How about a poll about religion and evolution? OR maybe not.. maybe more a discussion!

[David Sky]

Religion and science in general, maybe.

How many people who identify as "religious" here:

Accept the theory of evolution, as taught in Darwin's book, with modern updates, greater precision added, and with the advance of Paleontoloty, Archeology, Geology, biology, DNA, etc?

How many whoa are deeply religious find those theories and advances sadly lacking in substance, or somehow less than "reasonable", due partly to their religious beliefs and teachings?

How many people who post here are skeptical of the science of evolution for one reason or another, and what is the reason?


Come to think of it, it might be better if this were NOT a poll, and if everyone would likes to post here on this religion and theology forum were just to state their own position on these scientific issues, together with how they describe their religious or non-religious beliefs.


I'm an atheist. There's never been in my lifetime any evidence presented for the belief in a god or a single religion, other than to assist some people in more comfortably dealing with the chance events in life that make life not always fun or sensible. Belief in a god or a religion often makes thinking about the random nature of unfairness in life a lot easier to deal with on a psychological level, it's a fairy tale that makes the child in us less frustrated.

I solidly believe in the science of evolution, and the more facts and science I learn, the more convinced I am, not from an emotional level, but from a logical and factual one. Do scientists have all the details right? Of COURSE not, but that is the nature of science, more and more precise approximations of the truth. It was true in the time of Copernicus, it is true in the time of DNA.

So, now, what do other posters here think? Shall we talk about how religious beliefs can or do interfere with our grasp of science, (with evolution being the symbolic token in this debate)

What are my fellow posters' thoughts about this?

[Kennah]

1. At one time, I identified myself as a Southern Baptist

As the war on evolution heated up, or perhaps as I wandered into battleground discussions, I was always very guarded about the anti-evolution arguments and believed the seven literal days was just allegory. As more logs were heaped on the fire--6K to 10K year old Earth, dust on the moon, and dinosaurs on the Ark with Noah--I started looking for some way to push back. Jesus on a velociraptor anyone?

What I found was that there was no room for discussion in a Southern Baptist Church unless it was to vilify all the heathen sinners and cultists out there--you know, the Jews, the Catholics, LDS, SDA, Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims, Buddhists, and anyone else who wasn't a REAL Southern Baptist, a Pentecostal, and maybe one or two stragglers out there.

I kept hearing about "Creation Science", and as I dug into it I found it was all hooey. Never found even one single credible source. Would love to hear of one if anyone has one?

Don't know that I could say my support of evolution was restored as it never really was in serious question. This did lead me to drift completely away from The Church, but I'm not really sure I was ever all that grounded in The Church.

I know that not every Christian clings to an absolutist view of the Bible, and real Social Justice is perhaps the most appealing thing about any religion to this agnostic pantheist.

[David Sky]

2. Wonderful thoughtful and revealing response! Thanks! n/t

[dtexdem]

3. I've always believed in evolution, since grade school.

That's when even Disney did cartoons on it (although they dodged the human-evolution part, it was obviously a dodge that even a fourth grader saw through). I was raised a Catholic and was in Catholic schools K-high school. Evolution was never a problem for the Catholic Church or its schools in my lifetime -- although the nuns in grade school simply ignored it, the Jesuits in my high school embraced it.

I was later atheist for a short time, then settled on agnosticism maybe 30 years ago. Have been a Unitarian Universalist for about 20 years. Have since 1999 been active in defending evolution politically -- because the RW idiots forced that on me and other Americans by trying to impose Creationism on public school science standards. In the defend-evolution movement, I have known atheists, agnostics and theists, alike -- including evangelical Christians. The big split that I have seen is between Christians who embrace evolution and those who cannot abide it.

[David Sky]

4. You have been active with interesting groups of people more recently. I'd be curious...

to know more about those Evangelical Christians who actually embraced evolution. They don't seem to be getting much press or media attention, what with Sarah Palin and Rick Perry and Michele Bachmann running around as our attention-seeking political Presidential candidates.

Thanks for your sharing of your religious upbringing and current status.

Evolution is sort of the elephant in the fundamentalist living room that some religious families want to ignore being there.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

10. I know an evangelical Christian who is an avid amateur astronomer

and has written books about photographing through a telescope.

[PETRUS]

5. Glad you asked.

I think of myself as religious. I was raised in a protestant tradition, and I find it useful and have chosen not to worry about whether or not I am benefiting from a "real" or a metaphorical god.

I fully accept the theory of evolution, and furthermore, I think if you want to understand and get around in this world, science is useful to the point of being indispensable.

I also find the "four networks" theory of social power to be fairly compelling. What we call "religion" is one of them (along with the military, political, and economic realms). Economic power is what has truly been ruling the US, although religious appeals have proven to be quite effective in electoral politics. My opinion is that the prevalence of anti-science sentiment is a direct outgrowth of abuse of power by the governing elites - a divide and conquer strategy that that needs to be exposed and neutralized.

[David Sky]

6. Very insightful comments. I think of the OWS and the "economic" power that the..

USA has exerted for about 125 years on the world.

Now the USA is falling apart economically, simply because it's cheaper to buy labor elsewhere than in the USA, and then there are all the institutions, banks, mortgages, etc founded on the primacy of the USA's economic prowess.

The four networks, will have to study up upon that a bit.

Something gives me a slightly different perspective than your last statement, but we can talk more about it when I am more informed. I think the religious and the economic of the "four networks" are breaking down at the same time, due largely to incontrovertible evidence: it's cheaper to employ Chinese or Mexican labor, just as it's easier to be convinced of evolution than a 6000 year old planet, just facts!

Talk more later. Thanks for your thoughts!

[PETRUS]

7. Sure! I look forward to more. nt

[Deep13]

8. My unwillingness to reject evolution kept me from falling into fundamentalism completely.

Eventually it was the spark of doubt that led me out of the darkness.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

9. I was raised Lutheran and am now an Episcopalian, and I was never taught

to reject evolution.

My father (a Lutheran pastor) took the position, "The Bible is not a science textbook. It was written according to what people could understand at the time. God gave us brains, and it is a rejection of that gift not to use them."

When I was in high school (1960s), we studied evolution in biology class. The one Jehovah's Witness kid in our class refused to take biology because it dealt with evolution. We all thought he was nuts. Almost all of us were affiliated with some sort of church or synagogue, and we never heard anything about evolution either way.

We read Inherit the Wind and saw the movie in English class. We all thought the anti-evolution types were stupid.

I didn't start hearing about Creationism (or school prayer) until the Reagan administration, when the fundamentalists became politically useful.

I currently am part of a denomination that bases its doctrines and practices on "Scripture, tradition, and reason." As such, it has changed its positions on social issues with the times.

[struggle4progress]

11. The theory of evolution seems to me a towering intellectual achievement, a grand unification

of breath-taking scope and beauty, perhaps without parallel in the history of science

I find it inspiring and astonishing

But it does not compete, in my mind, with my religion: I do not think it conflicts in any way with my religion, nor do I think it could possibly function as a substitute for my religion

[David Sky]

12. Interesting way of thinking of evolution, but why would one need a

"substitute" for a religion?

[struggle4progress]

13. Your OP begins by setting "religion" beside "evolution" -- as if these were somehow

comparable or somehow in conflict

I understand that this juxtaposition of "religion" and "evolution" is not your own invention: the claim, that there is some essential choice to be made here, has been promoted ad nauseam by some religious propagandists and has been re-echoed ad nauseam by some anti-religious propagandists (notably Richard Dawkins, who seems increasingly unable nowadays to mention evolution without mentioning religion simultaneously)

I have no idea what you are trying to ask, or hoping to clarify, with your "Why?" question: this juxtaposition of "religion" and "evolution" seems silly to me -- I don't regard my religion as a substitute for scientific theories, nor do I regard scientific theories as a substitute for my religion