"The Fountainhead", by Ayn Rand-anyone ever heard of it?

[yellowdoginGA]

My AP english teacher assigned this book yesterday. My father has never read it (this is his account), and suggested I check in here for information. Mr. Hildebrand would not tell the class anything, but the book has a cool art-deco style cover. Thanks ,in advance, for any help or advice.

[NoPasaran]

1. It makes an excellent doorstop

[yellowdoginGA]

7. Why? what's the matter with it?

[NoPasaran]

Page after page of drivel

Ayn Rand developed a philosophy called "objevtivism", and wrote her boring novels to inflict them on a helpless planet. "Objectivism" amounts to "I've got mine, fuck everybody else". Some people think Ayn Rand (who thankfully is now dead) is a genius... I'd rather be torn apart by wild animals than have to read her crap again.

[Warpy]

65. It's the most readable of all her novels

but that is a very, very low standard, indeed. My advice is to skip the book and rent the movie. Really.

"The Fountainhead" is generally the first Rand book people read, and is probably her most persuasive. They become hard, humorless jerks until they either read more of her appalling works or they grow up a little, have children, and start to understand why altruism is a vital human trait.

Some never do that, though, and they turn into Alan Greenspan if they're born rich, socially isolated dweebs if they are not, with the latter having a propensity for snapping and becoming publicaly violent.

I read Ayn Rand's stuff when I was about 16 with the same degree of skepticism I'd brought to Marx at the age of 12. I found Marx more nourishing, but that both philosophies/economic theories depended heavily on the perfection of the human race in order to succeed. I finished "Atlas Shrugged" in gales of silly giggles as I tried to imagine her hard, driven heroes and heroines with whiny toddlers clinging to them, which should tell you exactly where all that stuff breaks down completely.

Randism appeals most strongly to angry young men between the ages of 14 and 25, and that should tell you something else.

I do recommend people read Rand to find out what all the fuss is about. If they're aspiring writers, they'll find a study in appallingly bad style, so that's instructive, too. Just be aware that "The Fountainhead" can be rather seductive and that you don't get to the real (decaying) meat of her ideas until you progress to her other books.

[MISSDem]

95. Funny, some people say the same thing about Faulkner. Once again,

it depends on what one likes.

[pnwmom]

101. Faulkner was a real novelist. Ayn Rand was a polemicist.

Her "novels" were thinly disguised political screeds.

[Terran1212]

97. A pack of students at my high school are amazed by her

They are obsessed with the individual, individual liberty against all, a society with no obligations to eachother, every action is motivated by self-interest in a convoluted way, etc.


I'm a senior now and will be going to college in a few months, and am hoping to discover that a Rand cult has not developed there as well.

I'm mature enough to realize that our societies and civilizations have not succeeded on Randian principles, and whatever clever points she can bring about do not change the fact that social interaction and caring is something that isn't going to go away with any diatribe.

[pnwmom]

102. There will probably be some Rand fans at your college, too, but it

won't matter, because most colleges are big enough that you can stay away from the kids who drive you crazy! (Unlike high school, where you're stuck in one or two buildings with them all day.)

[Terran1212]

105. My High school has about 3000 people and my college will have 30,000

I'm going to UGA next year so maybe I can have some diversity with 10 times the size.

Most people in my high school don't know ayn rand but the "intellectual" clique does seem to have caught on to her.

[ClintonTyree]

2. Oh boy.........

:popcorn:

[tatertop]

12. I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole

:popcorn:

[arcane1]

17. even if the pole was made of Rearden Steel?

:silly:

[Coexist]

24. too flippin' funny.

[Coexist]

40. I have been searching - there is a post on DU somewhere

that an author rips Ayn Rand in her own silly prose. If you have it, please post it.

[tatertop]

41. That's good

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. Heard of but not read. Seems like she's an author that is a big hit with

free marketeers.

[movonne]

4. Yes..and there is a movie out on this...

[Coexist]

5. out of everything - its her best - but....

Ayn Rand has a loathing of anything liberal.

That aside - she takes 2,000 words to say, awkwardly and with one-dimensional characters, what a gifted writer can convey in 300.

Sorry.

[mitchum]

14. That's why I never call her a hack...

a hack can, at least, write with facility. Rand was just clumsy and inept.

[Coexist]

16. LOL!

[EC]

50. Yet if you read "We the Living"

she pretty much contradicts herself by seeming almost liberal, the same with Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. When I read them I dismissed her theory of selfishness being good and came to opposite conclusions, with well if there really were a perpetual motor, just think of the new industries and good it could do, rather than her view of a falling economy...rather approach it with a countering debate...

[Coexist]

55. I can't see Atlas Shrugged without mentally picturing

the scenes in Reardon's parlor where the "useless liberals" planning their next benefit or cause, while Reardon 'shaped the future'. And the liberal business leaders having Machiavellian meetings in dark bars over expensive whiskey were cartoonish.

The entire book lived on the premise that without a few key 'leaders' industry and society would collapse. Well, sorry to burst her bubble, but the worker bees are the ones who drive business - the leaders merely guide. Her premise is, to me, foolish and egocentric.

[EC]

58. agree... n/t

[Boojatta]

100. Three questions

The entire book lived on the premise that without a few key 'leaders' industry and society would collapse. Well, sorry to burst her bubble, but the worker bees are the ones who drive business - the leaders merely guide. Her premise is, to me, foolish and egocentric.

Aren't there at least three possibilities: progress, regression, and absence of significant change?

Have there been times and places when labor and management both existed, but little progress occurred?

Would it be foolish and egocentric to consider the possibility that some inventors and theorists deserve credit for much of the progress that has occurred?

[bettyellen]

63. by her own reasoning, a TALENTED WRITER should burn all her books...

although i think in real life talented people don't think like her cardboard characters...

[joemurphy]

6. It's one of the books Libertarians swear by...

Hardly a classic. Sounds like your AP English teacher has an agenda.

[khashka]

56. Don't tar us all with the same brush

I'm a Libertarian.... but not the sort of Libertarian who hates poor people.

And I can't stand Ayn Rand.


Khash.

[arcane1]

59. true that

I'm not a Libertarian, but I love the hell out of Ron Paul for some reason

even voted for him for prez once :)

[sendero]

8. The Objectivist manifesto..

... as bankrupt a philosophy as has ever been envisioned.

[yellowdoginGA]

11. What's objectivist mean?

[Tace]

19. ob·jec·tiv·ism

( P ) Pronunciation Key (b-jkt-vzm)
n.

1. Philosophy. One of several doctrines holding that all reality is objective and external to the mind and that knowledge is reliably based on observed objects and events.
2. An emphasis on objects rather than feelings or thoughts in literature or art.

[DJ MEW]

35. it's a type of philosophy

Ayn Rand is pretty much the creator of it.

My High School World Literature Teacher asked me to read it when I was in high school. If you write an essay discussing the book and turn it in to the Ayn Rand Institute you could win up to 10,000 dollars.

Liberals have no chance of winning though. I wrote a damn good essay on it but it wasn't conservative enough to even make an honorable mention.

[soothsayer]

90. My dentist is an objectivist. Have to see the effer tomorrow. Ugh.

[catbert836]

93. Curious

You'd think as an Objectivist, he wouldn't have a profession where he has to "live for the sake of other men"- or repairing their teeth, anyway. ;-)

[PDJane]

44. Objectivism

is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.

The primacy of reason entails that egoism - a reasoned and enlightened search for self-interest - is the way to live objectively.

Objectivism repudiates any ideology of sacrifice, any demand to subject man to degrading rules in order to "be moral", as if morality was some kind of holy unattainable pedestal. There is no dichotomy between the moral and the practical, the good and our lives. Ethics is not a religious duty or a secular burden : rather, it is our means to a fulfilled life.

One does not live for the sake of being moral; one acts morally in order to make the most out of his life.

Please note that there is a contradiction in those who espouse both Rand and religion, because the idea of objectivism is antithecal to religion.

Ms. Rand was one of the folks who claimed that taxes were immoral.

Ms. Rand was a Russian emigré who left her family and Russia due to the Communist revolution and the resultant grinding poverty.

I have many objections to her work, among them the belief that the heroic man rarely exists on his own....there are any number of people behind him, those who cared for, educated, and loved him not among the least.

I believe that heroic lives are all too often a myth. Ms. Rand herself was the product of a comfortable middle class home and a decent education. I don't think she could possibly conceive of a life lived without opportunity.

[unpossibles]

108. the perfect answer

"I have many objections to her work, among them the belief that the heroic man rarely exists on his own....there are any number of people behind him, those who cared for, educated, and loved him not among the least.

I believe that heroic lives are all too often a myth. Ms. Rand herself was the product of a comfortable middle class home and a decent education. I don't think she could possibly conceive of a life lived without opportunity."

On the one hand, while I do believe that a large amount of our own sacrifices can be driven by "selfish" desires (we often do things because it feels good or feels right, or because we would not be able to ignore the awful feeling of ignoring someone's plea for help), I completely hate the idea of the "self made man" that is so popular among Libertarians.

It is a myth - none of us exist in a vaccuum, and to be honest, most Libertarians I know come from backgrounds where they had so many more opportunities than others that it's ridiculous. I like to ask them: "when your house catches on fire, do you plan on refusing to call the fire department?" or how anyone can expect to make something of themselves without the support group of a society which has the ability to purchase your product, drive to your store on public roads, etc.

Sorry - i am rambling. Rand is very over-rated. I liked the Fountainhead, but couldn't stand the rest of her work.

[mitchum]

9. It's a piece of potboiler crap wriiten by a lunatic with a tin ear

Ayn Rand:
rotten novelist
rotten philosopher
rotten excuse for a human being

[arcane1]

10. what school would recommend that tripe?

[tatertop]

13. I am kind of curious about that myself

[mitchum]

22. As am I...

Rand was certainly adolescent in her worldview, but I'm wondering why her tripe would be assigned reading in an AP class

[mitchum]

23. As am I...

Rand was certainly adolescent in her worldview, but I'm wondering why her tripe would be assigned reading in an AP class

[havocmom]

15. Was thinking about Rand today. Wondering how she died

An acquaintance of mine, a rabid Ayn Rand fan, is getting on in years. She is bitter, lonely and empty. She has LOTS of material possessions. But getting them cost her all traces of humanity and loving contacts. So pathetic. And so predictable.

Thinking Rand probably went out the same way.

Read it and keep in mind the shit that is being told to Americans today.

[mitchum]

27. As Phil Donahue once said (with seeming glee) "She died alone"

It's really the only time I ever saw Mr Nice have a nasty edge, but who could blame him?

[MrMonk]

61. She died of a drug overdose; some kind of upper.

Probably lay there in her own vomit until someone found her.

Members of the Rand cult typically blame her former protege and lover, psychiatrist Nathaniel Branden, for turning her into an addict. Branden seems to be the Judas/Loki of their mythology.

I also recall that Bill Buckley wrote a sort of obit for her that earned him the hatred of some Rand fanatics. It was in the New York Times, I believe. In his erudite and indirect way, he left a clear impression that he regarded her as a pseudo-intellectual with a borderline personality disorder. He mentioned that she had once tried to ingratiate herself with him with the line "you are too intelligent to believe in God." He also recounted being present at a meeting between Rand and her adopted economic-hero-of-the-moment, Ludwig van Mies (I may not have the first name correct; I don't think of him often). Rand pestered van Mies to listen to her economic theories, which did not interest him at all. When he rebuffed her, she protested (according to Buckley) "You are treating me like I am just a little Jewish girl!" (implying that she was someone to be reckoned with.) Van Mies responded, "Miss Rand, you *are* just a little Jewish girl." Her followers dismissed Buckley's reminiscences as impossible, deriding him as being a socialist dupe and "not too intelligent to believe in God."

[havocmom]

62. Isn't the poetry of life a think of horrible beauty?

Thanks for reminding me. I seem to be forgetting more than seems possible these days. Seemed to recall she was alone and probably suicidal. Gee, guess she learned the hard way.

[MrMonk]

68. There was a TV movie about Ayn Rand starring Helen Mirren

on one of the cable movie channels (Showtime?). It was shown only a few years ago, and apparently was never seen again. I tried to rent it on tape or DVD and was unsuccessful. It is available on Amazon, if anyone cares.

[havocmom]

84. Saw part of that film Mirren was so good as Rand that I got ill watching

and had to turn it off.

Mirren is one of our age's greatest actors. Rand was a louse. Mirren did the role well from what I watched.

[bobalu]

18. She makes a virtue of selfishness

which should tell you why it's a hit with Libertarians and FreeMarketers.

[boobooday]

20. Ayn Rand

Rabid capitalist.

Heroine of the right.

Defender of the powerful.

The Rand Institute is named after her.

I almost killed my son when he was reading "Atlas Shrugged." He even came home with a t-shirt that said "W Stands For Women." I guess that's the only way to rebel against a liberal mom. The ideas he shared with me from the book were despicable. Let the weak die, etc.

He's over it now. I worked too hard to teach him compassion for him to fall for that crap for very long.

I like your Dad's style! I was a lit major, but my professors would almost HISS when her name came up. Therefore, we were never assigned the books. I know they didn't agree with her philosophies, but also seemed to think she was full of it in other ways as well.

Check it out, but keep Rand's very clear agenda in mind. Then, bring all your critical thinking skills to bear when writing about her (as I'm sure you will have to).

[arcane1]

26. they were also shittily-written books

agenda aside, she's a horrid, talentless writer

[boobooday]

30. Yes, I think that is what my professor hated the most

Pompous, self-important . . . the Dennis Miller of the literary world.

[arcane1]

36. and like the other poster said, way way WAY too "wordy"

hell that radio broadcast in Atlas Shrugged could put a PCP-overdoser to sleep

[regnaD kciN]

74. No kidding...

If she hadn't had her illogical, emotion-driven "philosophy" to flog through her writing, she might have been able to make a career as a third-rate romance novelist.

[yellowdoginGA]

34. My teacher has an agenda?

The last book he assigned was "The Hand-Maids Tale". It seemed more an attack on religious conservatism. He also assigned "To Kill A Mockingbird". That book didn't seem conservative either.

[boobooday]

38. No, I said Ayn Rand had an agenda

I don't know your teacher. Maybe he wants you to see for yourself!

[yellowdoginGA]

42. Someone earlier said it

You just seemed to know more of what you were talking about.

[boobooday]

47. I think it is important to take in everything

And your teacher is probably just trying to introduce you to a book that has influenced a lot of people.

I personally read a lot of stuff written by people I don't agree with. Sharpens the mind, and the claws. :-)

It sounds like you have really got an earful about ol Ayn! Now you get to decide for yourself.

Check back in and let us know what you thought when you get done reading!

[eek]

107. sounds as if your teacher is quite smart and is

introducing y'all to a variety of things - letting you compare different styles and viewpoints, running the books through your own brain and your own thoughts, developing your own critical thinking as opposed to just accepting someone else's opinion.

[MrMonk]

71. It's the "Ayn Rand Institute"

Not to be confused with the "Rand Corporation".

[ChairmanAgnostic]

21. read it decades ago. Read it again last year, just to see why neocons love

it so much.
It pretends to support the power of one (damn, like today's military) over any social organization. Labor is evil, social unions are worse, only the one survives.

[1956]

25. However in the old movie

Gary Cooper and Patricia Neal were pretty good, but then GC is one of my faves from that era. I know, that doesn't help at all.

[mitchum]

32. The movie is a great camp classic...

and Patricia Neal is lovely in it.

[regnaD kciN]

75. The movie was assigned to King Vidor...

...a renowned and quite left-wing director. Rand was apparently Not Happy At All with the choice, and apparently had her own lawyer on set, ready to sue if even one word of her sacrosanct screenplay was changed.

No wonder it turned out so campy.

[rock]

70. Great movie

Course I'm an old guy.

[MrMonk]

72. Cooper, O'Neill, Raymond Massie

and the director was big name, too. It took all that talent to turn Rand's script into a passable movie.

[1620rock]

29. Her other book "Atlas Shrugged" is just as bad.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

39. Anthem was at least creative, for the first 50 pages.

the word "I" was banned.
After the idea wore off, that book quickly became predictable and boring.

[phantom power]

43. She never thought "labor is evil."

She was a die-hard lassaize faire capitalist (which I think she was wrong about), but she believed in earning success. She had nothing but respect for people who worked for a living.

What she would have hated are people like George Bush, or Ken Lay. People who produce nothing, and get rich off the backs of others.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

49. I meant collective labor - ie unions, trade groups, commissions, etc.

She obviously missed out on how the Atom bomb was designed - pure group think. Or the first Moon mission. Or the first Nuke sub. Or the constitution of the US. Or the modern G-5 mac.

[phantom power]

57. Yes, but... not exactly.

I think it's important to understand how her early experiences with the Communist Russia shaped her (arguably, twisted her). I don't think she could ever emotionally separate the concept of organized labor from the fascism of the USSR. It caused her to pursue the purest forms of capitalism, and work them into her philosophy. She was brilliant, but not pragmatic.

For instance, her heros willingly cooperate with each other. In "Atlas Shrugged," her little utopian community at the end has all kinds of cooperation. In her ideal world, everybody would respect each other for their particular talents, and play whatever part they could in various projects, to make a living.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

64. Ah, how true, but she failed to realize how they capitalized on the backs

of others, especially in terms of technology.

[phantom power]

83. She had a blind spot for the abuses of capitalism, I think.

Probably because she saw it as the antithesis of everything she hated about the Soviets. It's a shame, since it partly poisoned her work.

[Tace]

28. FYI -- Greenspan Attended Rand Salons Some 50 Years Ago

In the middle of the last century, Rand held "salons," or meetings at her house to drink wine and talk about stuff. Alan Greenspan is noted for having taken part in these salons.

[Angry Girl]

31. You should definitely read it

It's a well-written book. I personally was quite seduced by Ayn Rand's style when I first read some of her works but I don't think it turned me into a monster or anything (said the flaming liberal). Of course, I can better tear apart her arguments now but don't let that scare you out of making your own impressions. You should never NOT read something because someone else told you so.

Just read it with an open mind and an inquiring mind, like anything else, and question the consequences of the philosophies presented, the consequences on society as a whole, on the less fortunate, on the physically or mentally handcapped, etc.

[phantom power]

33. Hard to sum Rand up, in 25 words or less.

She escaped Communist Russia, and had a die-hard hatred of anything that even smelled like Socialism or Communism. I'd say she got that part wrong, and she's certainly demonized by many liberals for her pure-capitalist positions.

On the other hand, she also had a lot to say about how the world would be a better place, if people used their damned heads more often, which is hard to argue with. Objectivism, the name for her philosophy, placed a high value of applying logic and reason to all facets of life. I rather like that. I think she was in denial about certain facts of human nature, especially the ways in which we aren't logical (of which there are many).

One thing that her critics sometimes miss: She would have hated Bush and the rest of the neo-cons, and everything they stand for. Above anything else, she believed in living a reality-based life, and earning success. Can you imagine the infinite contempt she'd have for a cretin like Bush?

[Angry Girl]

46. Very true

She would have despised scumbag Bush, who never worked a day in his life. There is honor in working hard for something and obtaining it, a concept that is alien to the little shit.

[TabulaRasa]

85. No, she wouldn't have

I'm not that familiar with her work, but she was stridently opposed to all forms of inheritance taxes, and didn't begrudge scumbags like Bush their inheritance. In her warped view, which is given more serious (though equally illogical) underpinnings by the philosopher Robert Nozick (in Anarchy, State, and Utopia), if you have it by the workings of free markets, then you deserve it.

[regnaD kciN]

76. Contempt, yes, but support as well...

One thing that her critics sometimes miss: She would have hated Bush and the rest of the neo-cons, and everything they stand for. Above anything else, she believed in living a reality-based life, and earning success. Can you imagine the infinite contempt she'd have for a cretin like Bush?

Oh, she had lots of contempt for Republicans, mainly for not being sufficiently "logical" to embrace her philosophy in toto. But that wouldn't have stopped her from giving them her wholehearted support against the far-worse Democrats.

Just as she supported Nixon against McGovern in 1972, despite making known how much she couldn't stand him.

And as, previously, she campaigned for Wilkie against FDR, then later blasted the former for "letting her down" by not basing his campaign on her philosophy.

And as she claimed the "proudest day of her life" was when she testified before HUAC about "Communist infiltration in Hollywood" (one of the highlights was her singling out the fact that the characters in "Song of Russia" were shown smiling as pure subversive propaganda inserted by Commie screenwriters -- because, in reality, people in the U.S.S.R. never smiled, since they were living under the oppression of Communism :crazy: ), even though I'm sure she would claim nothing but contempt for Joe McCarthy and his ilk.

[stopbush]

37. Looks like a great opportunity for you to write a negative

critique of the ridiculous Rand.

Have fun. Your instructor may not appreciate it, but WTH!

[DBoon]

45. Check out the floating head of ayn rand

for some satire:

http://www.saintaardvarkthecarpeted.com/ayn_rand/

[shain from kane]

48. Saw Anthem and We the Living at the Shelter Shop today.

Used paperbacks. Sitting on the shelves all by themselves. As expected. No one was buying them today. Things change. And that's the facts, Jack.

[NMDemDist2]

51. IIRC it's the Libertarian Bible

:rofl:

[mitchum]

52. Her real name was Alice Rosenbaum...

the reason that Ayn Rand sounds like some kind of "cool name made up by a teenage girl" is that she was an eternal adolescent. Dumb kids.

[Richard D]

53. Anyone who reads Ayn Rand . . .

. . . should know this info about one of Ayn's hero's : http://michaelprescott.net/hickman.htm

William Edward Hickman was one of the most famous men in America in 1928. But he came by his fame in a way that perhaps should have given pause to Ayn Rand before she decided that he was a "real man" worthy of enshrinement in her pantheon of fictional heroes.

You see, Hickman was a forger, an armed robber, a child kidnapper, and a multiple murderer.

Other than that, he was probably a swell guy.

In December of 1927, Hickman, nineteen years old, showed up at a Los Angeles public school and managed to get custody of a twelve-year-old girl, Marian (sometimes Marion) Parker. He was able to convince Marian's teacher that the girl's father, a well-known banker, had been seriously injured in a car accident and that the girl had to go to the hospital immediately. The story was a lie. Hickman disappeared with Marian, and over the next few days Mr. and Mrs. Parker received a series of ransom notes. The notes were cruel and taunting and were sometimes signed "Death" or "Fate." The sum of $1,500 was demanded for the child's safe release. (Hickman needed this sum, he later claimed, because he wanted to go to Bible college!) The father raised the payment in gold certificates and delivered it to Hickman. As told by the article "Fate, Death and the Fox" in crimelibrary.com,

[RaleighNCDUer]

67. A fascinating essay - and suddenly, I understand Objectivism.

It is the codification of the world view of a sociopath.

Rand, herself, was a sociopath, who was intelligent and rational enough to do no more with her pathology than to create 'objectivism'. The virtue of selfishness, the belief in one's superiority, the belief that the individual (i.e., herself) is a better judge of the world than is the society that she lives in.

It explains her, and all those who worship her.

[Richard D]

73. It also explains . . .

. . . their near reverence for *, another psychopath.

[khashka]

54. I read it - utter crap

My boyfriend wanted me to read it. The most meaningful book he'd ever read. Give me a fuckin' break. The old "I'm an undiscovered genius" crap that most of us grow out of in adolescence?

And is it The Fountainhead or Atlas Shrugged where the hero rapes a woman and she's so grateful for it? But then what else would you expect from a speedfreak? Ayn Rand had a serious addiction to crystal.

I hate her. She totally ruined Libertarianism with her Objectivist Philosophy. Crap philosophy, crap politics, crap writing. But a nice art deco cover.


Khash.

[regnaD kciN]

77. Now, that sounds like a familiar experience...

My college girlfriend encouraged me to read those novels. (Rand was her favorite novelist and philosopher.) Let's just say it was the beginning of the end of that relationship.

[Richard D]

60. Another important critical essay

http://www.2think.org/02_2_she.shtml

[Igel]

66. Enjoy.

It's a kind of morality tale, with both sides in caricature. Not that there aren't people at the extremes, of course; there are politicians and activists on both sides of the aisle that do such a good job of caricaturing themselves that nothing more can be added. Thankfully, _Fountainhead_ is shorter than _Atlas Shrugged_. It's also the lesser read of the two lumps.

How you spin it these days depends on your politics and on your philosophy, possibly in equal measure, and what use you want to make of it. It has good points, bad points, both of philosophy and style. She was very polarizing, even early on, and struck a very harsh, bitter polemical tone in her "serious" works. Many 2nd wave Russian emigres were little better, and a few were even worse in their tone. That little backwater of politics has been harsh and bitter for a long time now, on both sides. Stalin, and esp. Lenin, frequently weren't seen as bad guys in the '30s and '40s, by intellectuals, and doubts only really arose after the Berlin airlift and the "Iron Curtain" descended. They had defenders in the US into the '50s, and the Soviet Union had defenders into the early '70s; Rand thought them and their supporters utterly insane. When you believe you have narrowly fled a soul-crushing evil regime that could have destroyed you, and the society that you find yourself in refuses to believe you, and even thinks you're exaggerating, it makes *you* a bit insane.

You want a "fun" counterweight and the necessary context to _Fountainhead_, try reading some Soviet works from the period of "militant" Communism, things like Kataev's _Time, Forward_ or Gladkov's _Cement_, for comparison. The individual counts for nothing, has no right to the benefits of his/her labor that everybody else doesn't also have equal right to: the Party is all-wise and all-knowing. That kind of objectivism and biting secularism is parallel to Rand's, but is one in which history is not of individuals, but of the collective, with *forced* collectivism paramount and worshipped, even if it kills hundreds of thousands of people in its stupidity. Dudintsev's _Not by bread alone_ is sort of a spineless _Fountainhead_, in some regard, I guess.

[mikeiddy]

69. My Introduction to Ayn Rand

When I was in high school, I happened to run into a friend on my parents in a gas station. He had just left his wife of many years and two small children, to run off with his business partner's wife. In our brief conversation he told me that he had just read the Fountainhead, and that it had changed his life.

I read the book just to see what it was that could make a person do what he had done. I've not had the desire to read any of her other books.

[DBoon]

78. Read it!!

It has influenced many people including some with great economic and political power.

At least when I was in high school, there were always a couple of Ayn Rand fans who hung on her every writing. You may have already run into a few yourself.

I do think she is a mean spirited lunatic, but people like that are all around and it is important to understand them, and to come up with alternative views of humanity and human existance.

For example, try to figure out her definition of "freedom" and how it might differ from yours.

[yellowdoginGA]

79. Another Question

There seems to be two main points within everyone's comments. How bad here writing is and how persuasive her books are. How can both be true?

[DBoon]

80. If you can figure that out, you will get an 'A' on the assignment

report back to DU, too. We'd all love to hear how this dilemma is resolved.

[phantom power]

81. I think it's more accurate to say her writing was uneven, not bad.

She could be very eloquent, but sometimes she had all the subtlety of a 2x4 to the head.

[mitchum]

86. No, she was bad, but she did have the remarkable ability to write...

purple prose with a tin ear. Which is a seemingly impossible task.
She was too clumsy a writer to even be classified as a hack.

[phantom power]

88. I'll agree to disagree.

[mitchum]

87. Well, her books aren't persuasive, but rather reinforce existing...

preconceptions.
There is a difference.

[phantom power]

89. One other thing to keep in mind about Rand's books...

she wrote her fiction specifically as a vehicle for popularizing her philosophy. She considered herself a working philosopher first, fiction author second. In this sense, there is an interesting parallel with Tolkien. Tolkien wrote his Middle Earth fiction as a vehicle for his linguistics. He was a professional linguist first, and fiction author second. And, like Ayn Rand, his writing is uneven. But neither of them came at their fiction from the perspective of a novelist, they were professionals who viewed their novels as vehicles for their work.

One other thing about Rand, English was not her native language. She wrote Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged in English. In long-hand, if I remember correctly(!)

[catbert836]

91. They can be persuasive to a large audience

who don't read as much as we do. The less you read, the better bad writing will seem to you.

[Matilda]

82. I think people should read books like The Fountainhead

so they know what they're up against.

When I first read it in my twenties, there were parts of her philosophy that I liked, and I can still
appreciate the idea of the noncomformist who refuses to compromise his ideas or his ideals to the
mass market. I believe the character of Howard Roarke was supposed to be based on Frank Lloyd
Wright, a man ahead of his times and therefore unacceptable to many.

What Rand lacked though was not only a sense of altruism, but also compassion. Her idea is that the
only value for human beings lies in following their own path, beholden to none, but this also
includes no help for anyone less talented, less educated, less spirited than themselves. There is
some validity in her theory of the necessity of treading your own path (George W Bush is a very good
example of how not to do it), but none at all in the inherent coldness of her philosphy.

But to understand a certain brand of conservative philosophy that is all too prevalent today, it's
a valuable tool.

[catbert836]

92. Remember a few things as you read it.

I'm not a fan of Rand's writings (in fact I vehemently denounce them on any occasion I get) but i support reading them as a way to know what we're up against. Since you're already a *gasp* liberal, I doubt you'll find much persuasive power in them, but remember a few things as you're reading The Fountainhead:

1. Rand's only goal in writing novels was to popularize her so-called philosophy Objectivism. Thus, the quality of her fiction was somewhat lacking. I'm talking most of all about her carachters- you'll notice that they're either virtuous or evil, with nothing in between, really.
2. As to objectivism itself, it comes out of a mind that never really matured. Rand, I don't think, never really got over the Bolsheviks taking her family's wealth away during the revolution, and that formed the whole basis of her "philosophy", which boils down to: if you can make your own way, screw everyone else.
3. The reason her works are so popular is they're a glorification of our most negative values- selfishness and narcissism, mainly. People, especially stupid people, like that, because Rand tells them these negative attributes are actually positive. Both the Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged got terrible critical receptions, so their popular appeal is really all they have going for them.
4. Above all, keep a critical and analytical mind in regards to the book.

Good luck, you'll need it.

[MISSDem]

94. It is a great story and was made into

a really good movie. It is all about individualism.

[pnwmom]

103. I don't understand how a Democrat could say that any of Rand's

books was a "great story."

Her philosophy isn't compatible with Democrats of any stripe, as far as I can see.

[scubadude]

96. Ayn Rand, I loath her writings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivist_philosophy#Ethics:_rational_self-interest

[PATRICK]

99. For balance

read her interesting bashing of fascists in America. That essay is interesting if you assume her personality and ideology is detestable. For her time, the challenging thuggish authoirty of supreme mediocrity were coporate overlords, not liberal repressers of liberties. Her heroes are grandiose, self-absorbed, persecuted, non-populist to put it mildly. It certainly helps to muddy up the impressions the novel gives. It also explains why Rand really has been in no-man's land(pun intended) with the radical right except in careful borrowings. Like Macchiavelli her elitist selfishness is too open, her idealism too hostile to the extreme, idiotic right, too unpopular a personality to be iconized- and a woman on top of it all.

Google Ayn Rand and fascism and prepare for some interesting essays. She was against Reagan for example.

[im10ashus]

98. What school do you go to that would assign that for reading.

Rand is a horrible writer whose philosophy, if you want to call it that, is everyone for themselves. She's a favorite of the corporate conservatives.

[vorlund]

104. I haven't read that book...

but I have read "Atlas Shrugged." I remember starting off at the beginning of the book agreeing with a lot of her ideas, but as the novel progressed and the characters began to take those philosophies to an extreme her arguments started to appear completely ridiculous. I was a Junior in high school at the time, which probably explains my initial reaction to her philosophies. (One of those angry 15-24 year old males another poster talked about)

Oddly enough, the very next book I read was "Stranger in a Strange Land" by Robert Heinlein, yet another author who wrote a number of books where the narrative is interlaced with political philosophies and characters that lean towards exaggerated good/evil dichotomy. Heinlein was a much more talented writer though.

For a completely opposing view of an individual's role in a society, read some of the works of Kropotkin.

[GymDude]

106. Atlas Shrugged

My boyfriend and I decided to lend each other our favorite books to read. He's not much of a reader, and esp. not fiction, so I should have known better. He gave me "Atlas Shrugged". Ugh. I am about 1/5 through it and I despise all of the characters, and it's pretty dry going. I hope the bf doesn't really buy into all of her philosophy. (By the way, I gave him "A Confederacy of Dunces" to read. I figured that was a safe bet.)

[CAcyclist]

109. Ecch, not literature nt