30,000 heed Perry's call for prayer

[struggle4progress]

Governor leaves politics out of his ‘Response’
By Joe Holley/[e-mail]
Updated 01:23 a.m., Sunday, August 7, 2011
... Nearly 7,000 seats on the floor were occupied, and hundreds more people stood in a mosh pit of sorts in front of the stage ... http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/religion/article/30-000-heed-Perry-s-call-for-prayer-1751836.php

Texas Gov. Rick Perry opens religious revival in Houston
Share
By DAVE MONTGOMERY
McClatchy Newspapers
Published: Saturday, Aug. 6, 2011 - 1:00 am
... Eric Bearse, spokesman for the event, estimated attendance at nearly 30,000 ... http://www.sacbee.com/2011/08/06/3821325/texas-gov-rick-perry-opens-religious.html

Prayer event draws crowd, controversy & Governor Brownback
By Chris Durden KWCH 12 Eyewitness News
7:21 p.m. CDT, August 6, 2011
(HOUSTON)— Forty-nine were invited, but Kansas' Sam Brownback was the only governor to attend a controversial prayer service in Houston on Saturday ... Organizers estimate 22,000 people, mostly from Texas, filled Reliant Stadium ... http://www.kwch.com/news/kwch-governor-brownback-prayer-event-20110806,0,88667.story

Perry Addresses 20,000 At Prayer Rally
August 6, 2011 by UPI - United Press International, Inc.
HOUSTON, Aug. 6 (UPI) — Texas Gov. Rick Perry addressed a crowd of 20,000 people at a Christian rally in Houston simply as Rick Perry of Austin ... http://www.personalliberty.com/news/perry-addresses-20000-at-prayer-rally-20110806-141543-2853/

Rick Perry and the Christian Theocrats
Aug 6, 2011
Jeanine Czaja
Possible 2012 GOP candidate Rick Perry was a hit with the 15,000 gathered for August 6, 2011 prayer meeting held in Houston ... http://www.suite101.com/content/rick-perry-and-the-christian-theocrats-a383426

Perry Prays For US At Houston Rally
Updated: Saturday, 06 Aug 2011, 3:36 PM CDT
Published : Saturday, 06 Aug 2011, 3:36 PM CDT
... Politico said the rally had more than 8,000 registered attendees ... http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpps/news/perry-prays-for-us-at-houston-rally-dpgonc-km-20110806_14463746

Maybe an accurate summary headline would be:

8000 pre-register for Perry event; Brownback attends

[struggle4progress]

1. ... It was a fast, but there was food for sale ...

For Rick Perry, crisis 'Response' is an opportunity
Ken Herman, Austin American-Statesman
Updated: 9:51 p.m. Saturday, Aug. 6, 2011
http://www.statesman.com/opinion/herman-for-rick-perry-crisis-response-is-an-1703565.html

Fasting at Prayer Event Ends at Hot Dog Stand for Many
by Thanh Tan
10 hours ago
... the event billed as a day for praying and fasting made some concessions for those who were too hungry to get through the seven-hour revival. Event spokesman Eric Bearse said the stadium required that concession stands remain open, so speakers told the audience early on they were welcome to eat between worshiping. Many took the advice to heart: Long lines of people waited for the chance to buy nachos, hot dogs, smoothies and beverages in the stadium's mezzanine ... http://www.texastribune.org/texas-people/rick-perry/thousands-pray-some-break-fast/

Prayer rally notebook
Updated 01:21 a.m., Sunday, August 7, 2011
“The Response” was billed as a day of prayer and fasting ... From early morning until late afternoon, long lines of people waited to buy soft drinks, peanuts, hot dogs, nachos and smoothies ... Spokesman Mark Miner said .. Perry planned to have dinner in Houston afterward with friends and event organizers ... http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/politics/article/Prayer-rally-notebook-1751839.php

[marginlized]

2. ... and the Houston Chronicle

Gov. Rick Perry, evangelical leaders hold prayer rally at Reliant: LIVEBLOG
http://blog.chron.com/believeitornot/2011/08/gov-rick-perry-evangelical-leaders-hold-prayer-rally-at-reliant-liveblog/

[Turbineguy]

3. There was a National Lampoon

where they fasted.

For two hours.

[PoliticAverse]

4. "When you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly...

on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them. I tell you the truth, that is all the reward they will ever get."

http://bible.cc/matthew/6-5.htm

[humblebum]

8. We are also not to forsake gathering together in prayer.

Hebrews 10:25

[LeftishBrit]

9. But generally not under the leadership of a disgusting right-wing politician like Perry

[humblebum]

10. But, inspite of what atheists think. nt

[LAGC]

11. Just another example of the schizophrenic "holy text" you Christians have.

You can point to different parts to justify just about anything, if you only ignore the other parts that disagree.

[humblebum]

12. it appears to be atheists pointing out the biblical text in this case.

So, I would have to truly question who is schizophrenic. Christians do what christians do, but it is the radical atheists who are constantly interjecting themselves into christian concerns. That epitomizes schizophrenia and paranoia.

[LAGC]

13. You know, I bet if Christians just kept to themselves and quit trying to evangelize...

You wouldn't see very many atheists trying to interject themselves into their affairs at all.

What goes around comes around.

[humblebum]

14. History proves that the only thing more repressive and violent than theocracy

is atheocracy.

[LAGC]

15. Oh please.

Not the false equivalency with communism again.

Europe seems to be doing pretty well with large atheist populations, would you consider all those European democracies repressive?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism#Europe

[humblebum]

16. I wouldn't exactly call them atheocracies. And I wasn't talking about communism.

You have also shown me that that the radical atheist intention is to silence another group or IOW, deprive them of their First Amendment rights. "... if Christians just kept to themselves and quit trying to evangelize... You wouldn't see very many atheists trying to interject themselves into their affairs at all."

Definitely a situation to watch out for.

[LAGC]

17. Yes, what a terrible world it would be if people kept their religious views to themselves.

:sarcasm:

[humblebum]

18. Problem is - It's not your perfect world. It's a pluralist world where

differences and others' opinions must be tolerated.

[LAGC]

19. You should inform your religious conservative friends.

Like Rick Perry.

[humblebum]

34. They too need to learn that lesson. nt

[LAGC]

35. Too?

How many atheists are against religious pluralism?

I think the chief complaint is allowing any ONE particular creed to dominate the others.

[Angry Dragon]

37. You are correct ......... it is not a perfect world

Even god is not perfect
I was just reading the Bible and by the third page god has kicked Adam and Eve out of the Garden because they got some knowledge and by page eight god has decided that he made another mistake by creating man and has decided to kill all of humanity and all creatures except for a few.

How should I look at things when Jesus says love everyone but the church says says some love is immoral and evil?? The church decides which love is good. I am amazed at all the tolerance that I see coming from churches.

[LeftishBrit]

24. To say that government shouldn't promote religion is NOT the same thing as saying that they should

promote or enforce atheism.

They should not be doing either. A governor should not be favouring either religion or atheism for the citizens of the state.

[skepticscott]

40. Another classic switch

it used to be atheism, then it was "atheistic society" (a term you can't even define sensibly) that caused this violence...now its "atheocracy"

I guess you'll just keep flinging shit and hoping something sticks.

[humblebum]

41. Do you ever post anything worth reading? It fairly stands to reason

that the antithesis of "theocracy" would be "atheocracy."

[skepticscott]

48. Duck, dodge, divert...as usual

No answer for the substantive issue..not even an idiotic definition of "atheistic society"...just more shit pulled out of your ass.

And yeah, discrediting your BS probably IS a waste of time.

[LeftishBrit]

42. I think what may be meant is a government *enforcing* atheism. But the point I keep making is that

secularism does *not* mean a government enforcing atheism, or even favouring atheist citizens over others. It means their staying out of religion altogether, and letting individuals make their own choices about religion, without state pressure.

For a government to enforce any religion, or atheism, or ANY form of belief, and treat contrary beliefs as 'thoughtcrime' is wrong and dangerous. That's one example of why dictatorships are bad.

But there aren't *only* the two alternatives: governors leading prayer sessions as part of political campaigns, and acting as missionaries to promote a particular form of religion, vs Soviet-style enforcement of atheism. How about the state just staying out of religion altogether?

[LeftishBrit]

23. Well, I suppose it is paranoid to even think that a right-wing governor who tries to combine church

with government might ever become president; start a war with the view that God is on his side; and for instance try to restrict medical research on religious grounds.

After all, no previous Republican governor of Texas has ever done so!

Oops....

[LeftishBrit]

21. Are atheists saying that no one can go to church?

Or organize a prayer meeting on private premises?

It is the *governor* organizing a prayer meeting, while preparing a campaign for higher office, that is worrying. That is basically inserting religion into party politics.

[TZ]

36. Do you know ANYTHING about any other religion

besides Christianity? If you did, you would know its not just atheists that find events like this ANATHEMA. Its considered incredibly heretical for Jews to pray in secular places ie, not home or temple. But hey, I'm sure you can find some assinine quote from the bible to justify your position. Same as the Catholics and 7th Day Adventists who STILL preach (and I've heard it) that Jews murdered Jesus. Amazing how quotes from the Bible can justify ANYTHING.

[Misc85]

38. Seriously this case is a case of whoring religion

[patrice]

5. Afraid of losing their jobs if they don't. nt

[okasha]

6. What a fizzle.

n/t

[Raschel]

7. Hot August night......It's Brother Love's Travelin' Salvation Show.

[54anickel]

20. I always loved that Live edition! n/t

[darkstar3]

22. I dare anyone here

to show definitively how this event deals solely with the Free Exercise Clause and has nothing to do with the Establishment Clause.

Perry crossed the line here, and everybody knows it, but no one who agrees with his faith (including the judge) is willing to admit it.

[struggle4progress]

25. You conflate several different matters.

Perry, of course, is engaged in crass and tasteless pandering to "social-values" rightwingers, launching a trial balloon for a presidential campaign

But America has a long history of crass and tasteless pandering by politicians, and the courts are extraordinarily unlikely to intervene against that

Such crass and tasteless pandering very often flies in the face of tolerance and goodwill. It often conflicts with the obvious spirit of established laws. But the courts are simply not going to outlaw dog-whistling by legislators or executives

If Perry, in any materially significant fashion, directs state resources or uses state power in a manner encouraging the official establishment of a religion, then I should hope and expect the courts to oppose that, when presented with the challenge. The courts, however, will not prescribe in detail how Perry may or may not use some particular hours of his time, or whether he as politician may or may not attempt to trade on the prestige of his office to advance his own purported ideals, whether or not he is sincere

[darkstar3]

26. What about Perry's security? What about his advance team? What about his transportation?

Can you honestly say that a currently active Governor can engage in any public event without the use of taxpayer dollars and government employees?

If even one dollar of Texas State money was spent on this shindig, which seems to be completely inevitable, then it doesn't just violate the spirit of the Establishment Clause, but the letter as well. A currently active head of a US State has endorsed a single religion (which is itself exclusionary), and not only has he done so publicly, he's done it while utilizing public dollars for his appearance.

[struggle4progress]

29. As an exercise: document your claims and attach dollar values

[darkstar3]

30. Condescension will get you nowhere. I don't post on this forum "as an exercise",

even if you only do so for that reason. When you've decided that the cover of your bridge is no longer sufficient, you can join the rest of us in actual discussion.

[struggle4progress]

32. If you can decisively gobsmack Perry for misuse of state resources, I'll cheer loud as any here.

The ACLU didn't get much from their public records request on this: Perry just handed them a big stack of barely-related paper. I may suspect Perry didn't hand everything over, but if I can't prove that, then it don't mean diddly-squat

You wanna get any traction on this issue, you gotta sway the middle: they ain't gonna be impressed if you just shout at your opponents or get your friends to nod their heads in agreement -- they'll just figure "Opinions is like assholes; everbody's got one." You wanna sway the middle, you gotta give them more than opinion: they gonna want something like proof

That's not "condescension" -- it's basic nuts and bolts stuff

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[backscatter712]

27. Perry spent taxpayer money and used his position as governor to promote The Response.

Of course he broke the law, and The Response was unconstitutional from the start.

[struggle4progress]

28. The claim, that he used significant state resources, would require real evidence

supporting it, in order to progress in court

Using "his position as governor" is too nebulous to make any headway in court

[darkstar3]

31. And when Texas area courts actually allow someone past the bullshit "standing" wall,

the discovery process for a suit can include a subpoena or three, which will allow that documentation to come to light. Until then, feel free to ignore the simple fact that a governor simply CAN'T appear publicly without the use of taxpayer funds...

[humblebum]

39. Guess that means a sitting president cannot attend a church service?

You would have to show that Perry was acting in an official capacity as governor while at the service.

[LAGC]

43. It's really disgusting seeing you "liberal" Christians falling all over yourselves defending..

...the likes of Rick Perry.

And you wonder why people get the impression that you are enablers of the Christian Right.
\

[humblebum]

45. Are we defending the Christian Right or are we defending the

right to practice religion without government interference where it is perfectly legal to do so? There were no laws broken here. I happen to think some of you are bringing down the Democratic party by your actions, too. But that's only my opinion and you have the right to voice yours also.

Incidentally, I can't stand Perry anymore than you can and i think this could well hurt him if he decides to run. But, nonetheless, he is breaking no laws that I can see. I will not let atheists decide how I should view someone's religious practices, nor would I let any RW'er tell me how and what to do and believe.

[LAGC]

49. You need to read this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x295838

And still tell me that everything Perry did was on the up and up.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Goblinmonger]

44. It is repulsive to see liberal Christians defend this fuckhead.

Seriously, how big of a douchebag to you have to be to get the vocal liberal Christians in this forum to actually say that a fellow christian is a prick? Jesus fucking christ on a trailer hitch.

[darkstar3]

47. Warren Jeffs, perhaps?

(Just heard that fuckwit got sent to prison for life. Damn skippy!)

[okasha]

50. But the argument isn't that Perry's a prick, though he is.

The argument is whether or not he used state resources for this combination evangelical/campaign event.

I'm inclined to think he probably did. But at least at the moment, I can't prove he did.