BOOK CLUB SEPTEMBER: "Freakonomics"

[CrispyQ]

"Freakonomics: A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side of Everything" by Steven D. Levitt, Stephen J. Dubner

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/006073132X/qid=1125586710/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-5792740-7358366?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

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Book Club Guidelines:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=209&topic_id=1152

[closeupready]

1. I read this.

It was a very good read, although I'm not so sure how groundbreaking this stuff was.

By that I mean, I felt that much of the causation he points to could equally be argued as mere correlation.

And I also thought that it's unrealistic to argue that statistics is going to save the world, given how politics dictates how things get done, despite the facts and the truth. So, for example, with the teachers in California and Chicago example, he makes it seem as though administrators, armed with the statistics, simply went and fired the wayward educators. It's just not that easy or simple to fire unionized public servants.

Or with the sumo wrestlers, even just describing the statistical facts can get you into trouble.

But despite that quibbling, it was a very fun, informative read!

[NMMNG]

2. Welcome to DU closeupready!

[NMMNG]

3. I read the book several weeks ago (Spoilers included)

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I found it to be an intriguing read, and very understandable at that (typically anything involving economics or numbers is like a foreign language to me).



The explanation as to why most crack dealers live with their mothers was informative, eliminating the stereotype of the rich drug dealer (Chapter 3). It was also both humorous and sad at the same time to think that so many young people waste their lives in this manner, and at such risk.

And the notion that the drop in crime might be linked to the advent of Roe v. Wade was both provocative and troubling (Chapter 4). It does make sense that many of the women who seek abortion are poor, and that if they are forced to have their babies those children will grow up under adverse conditions. I would have to do some research to see if, as the book claims, a higher percentage of violent and property crime is committed by the poor. I'm also leery of the premise that abortion is good because it keeps the criminal element from ever being born. If poverty is truly a major cause of crime we need to eliminate poverty, not advocate abortion for desperate mothers who can't afford their babies. (I am pro-choice, but not for such a reason)

I'm also not sure about how adamant the authors are that nature is the only source for a child's personality and potential (Chapter 5). According to everything they write, nothing a parent/guardian does will have any effect, so they might as well do nothing.

The treatise on naming is rather intersting (Chapter 6). Given research I've seen on employers tendency to favor white candidates over black, it does seem logical that having a "white-sounding" name could be benefical over a distinctly "black-sounding" name. (However, once again, the preferable thing to do would be to fix the flaws in society rather than force others to adapt to them.) The name charts, depicting changes in popular names over time and "high-end" vs. "low-end" names (and how one becomes the other) were also quite amusing. I was surprised to find that people actually don't name their babies after celebrities as much as I thought they did (e.g., Britney Spears).


All in all, I'd give the book a 6.5 out of 10.

[pstans]

4. I wasn't going to read this book, but

I saw it at the library, it was short and seemed like an easy read.

The part at the beginning concerning the drop in the crime rate makes sense. Abortions would have an effect, but I am not sure if it has as large of effect as the other says. Linking the 2 toes the line between morality and policy and I can see why there aren't any politicians linking the 2. If a politician came out and said that legal abortions reduces crime, they would get lambasted by both Republicans and Democrats (though for different reasons).

So far this book has been interesting, and I look forward to reading more.

[pstans]

5. We are seeing the blacklash on the abortion being the cause of lower crime

Bill Bennett's comments were made when he was discussing the assertions that were made in Freakonomics about the cause of lower crime rate in the 90's is legalized abortion. Bennett's comments were racially insensitive, so he got a double whammy touching on race and abortion in the same comment. The post on the main page about Reducing poverty for all American babies will lower the crime rate is excellent and I hope that Democrats start using that language.

The part on the cheating of the Chicago teachers was also interesting. I am going to be a teacher and am student teaching now. After reading that I wasn't angry at the teachers that cheated, but I was more against the use of standardized tests. I don't think it was right for the teachers to cheat, it is never right for anyone to cheat (baseball players, Republican House leaders, etc). The main thing I got out of this section is that teachers are forced to take class time away to teach to the test. It is not important for students to be able to take a test. It is important for them to be able to solve problems, work with people, and be a good citizen.

[CrispyQ]

6. When I was a kid we had achievement tests,

but they were only administered to certain grade levels -- not yearly. I think I recall testing in 3rd, 6th & 9th grades, & that was it.

I got in trouble in 9th grade taking my test. I was always intimidated by what I thought was stupid testing method that didn't really determine if I grasped the topic matter at all. On day two of our testing, I decided that I would simply select all the "B" answers. I finished a 2-hour session in about 15 minutes, turned my exam over & picked up my book & started reading. The instructor came over, asked what I was doing & I told him I was finished with my test. He picked up my answer sheet, looked at it & sent me to the office, where the assistant principal told me that "if you want to ruin your future by putting all B's on your test sheet, that's your decision." I finished the rest of the day's testing by selecting B's, then reading, all the while the teacher glowered at me.

Our schools no longer teach problem solving or critical thinking. We teach our kids how to be mindless automatons -- that way they can be easily manipulated to behave & perform the way the powers that be want them to. Confromity is good & do not pay attention to the man behind the curtain.

BTW, I am finally next on the list at the library to get this book.

[Jim__]

7. I read the book a while ago

I have mixed feelings about this book.

I thoroughly enjoyed the part about the drug dealers. Mostly, I'm amazed that someone would take the type of chance that the researcher took in getting involved with this drug gang. The information about drug dealing that he found by doing this research differed from most of the things I've always heard about drug dealing.

The part of the book that I had the most difficulty with was the methodology. Levitt said he applied an economic methodolgy to non-economic problems. It seemed to me that he was applying statistical analysis in rather standard ways. I agreed with his statistical analysis. Where I had a difficult time was in his assigning motivation as the cause for the outcome. This is the part that I would consider economic analysis and this is the part of economics that I always have trouble with. I never see the analysis that justifies this assigning of motives.

But, overall, I enjoyed the book.

[pstans]

8. I couldn't finish this book

I got to the chapter about "Perfect Parents." I could notread more about how environment doesn't effect how a child will turn out. I stopped reading when he was discussing the Chicago Public Schools School Choice Lottery system. As a teacher, I can't believe that students won't do better at a better school. In my classroom, I have to believe that my actions will help the student become a better citizen when they become adults. According to the author this is not the case. The author makes it seem that once a baby is born, they are already going to be a criminal, high school dropout, college grad, etc. There are considerable factors that effect this outcome during the child's life, and we should do everything that we can mitigate these negative outcomes and support the children that need the extra support.

[Boojatta]

9. The chapter "What Makes a Perfect Parent" mentions former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich

Perhaps a revised version of the book will mention Rod Blagojevich in the chapter on cheating ("What Do Schoolteachers and Sumo Wrestlers Have in Common?").

[cleanhippie]

10. Great Book!

My FIL recommended it to me. I am glad he did.