To Lurking Anti Choice Freepers (Warning Graphic)

[HockeyMom]

LOOK at what your leaders have done. LOOK at what you would force upon women. Would you show a woman an ULTRASOUND of this? Would YOU adopt one of these babies?

http://aeronautics.ru/archive/du-watch/iraq_images/

As a woman and a MOTHER of two, you make me sick to my stomach.

[whistle]

1. Sorry but the use of depleted uranium (DU) is untethered militarism

...distain for human rights and protection of corporate greed and power. In other words, fascism

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

[JuniperLea]

3. Regardless...

Children are born like this every day, and for many other reasons than DU.

It doesn't matter the cause of the birth defect, it matters that we're being forced to keep pregnancies that will result in this much suffering.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HockeyMom]

5. You are totally missing the point

There are genetic mutations which occur naturally. Sorry, I cannot remember the scientific terms. I could not find a graphic representing the scope of the physically and mentally deformed who I have worked with. I am not talking Downs syndrome here. I work with the mentally and physically impaired. I have worked with a few who it took every ounce of my strength to care for. You simply cannot imagine what genetic malformations there are. These individuals, in most cases, were born before Roe. Their parents abandoned them. Nobody would adopt them, and they are wards of the state to the tune of millions of dollars for their care.

Yet, this administration and the religious right would FORCE women to give birth to them. As I said, would showing women an ultrasound make a difference? Would THEY adopt them? Do THEY want their tax dollars to go for their care for the rest of their lives?

[JuniperLea]

2. I HATE ABORTION!!!! But I'm pro-choice...

Any human being who would suffer a poor child like that to live, is a freak of nature... a subhuman!

Abortion is a horrid thing, and I don't think any one of us would have one if we didn't really have to, and after much soul searching. Sometimes we don't know there is a problem with an unborn child until later on in the pregnancy. If I were to find this out about my child, I would not hesitate to end the pregnancy. It's cruel and inhuman to ask a child like that to live.

Like I said, I hate abortion. I would never, ever have one... unless this was the issue. I'd tough it out... I know I would, because that's exactly what I did with my first child.

This sickens me.

[Warpy]

13. That's the problem, nobody likes abortion

Nobody likes gall bladder surgery, either, even if they need to have it. It's expensive and painful, but one recovers when it's over.

I'd no more want abortion back into the hands of quacks and butchers than I would any other surgery.

If it's not your body, butt out. Antiabortion laws have never stopped abortion, only the safe ones. Antiabortion laws kill women.

[Iris]

15. Exactly. I don't hate abortion. I would think it is a welcome reliefe to many who undergo one.

[bjorkfan]

17. What do disabled-rights advocates believe about this issue?

[rebecca_herman]

4. I don't understand...

How can they claim to be "pro-life" and yet promote forcing a woman to risk her health and potentially her future ability to try and have a healthy child should she wish, in order to bring a life into the world that will know nothing but suffering and a more prolonged and miserable death? That is not the least bit "pro-life." Why not care about the quality of life for human beings... instead of insisting on bringing a life into the world no matter what the physical and emotional costs to others and no matter how terrible that life will be?

[JuniperLea]

8. You can't use good logic like this to figure them out...

There's nothing logical about this decision.

You're right. Sometimes it's no fun being right.

[one mean sheath]

19. imho

it's cause "pro-life" laws allow continued control by men and government over women's bodies and lives, thereby keeping them in a second-class citizens standing.

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

6. So is your point that abortion should not be prohibited . . . .

. . . in the case severe prenatal defects and deformities? What about in other cases?

[rebecca_herman]

7. I think the post was directed at...

those who criticized late term abortions as eugenics and killing the disabled. And say a child is a gift no matter what and you HAVE to let it be born alive and keep it alive no matter the cost to the child and its family.

Most abortions later in pregnancy when the banned method might potentially be used are done because the fetus is found to have serious health problems, next largest cause would be health problems for the pregnant woman, I don't know the statistics but I imagine that in cases where the fetus was healthy and old enough to live outside the woman, and the woman did not have health issues, the number of abortions would be extremely, extremely small, because I can't imagine a woman being able to find a doctor who would do one under those circumstances.

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

9. If late term abortions were only performed . . . .

. . . on severely deformed fetuses, I think I could follow the logic of that point. But unless the argument is that late term abortions should be permitted in the case of such deformities and not in other situations, then resort to such arguments (and graphic pictures in support of such arguments) seems to me to be a resort of emotionalism in lieu of logic.

If one's position is that access to a late term abortion in ALL cases is a woman's right upon which the government should not be permitted to infringe, then that's one position. Fine. But pointing out that, in SOME cases, a late term abortion serves the purposes of sparing the woman the pain of having to carry to term a severely deformed child, doesn't lend support to the first proposition at all.

[frogcycle]

11. and at the end of the day

except for those who fancy themselves keepers of the truth because their god whispers in their ear, it is nobody's business

a human female is capable of producing an egg, which can be fertilized and grow into another being. She should have the option of stopping that growth. period.

[Iris]

16. There have been accounts here of women forced to carry stillborn children until the woman goes into

labor. I knew of one woman who was in that situation in the 70s and others here have mentioned knowing women like that as well. It seems that when abortion laws become too complex, doctors are reluctant to perform them for fear of legal action against them. So, the alternative is for the woman to carry around a dead fetus - which risks her life and her chances of having children in the future.

[Nobody]

14. And those who would make the choice for others

Do nothing to help with the choice they made for these same others. The so-called "compassionate conservatives" love to make personal choices for you, and then do their best to enact laws that make it more difficult to live with the choice they made for you.

Whether a woman gives birth is not up for a referendum.

[HockeyMom]

10. I am also looking at this having nearly died

from a pregnancy, albeit, not a late term pregnancy. However, from my own personal experience of having a pregnancy that almost killed me, I CAN see both arguments; life of mother, fetal deformities.

Unfortunately, there are MULTIPLE involved issues here.

[Cornfields_4_Peace]

12. Images

The point about the DU is valid and those babies and their relatives pay the highest price. Society also pays a price by becoming more and more un-civilized. There is nothing more grotesque than those photos you showed and I am glad you took the time to do so.

The world needs to know the ramifications to pacifying dictators who plunder and rape countries like Kuwait. The World stepped up to stop that carnage but was slow to show real resolve when cease fire agreements were breached. This lack of resolve leads to war and photos like you have shown. How many more dictators will we ignore only to face future wars and more DU babies.

Equally as grotesque is a human that is crushed and pulled out of the womb. Sadly there are millions of those photos and even sadder is that we call the death a choice. There has to be a better way to help women than to help them by killing their offspring. Apparently no one gives a darn enough to make death a NON option for women's babies. BTW, I get your point about the deformed infants or those who might not be born whole. Perhaps death is better for them. It does irk me if abortion is used as a form of birth control. There are many choices prior to abortion that were missed. I keep hoping humans can figure out a better way.

[GreenEyedLefty]

21. "It does irk me if abortion is used as a form of birth control."

If abortion is not a form of birth control already, then what is it?

There is something dangerous about conferring full human rights on the unborn. If that were the case, there are 2 people with full human rights occupying the same body and one person's rights do not trump the other's. So, basically, the mother is nothing more than a means to an end, nothing more than a brood mare. I have a real problem with a non-sentient being with the *potential* to be a human being having that kind of power over me, or my daughters.

I am 100% pro-choice in ALL cases and want my daughters to have the same rights. Abortion is not great and wonderful but as long as it's perceived to be needed by anyone, then it should be safe and legal, ALWAYS.

[uppityperson]

22. I almost just answered but took time to check and am glad you are TS'd

[GreenEyedLefty]

23. I should have checked...I hate it when I waste my breath.

Alas... but I'm glad s/he's TS'd, too.

[Magnifica]

18. That's why we need Obama to win

So he can appoint just judges, in case Stevens passes away.

[AuH2O1776]

24. I agree

I am a member of freep and I have come here for some civil debate with liberals, however I do not let my pro-choice views be known there. I am a self-described Independent Neo-Libertarian. Youre right that social conservatives are wrong about this issue and it reveals just how little they know.