Women have had abortions forever. CHOICE to me is being able to get safe, legal one.

[uppityperson]

Making abortions illegal will not stop them from happening. People will go underground again, or to other countries, or find providers that will do an abortion if you have enough money or connections. Keeping them legal and safe is important, regardless of how you feel about whether or not you would get one or about any morality associated. To me, CHOICE is having the choice to get a safe, legal abortion, not a back alley or expensive or unsafe one. Keep them safe.

[shraby]

1. Women have a right to a doctor and a hospital

if abortion is what she decides, and as you have stated, abortions have been with us since forever. Outlawing them won't stop them, it will just cause women to die needlessly.

[yella_dawg]

2. I'm old enough to remember a time before Roe v Wade

I have only one position on abortion rights, and it arises from the horror of those times.

Anyone who opposes safe, legal abortion is evil. Period.

Whether you approve of abortion under some circumstances or not, returning to the vile and hideous situation that existed prior to Roe v Wade cannot be justified.

If you oppose abortion, don't have one.

[uppityperson]

3. Me too and I agree. If you oppose abortion, don't have one.

But don't doom my children to death by making them unsafe again.

[Kool Kitty]

5. Hear, hear!

:applause:

[Warpy]

6. I lost a friend to an illegal abortion in 1968

She died of septic shock. She never did say whether she did it herself or went to a butcher.

It was not a nice way to die. Yet she risked it to rid herself of an unwanted pregnancy.

The bottom line is that antiabortion laws kill women.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[Lars39]

10. I really don't feel like being polite today.

Just fuck off.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

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[iverglas]

14. I'll take hatred over lies most days

Why the lies? Can't persuade people without 'em? There'll always be some you can persuade with 'em, I suppose. Did you expect to find a lot here?

Perhaps some of our anti-choice sistren hereabouts will chide you for your vexatious contribution to their cause.

Haha.

[iverglas]

13. you know, you might almost have pulled it off

if you'd stuck to being viciously dishonest in this particular forum alone. Sadly, that short of shit seems to pass as "progressive" hereabouts.


Abortion not safe
Posted by Culture Warrior
While legal, abortion is not safe. First, it's never safe for the baby, as the baby always dies. Second, for pregnant women, abortion is four times deadlier than childbirth, and often results in infertility and breast cancer - commonly referred to as the ABC link. 11 of 12 studies of American women reported an increased risk of breast cancer after having an induced abortion.

There might actually be someone somewhere who believes that lie about the deadliness of abortion (or pretends to) who would like to play with you -- or who has never heard the rest of this crap before and you can feed it to. You should go see whether you can find some. You'll recognize the first group by the horns and tails barely concealed by their dime-store halos, and the second by the drool on their chins, I imagine.

Meanwhile, the rest of us can update ourselves:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/555665

Breast Cancer Risk Not Affected by Abortion or Miscarriage

April 25, 2007 — Although a full-term pregnancy before the age of 35 years reduces the life-time risk for breast cancer, it appears that prematurely terminated pregnancies — whether by miscarriage or abortion — do not influence the risk for breast cancer. This conclusion, reported in a study published in the April 23 issue of the Archives of Internal Medicine, comes from an analysis of data from the Nurses Health Study II (NHSII).

The report is careful to point out possible weaknesses in the data.

The remaining point, of course, is that any increase in the risk of breast cancer associated with abortion is so minuscule -- keep in mind that, using numbers picked out of a hat, the risk could quadruple, and if were only 1/100,000 to start with it would still be tiny -- that no decent, sensible person would even consider telling a women that it should obviate all of the serious reasons she has for wishing to terminate a pregnancy.

[samplegirl]

4. Bill Maher made a point

that 98% of all women who found out that their child would be born with down syndrome aborted.
Now either there are a ton of Liberals...who produce Down Syndrome babies or the Republican women are saying abortion is
ok this time.
You are right and women will find a way of having an abortion.
Many unsafe and a rise in deaths.

[supernova]

7. AMEN, Sister!

:applause: :applause: :applause:

That is my position absolutely.

I sincerely don't understand these morons, and that's what they are, who think outlawing abortion is going to stop desperate women from trying to get them. Abortion is as old as the hills. It's not a modern invention at all.

Here's a nice history at Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_abortion


Abortion must remain legal so that it can remain safe.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

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[AngryOldDem]

15. I guess because it's so simple, it's so hard for most to understand

You sum up the pro-choice argument nicely. It's precisely my view -- abortion must remain legal to remain safe. It's that simple. I am constantly amazed and angered at the thought that if it were to become illegal, it would just disappear -- well, I guess it would, but it would "disappear" into a lot of back alleys and bathrooms with coat hangers. NO WAY.

(This is my first post on this forum, but I've been exposed to a lot of "pro-life" -- I always put that phrase in quotes -- bullshit recently and this place is giving me a breath of fresh air and sanity.)

[rebecca_herman]

16. Actually most anti-abortion people I've heard...

think the woman deserves to die from an unsafe abortion for comitting the sin of murder. *rolls eyes*
they don't think it would disappear they think the woman deserves what will happen if its illegal
they are hard to understand :-/

[AngryOldDem]

17. Unbelievably, some do have such a narrow view of the world.

If it's illegal, it will go away.

Did I mention that black-and-white-with-no-shades-of-gray thinking also sets me off?

[supernova]

18. "think the woman deserves to die from an unsafe abortion "

Yes, I agree with you.

And I will add that they enjoy punishing women for having sex. Abortions are reminders that we are sexual beings and sometimes, pregnancy isn't a good idea for that that woman at that time. But in their twisted minds, forced-birthers like to to assume that she must have been bad, Bad, BAD!! and must pay for her sins with her life!

It's so sick, that "thinking."

:puke:

[Nobody]

19. Pro-birth is right, they're not pro-life at all

If they were, they'd be knocking themselves out to make sure everyone can have access to health care and lobbying tirelessly to make insurance companies pay for the services they are supposed to instead of denying legitimate claims.

You're right about it being about punishing women.

It doesn't matter what the issue is, if it involves someone else making a personal choice for you, they will almost always choose the path to the most misery, and at the same time they agitate for laws that make it harder to live the way they would force you to.

The person whose uterus it is gets to decide. Whether the contents of my uterus stays there or not is not up for a referendum, and that is true whether the contents are fibroids, a fetus, or a tumor. In some cases there isn't anything at all in the uterus, but an ectopic pregnancy forming the the fallopian tube. Guess what, ya gotta abort. It will kill the woman and the embryo is not viable and has zero chance of lasting out the pregnancy.

If some pro-birther wants me to give birth, are they going to help me pay the bills for the monthly checkups?

What if I need a caesarean and my insurance denies the claim? Will they help with the bills? Will they throw me a baby shower sending gifts from all their pro-birth buddies so I can have a reasonable supply of diapers and baby clothes? They wanted the kid so bad, they can help out.

You don't get to make personal decisions for others and then walk away without looking back. Too bad there isn't a good way to make them face up to the responsibility of their choices for you.