Why Late Pregnancy Abortions Happen

[politicat]

No matter what the forced birthers say, women DO NOT wake up 22 weeks pregnant and put "Get an abortion today" on their To Do lists. It does not happen. Women who must have late pregnancy abortions need them for medical reasons, not financial or personal ones.

We cannot detect birth defects - especially Neural Tube Defects - until at least the 14th week of pregnancy. That's into the second trimester, and most women who are pregnant at the beginning of their second trimester are pregnant because they want to parents. (There are exceptions, but they are rare.) The women who must have abortions after this mark must have them because they will die or their child is already dead, going to die or unable to live out here. These women must make terrible and painful decisions: put their lives at further risk by carrying and trying to deliver a dead child or end the pregnancy and grieve for the lost child.

There are reasons: toxemia, hydrocephaly, anecephaly, eclampsia, spina bifida (and heavy metals poisoning is a known cause of spina bifida) holoprosencephalocele (where the brain does not divide), microcephaly, German measles, septicemia, cancer, parvovirus infection, intraventricular hemorrhage (visible on ultrasound only after the 16th week if visible at all), limb-body wall complexes, oligohydramnios (too little amniotic fluid), Rh incompatibility.

Any of these can happen to any woman and in any pregnancy. That they are rare is beside the point. They happen.

If you need the ammunition to deal with forced birthers, the pictures are at the links below. Perhaps we need to look at the images we don't want to face to know what it is we're going to lose if we don't act.

WARNING: Graphic Images in Links
http://www-medlib.med.utah.edu/WebPath/PEDHTML/PEDIDX.html#3
http://members.fortunecity.com/danilhammoudimd/neuro1/id26.htm

[mzmolly]

1. K & R

too important not to educate EVERONE about these issues.

[Triana]

2. k & r - thank you thank you (n/t)

[Mythsaje]

3. Unfortunately the people in SD already lost out...n/t

[Erika]

4. The right wingers hate women, they think women are chattel

They think women have no soul, intelligence, or compassion. A bunch of sickos.

The only woman I have ever known who had a third trimester abortion did so because Xrays showed her baby girl had a massive heart abnormality where the baby could never survive the birth canal.

Testimony after testimony in WH hearings revealed these cases as the reason for PBA. Evidently some mentally sick women and men prefer women suffer through labor to deliver a dead child.

Like the democrat woman in SD.

[leftstreet]

5. Right wingers fear sexuality

Especially a woman's sexual nature.

Christian fundy nutjobs believe sex is a "sin." They want to think it's a necessary "evil" that produces a child. But the realization that sex is pleasurable just makes them NUTS. And the thought that a woman might enjoy sex, or dare to pursue it as something outside of procreation, just drives them wild.

It's so obvious when they say they're willing to agree to abortion if the woman was raped. If she can prove it wasn't her "fault" - her "sin."

[Suich]

6. Thanks so much for posting this!

K & R

[Digit]

7. I have posted previously on my own situation which happened years ago

I am wondering if this would come under this classification.
Afterall, they had to do a D&C in the end.

I was in my fifth month of pregnancy when my baby died inside of me. I knew the instant it happened...don't ask me how. I had been spotting beforehand, and had been put on bedrest.
I sat up on the edge of my bed with my hand to my stomach and KNEW he was gone.

I went back to the doctor to have my OB check, and he could not find a heartbeat. My uterus kept shrinking and no heartbeat could be found, week after week.

It was so long ago, that I cannot truly say how long I carried my dead fetus, but I know it was more than a month...maybe two months. The doctor was a pro-lifer and I did not realize the implications of that.

I was in danger...the decomposing baby was being absorbed by my body and could have killed me.
They first tried to induce, and I cannot describe the pain I had to endure during that time. Then, they decided to do the D&C, but later could not tell me the sex of the baby as it was too mascerated. It was the first time I had ever heard the term. That is when they described what had been happening to my body.

Can someone else tell me what would happen to another woman in this situation?
Would "terminating" the pregnancy be outlawed in this situation? It was not a viable pregnancy to BEGIN with...just my body would not naturally expell it for some reason.

To not intervene would be a death sentence. The toxicity would overtake the otherwise healthy body of the mother, and you would have two deaths on your hands.

[Erika]

9. Our thoughts are with you

How horrible. No where in the South Dakota law does it allow for abortion of dead fetuses. How sad and potentially dangerous for the mother.

[Digit]

11. If this is the case, then I am terrified for for the future

On logic alone, a healthy woman whose uterus is absorbing a dead fetus would be detrimental to the health of the mother is a no brainer. The toxins from decomposition can KILL the mother! The fetus is already DEAD, there is no hope of it being born ALIVE.
It was dead long ago, it HAPPENS. It is unfortunate to be sure.

To prolong this scenerio, would be horrible.

[Pachamama]

16. And its not just in SD that this will be the case...its going to come down

to the decision of SCOTUS taking up the case of late term abortion using the Dilation and Extraction method (aka Partial Birth Abortion - a created term for pro-fetus groups).

Anyway, I just cringed at your story because I know that this happens and its so sad and so awful and yes, medically is an endangerment to the woman's health.

You could have died because of that Doctor....And I think of the women who in the future in these kind of circumstances may have to die now as a result of these laws that they want to impose on women's reproductive choices.

I'm so angry about this...

:hug: for you about your experience....I hope you were able to have healthy pregnancies after this unfortunate one...

[Digit]

17. To just state one more time, I wanted this child

I was eagerly awaiting his birth. The beginning of my pregnancy was filled with joy. I was thrilled and happy to be pregnant with my first child.

He died inside of me, and I guess I lack whatever is the hormone to make it spontaneously abort on it's own, so I needed medical intervention. When I DID later have a successful pregnancy, I did not go into labor, either, even weeks after my water broke. I also had gone through the same "spotting", so I feared I would also lose this child.
They ended up having to do a C-Section as my daughter was breech. I guess there are women who lack whatever it is to make them go into labor.


I have been told by other medical personnel that I was lucky I did not die due to the toxins I was exposed to. They officially called it a "missed abortion".

The world is not black and white, but shades of grey.
You cannot create a law which governs all of these cases without causing unforeseen deaths in the process.
Nobody elects to abort a child at such a late stage at a whim.
Give us women a break, please. It is heartbreaking enough to do on our own.

[niyad]

many years ago, I was watching a movie (sorry, I don't remember the

name, just caught part of it) and a woman was in labour. the doctor told her brother, a priest, that if they didn't take the fetus, the woman would die. the priest basically sentenced her to death, saying that if the woman died, that was only natural, but aborting the fetus would be murder.

THAT is part of the mentality of the woman-hating, pro-forced birth anti-choicers.

[sarahlee]

34. The movie was

The Cardinal I think. Saw it when I was a young girl and freaked me out.

[Nothing Without Hope]

8. K & R. This needs to be more widely understood. n/t

[Bozvotros]

10. That was hard to look at...

But necessary. The fundies do like to talk about third trimester abortions as if most were just women too lazy to get one earlier and are all healthy fully formed babies. I am going to send this to some fundies that I know.

And won't it be interesting to see how long the state will keep these fetuses alive when their only coverage is Medicaid and their Medicaid program is already broke?

[Gelliebeans]

12. K & R

[Pachamama]

13. The reason for Dilation & Extraction (the correct term) in late term is

as a last resort because its goal is the concern and care for the health and safety of the MOTHER! While I realize that to many people having a C-Section is no big deal, it is MAJOR SURGERY that can carry a lot of risks such as infection and yes, even death.

A friend of mine who had been trying desperately for years to get pregnant finally did and then they found out that the fetus had some defect (I forget what the medical term was - I think it was associated with Meningitis?) but in any event, the baby would never survive and trying natural vaginal delivery was not possible due to the enlarged cranium that therefore posed a risk to the Mother and meanwhile a c-section as surgery also posed risks, so therefore they had to perform a Dilation & Extraction procedure to terminate the pregnancy. She was devastated, but there were no options. The baby was never going to live and was essentially dead already and it was now a medical decision for her life. No one "chose" this ending, it was the only option if her health was the most important factor.

She has since I'm happy to say had two healthy children and has never felt that her D & E of her first pregnancy was some horrific thing that she did. She saved her life and was able to bring two other children into the world who are healthy and have a mother. The first pregnancy and fetus who had this serious defect could not survive. Why D & E would be banned is insane. Ofcourse the procedure is gruesome if you think of what it involves. However if anyone had seen the condition of her deformed baby, it was no more gruesome. But the reality is that this procedure is rarely used and used for cases such as the one described above and in the cases shown in the links you provided. THESE FETUSES COULDN'T SURVIVE!

Anyway, if the Supreme Court with Roberts and Alito state that this procedure is outlawed and uphold the "Partial Birth Abortion Ban Law" that 3 other courts have said is not legal due to no exception for the health of the mother, then we should all shudder knowing that women are going to be dying. Pure and simple and wrong. :cry:

[Erika]

14. The only PBA I knew of was the girl with only one heart

chamber. There is no way she could have been born alive.

How very sad. Rightwingers would force her mother to go thru labor and the child born dead on arrival. There was no way the baby could have survived the birth canal.

Feel proud of yourselves in South Dakota?

[politicat]

19. Yes, I know the term.

The Forced birthers do not, or pretend not to know. If this is what it takes to wake them up, then I will speak their language.

[AtomicKitten]

15. I believe "late term abortion" is a red herring.

I have transcribed surgery reports for 30 years all over California, the most liberal state in the nation, and NOT ONCE, let me repeat NOT ONE SINGLE TIME have I ever come across such a procedure. Frankly if they exist they are few and far between and I have no doubt done to save the mother's life or for some catastrophic birth defect.

I honestly believe from my experience that this is bullshit to make the anti-choice crowd weep into their hankies.

[politicat]

18. I do, too, but I will use the terms that get their attention.

I hate doing it, but to speak to the dead, one must speak in the tongues of the dead.

[bliss_eternal]

20. Great post, politicat--

:thumbsup:

[readmoreoften]

21. We should hand these pictures out like the pro-lifers do.

These forced birthers are monsters. They should be forced to listen to these stories and view these photos.

[Virginia Dare]

22. I think the vast majority of the rational thinkers in this country

realize that, there will be a major political shit storm if this goes through.

[The Witch]

23. devil's advocate. Spina Bifida is not a reason to abort.

I have a friend who has the most severe form of Spina Bifida. Hole in her heart and all. Her parents were told she wouldn't live a year. She's twenty something, an actress and model, and getting married.

I'm not saying that there aren't 100% lethal birth defects which certainly seem a reason to abort, but there are also birth defects that can be overcome.

[Warpy]

24. Of course, but YOU aren't qualified to make the choice for anyone else

If a severely deformed child is forced on a family, that child my use up all their resources: financial, emotional and physical. That means that family will never be able to try to have a healthy child. When this deformed child will probably not have a normal lifespan, a normal life, a normal anything, this is tragic on many levels.

I'm glad your friend fared better. Most people with spina bifida do fare better, but they do need a lot of care and it's a lifelong proposition. It's up to the individual mother and her family to decide whether or not they have the resources to expend on a severely deformed child. I can't make the choice for them and neither can you.

[Ayesha]

33. Stop calling my friends "deformed"

I have two friends with spina bifida and they are nothing of the kind. They are both very intelligent, one is employed full-time and owns her own home, the other is a highly talented artist and dog trainer. In fact the latter friend would probably run you over with her wheelchair for making these kinds of offensive comments!

The prejudice and ignorance on this forum regarding disabled people is ASTOUNDING.

[politicat]

25. For her parents, it was not a reason. For others, it may be.

The point of pro-choice is allowing parents and doctors to make the decisions regarding what they can financially, physically and emotionally cope with. There was a lot more funding for children with disabilities even through the 80s than there is now - between cuts, failure to fund, the exponential growth of medical costs and inflation, the dollars it took to help a disabled infant have dwindled.

To DA back at you, 20 something years ago, the diagnostic tests that are available even ten years ago were not widely available. My mother could not have an amnio or an ultrasound with my sisters or me because the technology was not available to us yet, and we had excellent health care through the Navy. My sisters are 27 and 25. If her doctor had thought there might be a problem, my mother would have had to make the 200+ mile round trip to Chicago to a specialist, something not easily done. Fortunately, they were healthy. So while your friend's parents coped admirably, they may not have had the advance warning that we have access to now and simply accepted the situation they were handed.

Every parent has to decide what s/he can cope with. Before abortion and prenatal testing, parents who couldn't cope for whatever reason ended up institutionalizing their children. The lucky ones had parents who could cope - but not every kid is lucky. Your friend was. Going back to institutionalizing the unlucky ones is not an option as far as I'm concerned. That just prolongs a death.

[rodriguez94]

27. yes, the whole point is it should be a woman's choice, both parents most

likely at this point..and the doctors...not the government.

[Vektor]

29. Definitely a an appropriate place on this thread to encourage pregnant

women, or women considering becoming pregnant to talk to their doctor about folic acid supplements, and the importance of getting enough of this essential nutrient - maternal folate deficiency is the single most important factor in the likelihood of a baby being born with Spina Bifida.

:hug: for you and your courageous friend.

[rodriguez94]

26. ok..these were bad..and awakening...

so now the women that have to endure this will have to drive to another freaking state? Send these photos to everyone you know you even doubts the slightest reason for allowing such a ban!

[cshore]

30. With the current state of affairs...

I can imagine women being forced to have babies with unspeakable birth defects. And then when they need help/programs to assist them in raising these children? The Republicans will be NOWHERE to be found.

[IronLionZion]

28. Shit, I had no idea

but what you said makes a lot of sense. I had opposed late term abortions until today.

However, my father who is a doctor told me that removing an already dead fetus is definitely NOT abortion and is not banned. It would violate the Hippocratic oath to NOT remove it.

[HockeyMom]

31. Watched hearing on CSPAN

One woman was testifying that she had an abortion at 8 months. Apparently, her pregnancy was normal up to that point. She started having complications (don't remember what) then and an ultrasound was performed. It showed that the fetus had no brain, just the brain stem. She had the so called PBA. There is absolutely no chance that fetus would have survived. She said had she known this earlier in the pregnancy, she would have aborted much earlier. Yet, the Right to Lifers in this hearing ripped her apart. She was in tears. They said that that baby deserved to live the 9 months of her pregnancy and even the SECONDS after birth. One said she did not deserve to even be a mother if she did not want to hold that baby after birth and "make peace with God."

You have to understand these are not RATIONAL people we are dealing with. ANYONE with a REAL HEART would never want to put that poor woman, and her husband, in such a cruel situation. In essence, they would force her to carry a "dead" baby for nine months.

[cshore]

32. I would LOVE...

to see how any of those Right to Lifers would react if THEY had to face such heartache and misery. It's easy to throw stones when YOU'RE not the one that has to endure such a terrible heartbreak, followed by having to make a gut-wrenching descision.