I received 2 conservative books for Christmas from my mother.

[CrispyQ]

Remember, I recently asked what liberal books you would give to a conservative? I gave her "Worse Than Watergate" & "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" in hopes that she would be more open minded to Dean's exposure of the current secretive administration cuz he's a Republican & also that she would see that they don't "hate us for our freedoms," they hate us for our fucking exploitive policies!

Well, she gave me two books:

"They Just Don't Get It" by Colonel David Hunt
"Weapons of Mass Distortion: The Coming Meltdown of the Liberal Media" by L. Brent Bozell III


Ok, so regarding the first title, it will about kill me to read something that has Bill O'Reilly's endorsement on the front cover. I will try, but it will be very difficult. From reading the cover flaps & reviews, it sounds like this bunch is happy to shred the Constitution & replace it with a military state in the name of "safety." LOL Like these bozo's can keep us safe.

Regarding the second book, how can one even write a book about something that doesn't exist -- the liberal media.

These books are not high on my priority list, especially when the January & February book club titles arrive in a few days, but I will slowly peruse them & share my comments with all of you as I go along.


BTW, has anyone here read these books?

[NJ Democrats]

1. I haven't but was

thinking about getting "Worse than Watergate"
Anyway I'm sorry for you. Those books sound like crap.

[tx_dem41]

2. No....but might I suggest reading them or your statement about

her being more "open-minded" would appear to be hypocritical (I'm not implying that you aren't going to read them).

We shouldn't be afraid of ideas that we don't have ourselves.

[Yupster]

8. I'd suggest calling a truce

Having a political fight with your mothewr at Christmas sure seems like a downer to me.

Maybe something besides politics next year.

[noamnety]

3. If I read them

I'd have to keep a file open on the computer as a fact checker as I went through. And then I'd have to mail her a copy at the end of it.

Pg. 17, 3rd paragraph - author claims blah blah blah. Factcheck: blah blah blah



and then I'd publish it all on a website so others had it as a resource.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. That would be a real service

and make it almost bearable to read them.

[liberalnurse]

4. I am so grateful I have a linage of 100%,

multi-generational family Democrats. It's bad enough just having to work with a few fundies.

[hellbound-liberal]

5. You can use this as an opportunity to expose any flaws

that you find in these books as you read them. I haven't read either one of them but, if O'Reilly likes them there has to be some flawed reasoning in there somewhere. BTW, did your mother read the books that you gave her and have you had an oportunity to discuss her reaction to them? I would be interested to hear what she has to say about "Confessions.." even though raping the planet and forcing Third World countries into insurmountable debt seems to be acceptable to many people these days.

[MissMarple]

6. Send her "Running on Empty" by Pete Peterson.

"Running on Empty, How the Democratic and Republican Parties are Ruining America". He was an economist in the Reagan administration and as I mentioned on another thread he doesn't get all smarmy about Democrats, yet is pleasingly snarky about Republicans.

Also, if she is the least religious: Prophets Versus Empire by Richard Lang. It is an article by a Methodist minister and outlines the biblical basis for liberal politics.

It is available here: http://www.yesmagazine.org/article.asp?ID=1325

And her books...look at them read a few parts, maybe the first and last chapters...if there are chapters just so you know what they are about and know how to refute some major premises with facts or alternative opinion.

[bkcc]

7. My suggestion

Get a book on origami, then practice, using the pages from the books she gave you.

If you make something nice like a swan or a dragon, give it to her as a gift next year.

[CrispyQ]

22. lol

Great idea! I love origami.

:rofl:

[demnan]

9. You have different opinions

but it sounds like you and your mother are a lot alike. I would suggest cooling off the political books with family in the future. There are many activist projects you can involve yourself in without causing undo turmoil with family members who don't see life as we do, just to have peace with your Mom.

[cornermouse]

10. Do you have a fireplace or a woodburning stove?

Of course, there's always File 13.

[roguevalley]

12. Don't read them. It will gain you nothing. You gave truth to your mom

and she gave you lies. She can gain but you can only lose. Please, don't read them. For the children. :)

Send her clippings instead. Clip them from newspapers and copy from the internet stories from newspapers. Send a parcel every week. Its like water on a rock.

[CrispyQ]

23. Hmmm, I might try this:

Send her clippings instead. Clip them from newspapers and copy from the internet stories from newspapers. Send a parcel every week. Its like water on a rock.

I've thought about doing this before, but never have. Somedays I wonder if it's worth my effort, but I hate to just write her off to the dark side. x(

[housewolf]

13. I'd be heading over to my nearest Barnes & Noble or Borders tomorrow

and exchanging them for something I wanted to read.

Unless of course she endorsed them to you, in which case you're sort of stuck.
Unless of course you wanted to list them on ebay and recoup a couple of bucks for them.

Good luck, you are braver than I am to even consider reading them..


Happy New Year to you,

[zbdent]

14. She must have picked up those two books next to Anndy Coulter's

psycho-babble - in the "Bad Fiction" dept. . . .

[sallyseven]

15. Tell your mother that

her book selections are child abuse.

[MissMarple]

16. Hooboy! I found this at amazon.com.

The Colonel sounds certifiable.

"From Publishers Weekly
"Hang onto your ball caps and hairpieces, this is going to be monkey-butt ugly." Indeed. Delivering an account of the U.S.'s failures in combatting terror, Hunt, a Fox TV News military analyst and retired army colonel, depicts a world of gutless politicians, bungling bureaucrats, deceitful allies and bleeding-heart liberals. His solution is to expand the armed forces and vastly contract bureaucracy, especially the many intelligence agencies, which he proposes be combined into one central bureau with a single, long-term director who is exempt from testifying before congressional committees. Hunt hates congressional committees and admires elite military teams like the SEALs and Delta Force; he wants them turned loose. Merged into the "TKA" (Terrorist Killing Agency), they would receive intelligence from the now competent intelligence bureau, proceed to wherever terrorists operate and (with or without the host country's permission) kill them. The author considers Israel an ideal model; its forces, he says, respond viciously to every attack. Legal niceties and public relations take a back seat. Assassination teams travel the world to murder Israel's enemies. (Thoughtful readers may wonder why, after decades of slugging it out, Israel remains wracked with terrorism.) No group escapes the author's venom—or his praise. (On sale Apr. 12)"

And, of course, O'Reilly loves it. :eyes:

[Jim__]

19. Amazing as it seems, given the review that you cite ...

the average rating for this book is 4.5 stars. Who are these people?

[twenty4blackbirds]

17. Give a copy of the Bill of Rights & US Constitution

"They Just Don't Get It" by Colonel David Hunt
From reading the cover flaps & reviews, it sounds like this bunch is happy to shred the Constitution & replace it with a military state in the name of "safety."

Give a copy of the Bill of Rights & US Constitution. Good gift to any American Patriot or wannabe. :-)

as always, icbw :shrug:

[Jim__]

18. Does anyone here read or respect conservative opinion?

I just about never read conservative opinion anymore. I don't consider it worth my time.

Back in the 60's, I was very anti-war. Yet, I always read conservative columnists, I read National Review. Some of it was like conservative opinion today - just garbage and I didn't give it a second thought. But a lot of it did make me think.

I have a hunch, conservatives don't read liberal opinion either. There is just about no communication across this political divide. I really don't think this bodes well for our future.

[CrispyQ]

20. Your response hits closest to home & is the most sad.

I have a hunch, conservatives don't read liberal opinion either. There is just about no communication across this political divide. I really don't think this bodes well for our future.

I feel the same way. I don't know why I think she will read or be any more open minded to my point of view than I am to hers.

[OrwellwasRight]

25. I have tried but it is so frustrating.

I read Ben Wattenberg's Fewer last year for an IRL book club, and I found it to be poorly reasoned. Lots of pre-determined conclusions portrayed as fact, or statistics stretched to support a particular conclusion that were not necessarily that clear cut. Mixed in with this were facts and statistics that would merit an interesting discussion, but the overall effect was disappointing.

I am currently trying to read Gertrude Himmelfarb's The Demoralization of Society, from Victorian Virtues to Modern Values. I have similar criticisms. While it brings up points worthy of discussion (I, like many other humanists, am a "moralist," who does believe there is right and wrong behavior), it is slanted, makes conclusions on the basis of anecdotal evidence, and is general) ineffective as a persuasive piece (that it--unless you agree a priori with it conclusions).

I find reading tomes from the right a waste of time even though I would like to be open minded and learn from the other side.

And yet the right laments its absence in academia. Hello, Horowitz and the right wing: try learning how to reason from evidence instead of the other way around. then we can have a serious discussion.

[OneBlueSky]

21. skip the Bozell . . . you sanity's not worth the risk . . . n/t

.

[tanyev]

24. Hard cover or paperback?

If they are hard covers, just rip them off and toss in the nearest recycle bin.

[CBHagman]

26. I guess the only suggestion I would have...

...is to use them for research. Use them to find out what the talking points are among those in the right wing.

You can also go to fact-based sources (history books, reputable websites, newspapers, magazines, etc.) to do research on the topics they bring up. I think the strongest stance to have is knowing the facts behind the issues.

For example, I frequently hear Republican members of Congress and George W. Bush utter some variation on the phrase "We're fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here." Logically, that doesn't make sense, because obviously there is no reason attacks can't occur on various continents (as they indeed have). I found out from The Washington Post that that talking point came from the pollster Frank Luntz and was something he'd encouraged the GOP to use.

Another example: I hear Republicans cite the elections in El Salvador in the mid-80s as a turning point and very much like the elections in Iraq. Ronald Reagan lauded those elections, and recently Dick Cheney and Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA) did as well. Cheney in particular used the term "terrorists" concerning El Salvador.

However, what Hunter and Cheney didn't mention was that El Salvador was embroiled in civil war, the U.S.-backed government was guilty of all sorts of crimes, there were not only leftist guerrillas but right-wing death squads, and a peace treaty -- not some Cheney-esque elimination of "terrorists" -- was signed in 1992, long after that supposedly valuable election.

Now I am the first to say that Republicans and conservatives can be as historically literate as anyone, but in the case cited above, they certainly are not.

Perhaps focusing on facts will make it easier for you. Good luck!

[CrispyQ]

27. Not a bad idea!

Only problem is, with so many good progressive books to read, it's hard to sacrifice my precious reading time for this. ;)

[TNC4DNC]

28. What you ought to do is read them....

but have a notebook & pen with you at all times while you are going through it, and break down every flawed arguements (of which I am sure there are many), and then come back to her and bombard her with all the lies, half-truths, and blatant fiction you have discovered. Once you give her a good dose of that, and can back it up with things said in the more truthful "liberal" books I bet she won't give you a present like that again. By the way, I am curious as some other people were, did she read the books that you gave her? If she says yes, you should ask to have a discussion about them.

[Dulcinea]

29. Sell them on eBay. Unload them at a used bookstore.

Get some money out of them, & use the proceeds to buy something you'll enjoy reading!