Can a Christian please list what are Christian values?

[Humanist_Activist]

I'm curious as to what believers think.

[Petrushka]

1. Google is your friend --->

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&xhr=t&q=list+of+christian+values&cp=18&pq=list%20of%20christian%20core%20values&pf=p&sclient=psy&biw=1007&bih=625&source=hp&aq=0&aqi=g1g-b3&aql=&oq=list+of+christian+values&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=5c88e14de2b269a1&bs=1

[Sarah Ibarruri]

2. After watching the Christians join the Repukes for the past 31 years, I'd say....

Christian values are those of corporations and the greedy mega-rich, and the rest is just bs.

[emilyg]

5. Really? I'm a Christian - disagree.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

6. Maybe you're one of the handful I can count on one hand, that are not part of the fascists nt

[emilyg]

20. I was going to reply and

changed my mind. Keep thinking the way you want to.

[demosincebirth]

21. Really?

[Ruby the Liberal]

12. I'm with you.

[madrchsod]

13. thanks for the broad brush..

i expected better from you.

[RKP5637]

3. ...

:popcorn:

[grasswire]

4. well, my sister is a staunch Bible believing Christian...

...and last week she told me to sell a kidney when I told her that I was trying to help a family member with his custody fight legal bills. She's a teabagger.

[Drale]

7. I'm sorry but

I would have slapped her really hard and if that didn't work, I'd stop talking to her but thats just me.

[grasswire]

10. I hung up on her.

First time ever.

Not the first time she has said something really bigoted or meanspirited, though.

[Ruby the Liberal]

8. Okay

1. (Golden Rule) “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself.”

2. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’


This is why I am a liberal.

Cheers. :toast:





(Edit to fix formatting from copy/paste)
(Edit 2 to add bolding for the tl;dr crown)

[Humanist_Activist]

19. So you have to love your God more than you love your neighbor?

What type of twisted shit is that, so if God says kill your neighbor, that takes precedence over loving your neighbor? Why not dispense with the first part, sounds like a loophole to allow atrocity.

[Ruby the Liberal]

22. Those voices you apparently hear in your head are not from God, my friend.

I am a Christian, not insane.

Welcome to DU BTW. :hi:

[Humanist_Activist]

25. OK, how about a simple question, who do you value more, God or your fellow humans? n/t

[Ruby the Liberal]

26. Without God, I would not have the calmness nor strength to tolerate many of our kind

who tend to the greed side of the spectrum.

[Humanist_Activist]

28. OK, so I'll put that down as avoiding the question. n/t

[Ruby the Liberal]

35. Put it down as whatever you like.

You asked, I answered. I can't help if you can't understand the response.

Tis your filtering and filing system. Do with it what you will.

:hi:

[Humanist_Activist]

37. What filtering system? You didn't answer the question.

I don't even know why you would need God to tolerate your fellow human beings, that sounds quite odd and disturbing.

[Ruby the Liberal]

42. Why so angry - just because I have a belief you don't?

You wonder why people aren't talking to you about this? Shift into attack-mode-neutral and re-ask the question. (that is, if you really want to know the answers to your questions as opposed to looking for targets).

This country (and this forum) support the freedom of *and from) religion as well as the separation of church and state, so cool yer jets.

Again, welcome to DU.

[Humanist_Activist]

47. What attack mode? The fact that I don't give automatic deference to your beliefs...

doesn't mean I'm angry or hostile. I just see you avoiding a rather simple question by adding unnecessary and disturbing qualifications on top of it.

[Ruby the Liberal]

49. LOL! There is deference and there is respect. Given you asked the question.

Heres a thought. Take the night off, sleep it off, and read this from the top in the morning.

Oh, and BTW "*and from)" was a typo. Should have read "(and from)"

[Humanist_Activist]

52. Respect has to be earned, and I don't automatically respect beliefs, I evaluate them depending...

on their accuracy and merits, and see if there's a valid counterargument.

[cleanhippie]

88. Oh, lookie! The first dodge and attempt to make the non-believer seem like an angry person.

How many times has THAT tactic been used before by apologists.

:puke:

[deacon_sephiroth]

99. re-ask?

Why not just answer in the first place? I don't see why people should have to do the hokey pokey and turn themselves around to get a straight answer to a question. After all, you breeched the topic.

[Silent3]

100. Definitely ducking the question

Here, I'll make it simple not to duck:

Who do you value more?
A) God
B) You fellow humans.

Please answer A or B.

If you feel you must elaborate beyond, please, nevertheless, answer A or B first, before going on. This isn't a trick question unless you're afraid of what a simple answer to it sounds like.

[Thats my opinion]

30. According to Jesus. there is no difference. n/t

[Humanist_Activist]

32. Of course there is, Jesus said anyone who values their family above him is not worthy of him...

look at post 31.

[Thats my opinion]

29. These comprise the heart of Christian vaues.r/t

[Humanist_Activist]

40. Reread your post, so you are liberal because you fear hell?

That seems messed up.

[Ruby the Liberal]

45. I fear nothing.

I won't toss Occam's Razor at you, but it is an appropriate answer.

So, why so angry at those whose values (apparently) mimic yours yet belief systems do not?

Having some cognitive dissonance reconciling the two?

[Humanist_Activist]

54. No anger, and I surely hope those values don't match mine...

I value my fellow human beings because they are human beings, I help them because we are all cousins, sharing this Earth, not to appease a supernatural being. Its a natural impulse, part of our legacy as beings evolved as social creatures that we should nurture to extend our tribalism to encompass the entire globe. The extraneous and unnecessary trappings you would attempt to add would be divisive, counterproductive, and damaging.

[Ruby the Liberal]

56. New to being around liberals/progressives, aye?

LOL

[Humanist_Activist]

58. Motivations differ, that much is clear. n/t

[JDPriestly]

64. Great post!

[Ruby the Liberal]

69. ...

:hug: good to see you in here. Never venture in this forum myself, but was bored tonight.

Have a great weekend, aye?

:toast:

[uppityperson]

9. They change by person. I would tell you mine, someone else theirs. Both would

be accurate but could be very different. Can an Atheist please list what are Atheist values? Can an Agnostic list what are Agnostic values?

Silly, right?

[Humanist_Activist]

60. Neither Atheists nor Agnostics claim to have have "values"

Christians however, claim to have values, I'm curious as to what these are, if what you say is true, then the term "Christian values" is completely meaningless, and its purely up to the individual.

[uppityperson]

72. Agnostics and Atheists have no values? I think you are trying to put something

on a large group of varied people rather than seeing them as individuals. Everyone has "values".

[Humanist_Activist]

76. Sorry, should clarify, there are no "Atheist values"...

we find them in other philosophies such as Humanism, but Atheism doesn't inform you of anything else about what that person believes.

[uppityperson]

79. What you might consider a "Christian value" is not necessarily what I might.

Yes, that is subjective, rather like "Atheist values". Since you didn't answer this post elsewhere, I will try again.

For you, Christians must believe Jesus was the Messiah, cross, risen, etc. For others, they believe in following what teachings were attributed to Jesus, "be as I am, do as I do" sort of thing rather than worshipping the man.

Funny how those are 2 very different ideas, isn't it. Some people have a combination of those 2. All can, and do, call themselves Christian, but some might disagree with the designation.

[Humanist_Activist]

81. Again, there are no "Atheist values", Humanist values sure, but please at least get the labels...

right. As far as them being subjective, of course, and the thing is regardless of HOW a Christian worships god or lives their life, it is supported by something in the Bible. Itself such a muddled mess of both good and bad that it can be all things to all people, rendering it meaningless.

[uppityperson]

83. You miss the point. Values based on spirituality are subjective.

[Humanist_Activist]

85. The question is what type of values are based on spirituality...

I'm assuming you are talking about moral and ethical values, because it seems to me, from the fact that I know many religious people, that their ethics and morals are more informed from the real world rather than from any Bible, or spiritual awakening. Treat others the way you want to be treated, in other words, don't be an asshole. Its actually pretty simple, and I believe most people don't need a book to tell them about it.

This is also why I notice that no one I know who is Christian, worships a god they disagree with on any moral or ethical issue. Every Christian I know worships a god that shares all of their values, the question is, did those values come from that god, and that's why the Christian shares them, or did they come from the Christian, who is projecting their values on their god?

Its not necessarily the values that are subjective, but the spirituality.

[pnwmom]

11. Love is the basis of all true Christian values. n/t

[Humanist_Activist]

15. Really? Then list these values. n/t

[pnwmom]

16. Ruby the Liberal did an excellent job.

I'd also add the parable of the Good Samaritan, where Jesus explained that even someone from an enemy tribe should be treated with love.

[Ruby the Liberal]

18. Ha! Great minds. Timing. All that.

:hi:

[Ruby the Liberal]

17. I did. Explicitly. Post #8. Above you ^

No comment, or are you just here looking for low hanging fruit to bash?

[Swede]

14. Can an American tell you what are American values?

nt

[demosincebirth]

23. Simple enough, read the New Testament.

[Humanist_Activist]

33. Do you really want me to start listing examples from the New Testament?

Already did that below, apparently you better put Jesus before you own family, or you are not worthy of him, and that's one of the least offensive quotes from the NT.

[demosincebirth]

38. If you don't beleive in something, why do you know

so much about it? Sounds like you've got some "nut" to crack with any one who is a Christian. What did one ever do to you?

[Humanist_Activist]

50. Because I was studying to go into seminary after confirmation, that's why...

then I read the Bible, studied other religions, realized what was real and what wasn't, and decided not to join the priesthood.

In fact, my childhood life in the Church was quite pleasant, Father Mike was cool, etc. I just wanted to know what Christians think about questions I came up with, indeed, I'm challenging them because I want them to think about what they are talking about, particularly when it comes to the Bible.

In fact, that is part of the motivation, but not the only one, I read the Bible as a good Catholic, when I finished, I was damn near an atheist(actually a seeker). I actually searched for any religion that didn't base itself on the Bible, I thought God and Jesus were some of the sickest, twisted characters I ever read about, and I read Stephen King for crying out loud! I'm just curious as to why any decent person would even consider that book worthy of their attention.

[Ruby the Liberal]

55. Yet this leads you to question Christian values on a liberal message board?

Why not go bother the RW segment of the faith?

We are very secure in our beliefs here (and the rights of others in theirs).

[Humanist_Activist]

59. Why is asking the question such an affront?

in addition, why is challenging those values equally offensive?

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[demosincebirth]

71. I feel sorry for you. Don't bother to answer.

[uppityperson]

73. If this is true, then you should know that there is no "Christian values" but a whole lot of differi

different values. Like I wrote before. What you might consider a "Christian value" is not necessarily what I might.

" I'm just curious as to why any decent person would even consider that book worthy of their attention." Because there are lessons to be learned in there. Sounds like you were taking one of the "ours is The Literal" interpretation of the Bible. There are many ways to view it, from stories with morals to "OMG THIS IS TRUE".

I think many people are not such dichotomous thinkers, all evil and twisted or wonderful and teh truth (tm).

[Humanist_Activist]

75. I was never taught to take the Bible literally true, I was Catholic...

however, what lessons, moral or otherwise, would you get out of the story of Lot? A "righteous" man, according to Yahweh, who would give his daughters to a crowd to be raped. Yahweh, a character that killed every single man, woman, child, in Sodom for being discourteous and sinful. Not all of them were guilty after all.

Like I said, I don't care if something is true or not. But if you are going to claim that some story has morals in it, you better back up that claim. It just seems to me that the Bible, as literature, is perfect for sadistic psychopaths with a foreskin fetish.

[uppityperson]

77. There are lessons which are positive also. I am sorry you chose to focus only the the bad ones

[Humanist_Activist]

78. But that's the point, the Bible shows Yahweh as both good and evil...

or at least evil in our more enlightened eyes. The point is, even if, on balance, there's slightly more good morals than bad, doesn't that put the Bible on morally neutral ground. It certainly isn't an ideal. Its a product of its times, no more no less, and the people who wrote it were primitive, ignorant, and savage.

[uppityperson]

80. And you throw the whole thing out because you have focused on the bad ones.

I think many people are not such dichotomous thinkers, all evil and twisted or wonderful and teh truth (tm). You can take the lessons as cautionary tales or as inspiring ones. I am sorry that you chose to focus on the cautionary ones and decry the whole thing.

You are trying to change goalposts here. We were discussing "Christian values" and now you denigrate people who lived when the Bible was written as "primitive, ignorant, and savage."

Or, it could circle back to my comment that }you should know that there is no "Christian values" but a whole lot of different values. Like I wrote before. What you might consider a "Christian value" is not necessarily what I might.

[Humanist_Activist]

82. No, I wouldn't throw it out, it should be treated no differently than Homer's stories...

as historical literature, the reason I have a problem with it is because people use it as more than that. That's just insane.

Oh, and I never said what I thought "Christian values" are, mostly because I don't think there are any, or at least not any that can be defined, look at this thread, and you have posters saying love is a Christian value, which is stupid, its an emotion that all humans have, and the same goes for everything else many posters claim. Its Christians trying to steal the values inherent in all people as their exclusive invention. I won't say they are the first, last, or only religion to do this, but on this board its especially bad.

[uppityperson]

84. You don't think there are "Christian values" yet this thread asks Christians to list them.

To me this seems like something a troll or disruptor would do. Ask loaded questions that they know there is no answer to and then argue when posters respond.

Values based on any spirituality or lack thereof are subjective and your attempt to place the values of some on the entire group seems along the line of bigotry.

[Humanist_Activist]

86. No, I started this thread, because some Christians on this board apparently...

think there is an Objective standard to judge what are or are not Christian Values. Its not a loaded question when I know there's no answer, but others are so sure there is one.

[uppityperson]

87. "love" is a Christian value, depending on the definition of "love" and just because

it is a Christian value does not mean it is not an Agnostic value, or a Muslim value, or a Buddhist value, or a Pastafarian value.

"Its Christians trying to steal the values inherent in all people as their exclusive invention." Wrong. It is a value that is inherent in most types of sprituality and in no way steals it from anyone. Good grief.

Yes, love is a Christian value, but because you love does not make you a Christian. Poor logic there. Cats have fur, but just because an animal has fur does not make it a cat. And the cat, by having fur, does not "steal" this characteristic which all mammals have.

[Humanist_Activist]

91. Love is an emotion every human and even many animals share...

why attach a label to it that only serves to divide? Love is love, there are different types, familial love, the love of friends, the love between lovers. Bonds so strong that people will risk death to protect each other because of it, and that's precisely why it should NOT be claimed as a value of any religion, but rather as a universal human emotion, which is precisely what it is.

[uppityperson]

92. Many people base their spiritual beliefs on love. It is a universal human emotion.

There is no "label..that only serves to divide". Except for you, who cannot let others have love be a value for themselves, for their spirituality because for you, for some reason, that threatens you.

Shame.

done with you.

[Humanist_Activist]

93. Are you seriously claiming that religion doesn't divide? n/t

[uppityperson]

94. Whoosh!

Did you feel those goalposts move?

[Humanist_Activist]

97. How can there be goalposts when its so subjective that people can make shit up as they go along? n/t

[darkstar3]

95. Love is an emotion, not a value.

[struggle4progress]

24. Since the time of Abraham, the image of G-d has appeared in human form.

So this is the standard according to which we will be judged: The King will say ‘Come, you blessed ... I was hungry and you fed me, I was thirsty and you watered me, I was a stranger and you invited me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you cared for me, I was imprisoned and you visited me.’ And the righteous will answer, ‘When did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you, or naked and clothe you?When did we see you sick or imprisoned and visit you?’ And the King will reply, ‘Whatever you did for the very least of my brothers and sisters, you did for me’ (Matthew 25)

And thus If you say "I love God" but hate your brother, you are a liar. For how can you love G-d whom you have not seen -- and not love your brother whom you have seen? (1 John)

[Ruby the Liberal]

27. +1

[Humanist_Activist]

31. Look, I can quote the Bible too!

Matthew Chapter 10:32-37 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

[Thats my opinion]

34. A magnificent quotation.

Instead of quoting it out of context as the fundamentalists do--you might just take the time and look at what it means in context. It is the only rational way to understand either the Bible of any other literature.

[Humanist_Activist]

36. If it were treated as any other literature, I would agree, but too many people...

actually believe the Bible is more than that. Let me ask you, in what context would it be acceptable to love Jesus more than your own family? Only when they are unbelievers, or is it all the time? Seriously, I see this argument all the time, and it never makes sense, even if you put it in "context" its still horrific.

[provis99]

44. "context"; the ultimate believer's excuse.

Using context, a single word in the Bible can mean anything a believer wants it to believe.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

70. Tell us, o Well Connected One, in which way the context changes the meaning of that verse.

We're waiting.

[struggle4progress]

39. I suppose you must read according to your understanding, as I must read according to mine --

the demands of agape transcend mere familiality

What reward should you have for loving those who love you? Doesn't everyone do that? And if you only greet your brothers, what more is that than others do? (Matthew 5)

Then they told him: Your mother and brothers are here, hoping to see you. And he replied: My mother and brothers are those who hear the Word and live it (Luke 8)

[Humanist_Activist]

41. So basically unbelievers aren't family, got it.

Faith before blood. :puke:

[struggle4progress]

46. Again, you must read according to your understanding, and I according to mine.

[Humanist_Activist]

48. What does that even mean? n/t

[Ruby the Liberal]

53. It means you're over your head, kimosabe.

You are asking followup questions that you can't comprehend the answers to.

[Humanist_Activist]

57. Actually no, it seems that the poster is saying they believe the way they believe...

damn the facts. That's what I'm puzzled by, there's no basis for common ground when its so subjective for the other person. I approach the Bible like I do the Odyssey, as interesting literature, preferably studied in its original languages if possible, and shown as an example of the evolution of beliefs, cultural practices, history, etc, of the people who lived near the Mediterranean at that time.

I'm puzzled as to why anyone would want to view the Bible as anything beyond that.

[Ruby the Liberal]

61. I can see that you are.

I hope you find what it is that you seek.

:hi:

[Humanist_Activist]

62. Actually I already did, its really fascinating how...

certainty and answers are required for many religious people, they need surety. It seems this thread is an example of that, actually all it does is confirm my observations that the term "Christian Values" is largely meaningless, subjective, and very removed from the Bible. And many of the ones recited aren't even uniquely Christian.

You have actually been the greatest help, I would say I meant no offense in my questions, frankly just asking them is offensive, so I won't bother. This thread is mostly a response to the Christian terrorist in Norway and claims of him not being a "true Christian". I wanted to see if even liberal Christians can come up with a consistent set of values that they all share and follow, apparently its not possible.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Humanist_Activist]

66. Sorry, perhaps I should have said terrorist who happened to be Christian...

could have worded it better. I was fascinated by the claims that he isn't a "true Christian" whatever that means.

[cleanhippie]

90. If Osama Bin Laden was a Muslim Terrorist, then the Norway killer is a Christian Terrorist.

No two ways about it.

[struggle4progress]

67. You began the thread asking what the values were, not why I might choose to adopt those values.

You will, I expect, be entirely unhappy with my answer to your second question: I regard my religious belief as an existential choice; it is not a matter of becoming logically convinced that this story, so implausible in its face, must be true as history; it is a matter of deciding to adopt the underlying religious view that the proper form of worship centers around human relationships

Of course, for any subject, one must begin by choosing one's foundational stance and the varieties of thought one will recognize. Such choices can always be dismissed as subjective -- but that particular criticism is not always useful. You are free to choose your values, and to give such account of them as you can; but life is short, there is a limited time to do whatever it is one intends to do -- and any time spent, on the potentially-infinite regress of justifying one's values, is that much time lost to the actual attempt to live those values

I'm not a Biblical literalist; I do not feel obliged to consider these old texts "inerrant" nor obliged to read as a fundamentalist; I can regard the texts as a record of a peculiar human search, possibly showing indications of ordinary human literary modifications to justify old power struggles -- but I still find here ancient wells, from which living water flows

[Humanist_Activist]

68. I don't see why I should be either happy or unhappy...

I'm curious I guess you could say, I evaluate all my beliefs, as much as possible, for accuracy, and as a check against subjectivity. Only a few, emotional viewpoints, aren't really privy to this, but if you want to talk about my lack of belief in gods, or my beliefs about the larger picture, none of those came about by choice, but through critical thinking and examining the evidence.

My foundational stance would be empiricism if anything.

[uppityperson]

74. Thank you for continuing to post. It clarifies how you are unable to understand

that spiritual beliefs are subjective. It is clarifying that you don't want a discussion but are looking for a fight. Goodbye

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Old Codger]

43. Well

I am not a "christian"actually am atheist, but I would think that the 10 commandments would fill the bill pretty much.

[Ruby the Liberal]

51. Humanist_Activist re# post 47 See above ^

This is how you communicate with people when you want to have a conversation as opposed to trolling for a fight.



:thumbsup:

[tiny elvis]

96. christianity has a value system

the book treats many values, great and small and contradictory, as absolute
in practice, it is necessarily a realized system with only a few idealized values
absolute values in service to the christ, like believing jesus personifies god, are exclusive to christianity
heathens disregard those values because they are not externally apprehensible
making yourself a vessel to that particular lord is a particularly christian value
heathens see no value in being a vessel to a mistake
where heathens deem which values are true values, there will be no valuable christian values,
so that curiosity about the subject becomes only an inquisitor

[Humanist_Activist]

98. Finally, a real answer. Took long enough. n/t

[Taverner]

101. Oh you know, nebulous things that are everything to everybody...

But are *not* the kinds of things bad people do, but only the kinds of things that good people do

[darkstar3]

102. You win one thread.

:thumbsup: