and Fountainhead are probably the best to start with since they are (1) shorter novels and (2) have more sympathetic characters. I actually enjoy the main character of Fountainhead.

I understand why people dont like her philosophy and Atlas Shrugged does drag on, among other things but her big thing is about individualism and the self. I believe she has some history with early communist russia which really turned her off to anything socialist.

Anyway, read the two listed or for something even shorter a story called "Anthem" I think it is.

ATLAS SHRUGGED ISNT THAT GOOD FOR REASONS STATED IN OTHER POSTS. I think she just liked to read her own writing too much :)