Penn Jillette's 10 Commandments for atheists

[DonCoquixote]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2011-10-28/penn-jillette-ten-commandments/50978982/1

Here is an atheist that has done more to humanize his cause than many others. If Dawkins could write with this level of clarity and humanity, religion would have a lot to worry about.

[valerief]

1. So he came up a list based on a religious framework. Why bother?

That's like coming up with a holy day for atheists.

Atheists don't need commandments. That's what laws are for.

[DonCoquixote]

3. religious framework?

Why not steal from people who, after all, stole their ideas from others? As far as laws, do you mean civil ones? Because frankly, as has been pointed out, many things are legal, but outright immoral.

[valerief]

6. Aren't the ten commandments a religious list? nt

[DonCoquixote]

15. they are an idea

used by religion, but no religion has any patent on ideas. Why not challenge Religion's "exclusive" hold on ideas like morality?

[valerief]

16. I'm sorry you're so upset but you're not making much sense to me. Good luck with your list. nt

[DonCoquixote]

25. OK, trying again

Why should we, knowing that religion does NOT have a hold on morality, allow them to set the tone? Why not steal their memes, and show that morality does NOT need religion? As long as we let them "frame the message" they get to maintain control of the debate.

[valerief]

40. Why not ignore their memes altogether? You can't fight religion with logic anyway.

They don't do logic. They do faith. You can't prove to them atheists have a moral code with a list. It means nothing to them without the deity.

[RaleighNCDUer]

42. Funny, I've found that logic is the best defense against religion.

Not against the religious, maybe, but certainly against religion.

[valerief]

43. Logic is one thing. Religious faith is another. Never the twain shall meet. nt

[Deep13]

79. Well, logic just makes sure that ones argument is internally consistent.

Granted, religion often fails to be logical. But I find facts--holding up an idea against the yardstick of reality--is the best defense against any authoritarian, dogmatic idea.

[DonCoquixote]

48. Because

They use those memes to try ans steal stuff that does not belong to them, such as "the meaning of life, the universe and everything", to quote Douglas Adams. As much as we would like to ignore them, we cannot, we do have to be active in the fight, and that includes rescuing memes like morality from them.

[valerief]

59. We do it by not enabling religion, not by mimicking it. nt

[snooper2]

64. the ten commandments are a set of biblical principles relating to ethics and worship

There are 313 words in the 10 commandments.
The Ten Commandments are not given any greater significance in observance or special status.
Jewish rituals dictate that the ten commandments are read twice a year.
Some religious Jews oppose the posting of the ten commandments in public schools, as they feel it is wrong for public schools to teach their children Judaism.
All the Ten Commandments are negative in structure, except for two the fourth and the fifth.

[valerief]

66. I thought if you broke one of them, you sinned. If you sin, you go to Hell unless you repent.

Kinda like the IRS.

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. He was asked to present 'commandments' but technically they are not

because there is no one there to command.

What these are, are "10 really good ideas to live by", and unlike with laws the enforcer is yourself.

[valerief]

44. Yeah, and there's no fear of eternal damnation if you break them. nt

[MedicalAdmin]

49. Did you read the article at the link?

He came up with it in response to a challenge. That's why.

[valerief]

60. And he could have said, "No. There's no reason for it." nt

[MedicalAdmin]

65. Hmmmmm. That's actually pretty good.

But it is hard to squeeze an easy article out of that.....;-)

[dionysus]

2. that RW blowhard?

:puke:

[valerief]

7. +100

[stuntcat]

9. +1

I won't read anything from him. Anyway I am proud to be my own kind of Atheist he will not give me shame in my people :p

[RaleighNCDUer]

31. Libertarian, not RW. Learn the difference. nt

[RebelOne]

52. You beat me to it. I was going to point out that fact. n/t

[valerief]

61. I knew that but they're as bad as RW to me. nt

[dionysus]

74. yeah, a RWer who likes sex and dope..

:shrug:

[kwassa]

75. Libertarians are RW. There is not a big difference with other conservatives..

They are a subset of conservatism.

[Deep13]

78. Libertarian is the opposite of authoritarian...

right wing (concentration of wealth) is the opposite of communism.

American libertarians are right-wing because they oppose socialist intervention in the economy or business regulations.

[Book Lover]

84. OK then. That Libertarian blowhard?!

Eff him. Signed, an atheist who is not aligned with any of the camera-happy atheists.

[Romulox]

4. Commandment #1: QUIT GOD-BOTHERING. That means YOU, Mr. "atheist".

To me, being an atheist means you DON'T constantly expound on the meaning of life, the universe, and everything--you've just told me you don't believe in all of that! DON'T constantly bring up religion. DON'T argue about it in the streets. DON'T push your credo (you've no basis to do so!).

STOP BOTHERING ME WITH YOUR VIEWS ABOUT THE EXISTENCE OR NON-EXISTENCE OF GOD! :grr:

[DonCoquixote]

18. explain this

Your quote:
"To me, being an atheist means you DON'T constantly expound on the meaning of life, the universe, and everything."

Philosophers do that all the time, especially atheist ones. Does that mean Atheists need to shut up about those questions? Someone needs to get that memo to Satre and Zizek then.

[Romulox]

21. You philosophizing isn't amplified by your atheism, is what I mean. It's just stuff you think.

The religious claim divine inspiration for their 10 commandments. Penn's are just his own thoughts. That means his philosophy has to stand on its own, and an appeal to atheism doesn't make it any more valid or sound.

Which is why it becomes apparent why Penn isn't paid for philosophy, and must glom his un-religion onto the whole mess to get us to listen to him. :shrug:

[fishwax]

20. being an atheist means you don't believe in "the meaning of life, the universe, and everything"?

I don't quite get what you mean there. What should prevent an atheist from talking about the meaning of life?

I agree with you that constantly bringing up/arguing about religion can be annoying, no matter who does it, but I don't get that first part.

[DonCoquixote]

27. thank you

for making my point :)

[Romulox]

30. You can call it "philosophy" if you like, but if it goes to the unknowable, it tends toward religion

I don't particularly care to hear a Theravedic Buddhist expound on the future of my soul, for example, based on the technicality that she doesn't believe the Buddha to be a god; I simply don't care to hear anyone expound about my "soul", period. That includes the non-existence thereof.

[RaleighNCDUer]

39. Of course philosophy goes to the unknowable. Science goes to the knowable.

Philosophy is merely an examination of the precepts upon which you base your life. Some people prefer religious philosophy, or other metaphysical philosophy. Some don't. Those that don't tend to be atheist.

Is morality quantifiable? Can justice be measured? Those are both in the province of religion and philosophy - only philosophy does not require a supernatural authority to address them.

[fishwax]

41. I don't care to hear anyone expound about my soul, either, but disagree with your subject line

and still don't understand why being an atheist means one doesn't believe in the meaning of life, etc.

[RaleighNCDUer]

23. did you even read the article? HE didn't bring it up.

Beck challenged him. He responded with "10 precepts for living". Do you disagree with any of the the 10?

[Romulox]

71. I disagree with the idea that Penn Gillette has any authority to tell me how to live.

Atheism means no god. That means no prophets. That means no preachers, too.

[RaleighNCDUer]

82. Atheism mean no god. It does not mean no philosophy, or no morals.

In fact, atheism (IMO) requires a far deeper philosophy because there is no 'holy book' that tells us what to do.

If you reject god and religion, you may be an atheist.

If you reject the concept of a social contract, you may be a sociopath.

[SidDithers]

24. Atheists will stop expounding on life, the universe and everything...

and will stop arguing about it in the streets as soon as the religious do.

Sid

[DonCoquixote]

34. Thank you

And frankly, since we know they will, I have no problem taking their ideas and de bugging them. Not like they would not steal atheist or agnostic ideas.

[LanternWaste]

58. So the one predicates its own...

So the one group predicates its actions on the actions of the other group? That's very independent...

[Romulox]

72. That's because many "atheists" are very much God Botherers. Many recently converted. nt

[msongs]

29. gee sounds like what christians do on the street, the media and creating christians only law lol nt

[Romulox]

73. Right. The stuff atheists are supposed to be AGAINST. nt

[Deep13]

80. Atheists have no special duty to shut up. nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. Really? You think Penn Jillette shows more 'humanity' than Dawkins?

That's strange, given his libertarian views, and Dawkins' view much further to the left.

And Dawkins is usually held to be a very clear writer; he has, after all, sold millions of science books.

[JoePhilly]

13. Here is a great Dawkins video on youtube ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT4EWCRfdUg

[ellenfl]

8. what's with the parens? (G)od. eom

[RaleighNCDUer]

70. It's in USA Today. I'm betting that in the original, from Penn, he wrote it

as 'god' but the USA Today standard is to always capitalize it to 'God', so to try to please both the writer and the editor, they compromised with (G)od - they could have done as well with "god (sic)".

Atheists don't tend to capitalize god in their writings.

[JoePhilly]

10. George Carlin fixed the 10 Commandments, reducing them to just 2 ...

http://everything2.com/title/George+Carlin%2527s+Revised+List+of+The+Two+Commandments

[Solomon]

53. Beat me to it. I was about to point this

out.

[pokerfan]

81. +1000

:thumbsup:

[HughBeaumont]

11. Penn Jillette also thinks taxes are "theft at gunpoint".

Blech.

[RaleighNCDUer]

35. Which of course negates the "be excellent to each other" list. nt

[edhopper]

12. These are interesting

and show much more humanity than the Bible's 10 (or 20 or whatever)
But Dawkins has done far more to make the atheist point of view clear and compelling than Mr. Penn ever will hope to.

[GreenArrow]

68. The Ten Commandments pre-date the Bible.

.

[dtexdem]

14. What a wonderful list!

If everyone would write and act in accordance with this list, we would all have less to worry about.

But look for the fundies of all stripes to denounce and unrec this.

[LeftinOH]

17. There's only one atheist "commandment", and here it is:

[gateley]

28. It kind of encompasses everything, doesn't it?

[hifiguy]

22. Dawkins writes with a combination of insight,

logic and rapier wit that I, as one who makes his living with the written word in different contexts, can only envy. His only equal in writing about science for intelligent laypeople was the late, great Carl Sagan.

[Fumesucker]

38. Isaac Asimov and Richard Feynman weren't slouches at science writing for laypeople..

Asimov in particular had hundreds of books published, more than a few of which were science popularizations.

[valerief]

45. +1

[DonCoquixote]

55. I agree

Indeed, I think both of them were a lot better than Dawkins.

[Fumesucker]

67. More a question of style and taste..

I personally have enjoyed all of them and quite a few more, David Attenborough is good on video and I've always enjoyed James Burke's Connections.

I'd hate to have to pick one that was "best"..

[MedicalAdmin]

57. Gotta go with you on this one Fumesucker.

The Feynman lectures (and his books ) and the Asimov non fiction books are all excellent. I always found Sagan to be a little pontifical, kinda like the reading version of listening to a sermon, but different strokes = different folks.

[gateley]

26. I think it's a good list, and it's the list I'm commenting on, not the source. nt

[stuntcat]

47. yah. It's a shame we need people to tell us these things over and over

by the 200th time we've seen this stuff.. even when it come from this guy.. humans still act like we're being given some revelation.

When I say this stuff no one listens to me :shrug:

[gateley]

51. I appreciate the reminders as often as they are offered - I lapse! nt

[NeedleCast]

32. Deleted

Self Delete.

[Bunny]

33. President of Douchebagistan, maybe.

[NeedleCast]

36. I like Thread Where Atheists Tell Atheists How To Be Atheist

That's always fun.

I like Jillette's list. I like it in the same way I like the atheist billboards and bus advertisements that suggest that one can be a good person without being religious. When more people come to realize that religion and morality are not the same thing, things might get better.

[DonCoquixote]

37. I agree

Even the UU does not get all hard telling you how to be a UU, why should atheism have sacred cows?

[LanternWaste]

54. I didn't overcook any sacred cows with that one...

"I've got no problem with atheism-- it's like Pauly Shore: I can see the appeal, but wouldn't stand in line for the movie..."

(My niece, age twelve, a few weeks ago)


Hope she/I didn't overcook any sacred cows with that one. :evilgrin:

[NeedleCast]

56. Cows shouldn't be cooked past medium-rare anyway

(12 year olds know who Pauly Shore is? Wow, dude has staying power that I did not think imaginable).

[Sabriel]

46. I like #4 and #10

And overall, I appreciate that it's a list that doesn't even take itself seriously all the time. We need more of that.

[iris27]

50. Eh, he's a libertarian jackass.

Maybe he's nice and "humanizing" here, but don't get him started on taxes or the EPA unless you want a faceful of vitriol.

[geardaddy]

62. Bingo.

[Abin Sur]

63. Penn & Teller rock. I *loved* their show "Bullshit!"

[Humanist_Activist]

69. Eh, there should just be one "Thou shall not believe in bullshit." n/t

[Deep13]

76. He does.

And unlike Jillette, Dawkins does not shill for Bullshit! neo-liberal causes.

[Deep13]

77. Oh good. I've been waiting for an authoritarian, dogmatic list of rules!

I'm kidding. Good guidelines, although by supporting libertarian ideology he has already said that he will not be there when your house is on fire. I enjoy many of his rants and his Vegas stage show.

[humblebum]

83. Those are admirable. I used to enjoy Penn until

I realized what an anti-religious bigot the man is. Instant diss.