The end of our reproductive freedoms... I am worried.

[Kerrytravelers]

Maybe rightly so. Maybe not. If the fillabuster is ended by the nuclear option, they will appoint judges to overturn Roe and that is it. It is over.

What will be our next step, as women? Will there be Vera Drakes, women who risk it all? I have seen "If These Walls Could Talk" and even now, three years later, it gives me chills. Just the image of Demi Moore is too much for me to think about.

I am nervous to volunteer as a clinic escort because of the crazy pro-birth zealots. I admire the brave men and women who risk their lives everyday for the rights of women. Thank you. Almost everyday, I drive by the Planned Parenthood where I live, but no one is there, protesting (I love in a VERY LIBERAL AREA) and there are no clinic escorts at all. I went in there during the Kerry campaign to drop off literature. Everything seemed quiet. Right now, we don't have great health care, so PP is a grat option, but a "Right to Life" (what a name) is just one block away and I always think, in the back of my mind, what if I'm there when something happends? AM I a coward? I don't know.


DUers who remember life before Row, how did you get through it? Advice to us who are too young to remember life without Roe.

I'm sorry if I seem whiney and silly, I just read through NARAL's "Professor Bush's Absistence Test" and realized (as if it weren't already evident) women are second class human beings.

[mzmolly]

1. Thanks for all you do.

I don't remember life before Roe, but I know that "unsafe and illegal" is the unfortunate alternative.

[benevolent dictator]

2. Too young to know about life before Roe

but I just wanted to say you're lucky to not have people protesting! I used to drive by about three women's clinics on the way to school, and every day at least one of them would have these old women and old men(!!) outside protesting, strollers with pictures of fetuses in them and anti-abortion signs and such.

I always wanted to stop and either a) pass out adoption forms to them or b) hand them coat hangers (I even toyed with the idea of putting like, a shrimp on the end and dipping it in ketchup to look like an aborted fetus) and tell them that that is what their actions will lead to.

Eventually, I just started driving a different route to school because I never had time to stop but it just made me too mad. Actually, I might have stopped if there had been anyone other than old people who looked like they might keel over at any second, but I figured there was just no reasoning with them and it wasn't worth wasting my time on.

[sharonking21]

3. Every weekend that I go to my credit union

protesters are present at the clinic next door. This weekend they were just a little old man and his wife with an inoffensive sign, but often they are much more numerous, younger, rather frightening, and much more offensive as to their displays.

Also my gynecologist quit practicing at the age of 49 and went back to school to do something else. I know he also worked in family planning clinics that gave abortions. I believe he just got exhausted from waiting to be shot.

I'm 62. What was it like? Nerve-wracking. Deadly. Shameful. Not talked about in "decent" circles--but it happened all the time (Humph). I was lucky. Never got "caught" so didn't have to have one. But I had equally "sinful" friends (females--males weren't sinful, of course) who either had an abortion or went off to maternity homes or got married at a way too young age.

[Middling]

4. Abortion will never be outlawed

Abortion will never be outlawed until there is an official position on birth control pills. Plain old, every body takes them-no, not the morning after-not the month later-birth control pills produce abortions. Do a Google search, read how they work, don't write that I'm crazy unless you look it up first.
To formulate an official government position on birth control pills, the government would need to define when life begins. If the government defined when life begins, organized religion would throw a fit.

But what are the odds that Bush will even bring the subject up for discussion? If the issue is openly discussed, then the sales of birth control pills will drop. They will drop because there will be complete confusion regarding which method does what. Does anyone except the religious right think that Bush would actually take a chance on jeopardizing drug company profits to make a moral stand? Bush said that America “is not ready” to consider a complete ban on abortions. What he didn’t say was that America will never be ready, as long as the drug companies might be affected.

Bottom line, yes or no, do you expect that Bush will do anything additional for the pro-life cause? My prediction is that he will do absolutely nothing.

[Lars39]

5. You are misinformed.

From http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/0663.html

"Birth control pills fool the body into acting as if it's pregnant. Birth control pills, also called oral contraceptives (OCs), come in two forms: the combined OC, a combination of two synthetic hormones, estrogen and progestin; and, the minipill, which consists solely of progestin. Combined OCs are more commonly used, though both kinds are available through health care providers. The combination pill prevents ovulation by suppressing the natural hormones in the body that would stimulate the ovary to release an egg. By taking this estrogen throughout the month, you insure that no egg will be developed or released for that cycle. Progestin thickens the cervical mucus, hindering the movement of sperm. Progestin also prevents the uterus's lining from developing normally; so, if an egg were fertilized, implantation is unlikely.

The minipills, which contain no estrogen, inhibit the egg's ability to travel through the fallopian tubes, alter the cervical mucus to block sperm, partially suppress the sperm's ability to unite with an egg, and partially inhibit implantation in the uterine wall. For maximum effectiveness, you need to take the pills as prescribed."

[Middling]

6. But, what do the pro-lifers believe?

Some Christian pro-life groups, which claim to have medical expertise, insist that the birth control pill may work in more than one way. They claim that if conception is not prevented, then an abortion is induced, all from the same pill, and that there is no way of knowing what mode of efficacy the pill will employ that month. They claim that there is no line between prevention of conception, and induced abortion.
http://www.epm.org/articles/bcp3300.html
The main issue is not how they work, but that the Republican politicians aren’t going to take a chance on a public debate of how they work. A public debate would affect the sales of the pill, which would upset the drug companies. The Republicans aren’t going to upset their major supporters.
This is why the Republicans have invented the “activist judiciary”, to explain why they can’t take any action on abortion. The judiciary is not subject to public debates, whereas, a Constitutional Amendment would be. They have convinced all the Republisheep to patiently wait around until a judge dies, or they can get “one of theirs” appointed. Even if Bush appointed the whole court, abortion would still remain legal. They aren’t going to take any chances on those drug company profits being disrupted, just to maintain their “moralistic” hoax.

[Lars39]

7. The anti-choicers are trying to redefine medical terms like abortion

to accomplish what they want, just like they did when they invented/re-named "partial birth abortion".

[HockeyMom]

8. Pharmacists refusing to dispense both birth control and Morning After

Chip, chip, away. The problem is that the religious right and science define pregnancy differently. Because anywhere from 40% to 60% of fertilized eggs never implant naturally, science defines pregnancy as from implantation, not fertilization. The religious right thinks it is from conception. They are blind to the fact that the majority of fertilized eggs are flushed and never implant. The really extreme (lot of Catholics) go so far as to prohibit anything that interferes with a sperm and an egg meeting (condoms, diaphragms, sterilization).

Both types of pills do prevent ovulation. They also make the cervical mucus intolerable to sperm, and also thin the uterine lining so if an egg is fertilized it cannot implant. Of course, nobody can ever know which is happening, as in a natural conception, and this is where they call it abortion. The Morning After Pill is really just a high dosage of the progestin only mini pill. The same effect can be achieved simply by taking 2 or 3 birth control pills a day for a couple of days. I guess theoretically a doctor could just prescribe one month's supply of plain birth control pills, double up on them, instead of Morning After pill.

Getting to the legalities of them overturning Roe, I often wonder if they were to overturn it, would they be able to without overturning Griswold too which was the precedence for Roe. That could really be a major, major disaster. If a woman does not have the right to privacy to control her body in the case of an abortion, does she have ANY right to control her body (birth control)?

I wish we had a few lawyers here who could answer the repercussions of all this, in legal terms.

[Middling]

9. Let's get serious

Let’s get serious.
The average Bush Republican voter has low self-esteem, and is very self-centered. The pro-life position appeals to them, since they don’t need to change anything in their lives. They can just pop their birth control pill, go to church, and get a warm and fuzzy feeling when they mentally condemn everybody who doesn’t agree with them to hell. They don’t give a hoot about children; they just want the feeling of self-righteousness. If they actually cared about children, they would be a little more concerned about feeding and clothing the ones who are actually alive already.
These people aren’t going to give up their birth control pills. They don’t care how they work. They just aren’t the type of people who are going to inconvenience themselves for “moral beliefs”. If they perceive that the Republicans are going to take away their pills, they will all suddenly decide that they need a choice in the matter.
The “pro-life” issue is a religious freedom issue. When life begins is a religious issue. Not, a political issue. It is the freedom from having someone else dictate their religious beliefs into law.

[MichiganVote]

10. Relying on a supposed psychological profile of a select number

of republicans is hardly my idea of security from reproductive tyranny or any form of regressive reproductive mandate.

This is the heart of the issue. Women now have choice. Segments in this society want to remove that choice. For those of us who were around during the decades that led to the option of choice, anything less than what is available today is unacceptable.

When life begins has become a political issue. When a legislature drafts a bills specific to one brain dead female and a president signs it in the dead of night, women feel threatened and rightfully so.

Has this administration done anything to address the fears of women about not having choice? No. And they never will FOR political reasons.

edit/spelling

[Kerrytravelers]

11. The "pro-life" issue is a religious freedom issue?

You're kidding, right?

Here is a Yahoo! Search on "pro-life." Read the links Tell me where is it about religious freedom. It is about ending a woman's or a families private medical decision that should be private between a woman, her doctor and those who chooses to confide in.

Notice on page #3, there is On page #2, there is Silent Scream, a streaming video of an abortion.

I'm not sure what religious freedom has to do with anything. If their religion teaches them not to support a woman's right to choose, then they are fre not to have or suppot abortions.

[cap]

13. this is psuedoscience just like Intelligent Design

the GOP is very clever at marketing and obscuring the issues. It is time to tear off the veil and show them for the hypocrites that they are.

[Warpy]

12. You are misdefining abortion

and in any case, birth control pills suppress ovulation. Without ovulation, there is no egg to fertilize. Without a fertilized egg, there is no blastocyst. Without a blastocyst, there is no implantation, without implantation there is no pregnancy, and without a pregnancey, there is no abortion.

I would strongly suggest you read reputable medical sites like medscape, medline, and others instead of relying on the hysterical press from the Catholic church and other right wing religious people who don't bother to read medical literature to find out the truth and will sit there and LIE LIE LIE.

Completely outlawing abortion will be an uphill battle because the corporate world has gotten used to a huge labor force that only gets paid seventy cents to the male dollar.

All this horseshit about birth control causing abortion is just that: medically ignorant horseshit.

[cap]

14. there are a lot of pro-choice Catholics who agres with you.

62% of Catholics are pro-choice. You no playa da game, You no maka da rules.

[LissaM]

15. Catholic

I'm Catholic and pro-Choice.

So are my mother, sister, grandparents, aunts, uncles, male cousins and female.

I'm also pro gay marriage (GASP!).

The difference between my pro-choice and my mothers is, I would consider having an abortion if I needed to. My mother wouldn't, but would not want to limit anyone elses right to choose... Which is how I think a lot of people who are Catholic and pro-choice feel.

Everyone can choose their positions but not everyone is educated on it. Education is the first step, and no, I'm not talking abstinence education (thanks, George!), cause that's the biggest load of bullshit since his last lie five minutes ago.

[Warpy]

17. Horse. Shit.

Birth control pills prevent ovulation. No egg, no fertilization. No fertilization, no cell division. No cell division, no blastocyst. No blastocyst, no implantation, no implantation, no pregnancy.

NO PREGNANCY=NO ABORTION!

Got that yet?

[Warpy]

16. I lost a friend before Roe

She would never tell us whether she tried to do it herself or she'd gone to a butcher. I just know it took her 3 days to die of sepsis and that I have missed her all my life.

The leading cause of death for women of childbearing age in countries where abortion is illegal is illegal abortion.

Ministers led the fight for safe, legal abortion in the late 60s. Too many had been called to emergency rooms to deal with butchered, bleeding and dying church members.

It was a holocaust.