Orson Scott Card/Ender Saga

[Goblinmonger]

Last year, at the recommendation of one of my students, I read Ender's Game (loved it) and then went on to read the Ender Trilogy (Speaker, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind). By the end of Children, I was done reading about ender for awhile.

Skip ahead to this year. Same student is in my English 11 class this year and is reading Ender's Shadow (we have 10 minutes of silent reading at the beginning of each class). So I ask and he tells me it is basically the same time period of Ender's Game from Bean's perspective. I started reading it just in the 10 minutes of each of my classes (comes to 50 minutes of reading each day minus the discipline I need to do). Yesterday I took it home because I had to finish reading it. What a fantastic book. I think it is better than Ender's Game, but I have to mull it over for a bit to make my final decision on that. I cried at the end; twice. Once when Bean gives the Absalom speech and again at the final ending (trying not to give too much away).

Anybody else read this book? It is such a well-written journey of a young boy growing.

[lenidog]

1. I read the original but never got around to the other ones

He could just never pull me back into that universe. Don't get me wrong as far as sci-fi goes the first was an excellent book.

[scubadude]

2. I haven't read it and never will, Card is a super right wing zealot

After I read some of his right wing views, I vowed to never read him again. Also I went to a signing and asked him a question about
one of his early effort, Songmaster. He dissed me, saying basically that it wasn't that good, right after I told him I liked it....

[Goblinmonger]

3. Hemingway

was a misogynistic prick, but The Sun Also Rises is a pretty damn good novel.

[malmapus]

5. wow never woulda thought him to be a super repug from the way he has the

world being in the future, espicially with the Islamic nations being united (albeit in a confederation but still allowing them to be a more powerful voice in world affairs), would figure that to be a repug nightmare.

[Momgonepostal]

6. Card is actually a democrat, but...

it's true he's very conservative.

I've read Treasure Box, and wasn't that crazy about it. I haven't been moved to read anything else by him.

[malmapus]

7. Yeah I thought that was kinda weird from the way he writes

There was this other series that I first read of his, about like pioneers in early America...trying to remember what it was called. But yeah I didn't care much for that entire series. Then my folks gave me Ender's Game and I couldn't put it down.

[scubadude]

8. That was Seventh Son

Something like the Alvin Maker series... I don't remember, it was a long time ago.

I have read most of his work. The Enders series tanked for me around book 4.

Too bad he supported the Iraq war so freverently. He lost me as a fan.

Scuba

[Czolgosz]

11. Are you sure?

[mzteris]

13. Are you SURE

about that?

I heard him speak at a Johne Locke luncheon (I ONLY went to see Card) and he didn't strike me as remotely "Democratic".

In fact the more I learned about him - and his underlying pathology - I stopped reading his books as "entertaining" as they were.

He's a sick man.

[Momgonepostal]

27. Just getting back to this...YES, I'm sure

He strikes me as a Zell Miller Democrat, but he still chooses to wear the D anyway.

Here's an interesting pre-election article about some authors and their voting preferences.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2107890/

Orson Scott Card

I'm a Democrat voting for Bush, even though on economic issues, from taxes to government regulation, I'm not happy with the Republican positions. But we're at war, and electing a president who is committed to losing it seems to be the most foolish thing we could do. Personal honesty is also important to me, and Kerry is obviously not in the running on that point, given that he can't keep track of the facts in his own autobiography.

(You're right, he DOESN'T sounded Democratic, but apparently he thinks he is)

[malmapus]

4. I LOVE the Ender's Game series

Recommend all of them, also Shadow of the Hegemon and Shadow Puppets are great you HAVE to read them, you start getting more into Ender's older brother as well as that bully who tried to kill Bean. But yeah by far Bean is my favorite character.

Unfortunetly I didn't get into Xenocide or Speaker for the Dead as much.

If you like OSC he wrote another series called Homecoming (The Memory of Earth, The Call of Earth..etc) which I REALLY recommend too.

[hel]

9. I am a big fan of his books.

But definitely not he himself. The earlier books (The original Ender saga, Homecoming series, Treason etc.) were perfect, probably my favorite science fiction stories ever. He had great ideas and did a good job in writing as well.

I can't help but hear his 'preaching' right wing voice in the newest books, like Shadow of the Giant. I end up buying them, and read them in a few days, but I feel disappointed afterwards. Such a tragedy it is, a great mind gone bad because of... God knows what.

I would still suggest his earlier books to anyone who likes science fiction.

[ruthg]

10. I liked Enders Game ...

and the one that comes right after it ( Speaker for The Dead?) and then I started another but got bored. I really do think that he is a writer for young adults ( at least what I have read). Enders Game just may be a classic in YA Science Fiction.

His politics pretty much stink though.

[jayctravis]

17. From what I understand, he's Mormon.

Which there's nothing wrong with, but I spent a road trip with a recent convert to Mormonism who had gotten into his books that way.

[uppityperson]

24. Shadow of the Giant was wayyyyy to conservative for me.

It came through to me as preachy, family values stuff. A family is 1 man and 1 woman and their children. Which is ok as far as it goes, but is too limiting a definition for me. Yes, I put aside a lot for my child, but having and raising a child is not THE meaning of my existence. I am looking forward to the second of the set he cowrote with (?) about Lovelock the monkey, space ship community, even though there again he stereotypes people. He is an interesting writer, brings himself into his work.

[Czolgosz]

12. George RR Martin is both a better author and a better person (his post

election denouncement of Bush on his own website was classic).

[mzteris]

14. Card is a sick puppy

His books SEEM entertaining, but he is definitely twisted. He has a "Christ complex" or something. I used to absolutely LOVE his stuff. Then someone got me thinking about the underlying pathological nature of his characters. Then I heard the man speak at a Locke luncheon (I only went to see Card.) and I was appalled at what he had to say. He's really a war-monger you know.

Think about it. He (his characters) commit these horribly violent atrocious acts BUT he always has an "excuse". I won't let my kids read this guy ever. He justifies EXTREME violence.

For an interesting read and more info about Card:

http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Killer_000.htm

(Others of his books have some VERY disturbing characteristics, too. Including a little girl who can "portray" as an adult and engages in astral sex with a grown man. Including using his dead son as a central character in the book "Lost Boys". Including the justification of a murdered spirit taking over the body and essentially killing her murderer.) Sick. Just sick.

[Kraklen]

15. The Hypocrites of Homosexuality. By Orson Scott Card.

http://www.nauvoo.com/library/card-hypocrites.html

The Ender series is pretty good (avoid anything else by Card), but please, find them in a library. Don't give the prick your money.

[Onceuponalife]

16. Who cares what his personal views are??

His books are entertaining as hell (have you read "Hart's Hope"?). Besides, he has portrayed homosexuality positively in his books. I support gay rights strongly and I sit far to the left of center, and I have read almost all of Card's books and loved them all (except "Children of the Mind"). I will continue to read his books, even the "women of Genesis" series. I can separate the art from the artist.

I despise Charlton Heston personally, but I love a lot of his films and he's a great actor.

[mzteris]

18. because his personal views

generally are insidiously inserted into his stories....

He is a very warped man. See my link to a very good analysis of him and his "writing a coupld of messages up.....

[Sasha Undercover]

23. I care

While Heston is walking through a role created by others, Card is the God creating the characters. His values infuse everything he does.

I agree that he is a skilled writer who makes his books enjoyable. As did L. Ron Hubbard. But if one steps back and looks at the characters and plot independent of the reading experience -- well they don't display values that I'm comfortable with.

[WhollyHeretic]

19. I used to be a huge Card fan but

I read some horrible comments on his web page after 9/11. The gist of the comments was that we kill everyone in the middle east. I've not been able to read him again since then. I really did love his books, I got a lot of people I know to read them. Some of the underlying themes of some of his books creeped me out occasionally but I put up with it until I read those 9/11 comments.

[Mistwell]

20. Ever listen to Wagner?

I listen to Wagner, and love it. The man was an anti-semite. But his music is beautiful. You have to be able to seperate the art from the artist, or you will be doomed entering any museum or music hall or theatre in the nation...unless you take the time to educate yourself on each and every artist's political views beforehand. And failing to so educate yourself would be hypocritical by intentionally hiding from the truth.

So really, you have no choice about it - you have to be able to judge the art on its own merit, apart from the creator of that art. And in that sense, Card is a fine writer of some really high quality science fiction.

And no, I am not afraid that his has some insideous message deeply buried in his words that will influence me in the future. I have enough self-confidence in my own belief system to know that it's silly to fear reading a kids sci-fi book.

[WhollyHeretic]

21. You're taking what I said and going off on a tangent with it

You need to watch the condescension with the snide remarks about things you assume I'm thinking. I said I was uncomfortable with some of undertones to his books before I read those nasty remarks of his. Novels especially are a part of the author. I just had no desire to read or give anymore money to such a violent person. It was my personal choice.

Art and appreciation of art are very personal things. No one can tell someone else what to enjoy or how to enjoy it no matter how arrogant and assuming they are.

[Mistwell]

22. Confusion

Ahem...the comment you think was directed at you was not. Someone else said in a much more direct way that the messages in his books were insideously influential, and so I added that part at the end as a response to that. I was not trying to tell you what you were thinking, I was responding to what others had directly said they were thinking. Sorry if you thought that part was directed to you.

The beginning part, however, was directed at you. I'd be happy to read and respond to anything you have to say on that part.

[Onceuponalife]

25. So, anyway...

...can't wait for the next Card book!:P

[akarnitz]

26. I agree w/Mistwell and onceuponalife

and I've another fr'instance: Cat Stevens. I grew up listening to him(mom was a big fan) and have been giving his albums as gifts for at least 25 years. I can't stomach his fundamental views and statements, such as when he called for Salman Rushdie's scalp. His art stands on its own merits, however.
As for the "Ender's..." series, "Speaker For The Dead" is my fave. I've read it twice and was just as misted up the second time.
I'm also a fan of the Alvin Maker series. I'm an avid history reader who also enjoys alternate history, and this series is top notch alt. hist..

[pitohui]

28. we feed those who would crush us

the other side has no problem w. only giving financial & emotional support to those who support them

no wonder we lose


when you give money to bad men, you give money to bad actions