My wife is pro-life

[D-Sooner]

I’m in kind of an odd situation, politically speaking. I’m what you might call a conservative Democrat (yeah, in my short stay I’ve already found out that makes me unpopular in these here forums), but I’ve always been staunchly pro-choice. Personally, I want every baby to be wanted and planned, and I hope and pray that choice will lead to more babies born to married parents and less to single mothers.

The thing is, I married a very smart, talented, beautiful Republican. We never really talked about politics much until this election cycle started up. Now, we agree on a lot of things politically, but abortion rights ain’t one of ‘em. She won’t vote for any candidate who’s pro-choice, even though she’s a pacifist who wants universal health care.

We’ve debated this issue a couple times, and the last time it caused such a funk between us that we agreed to drop it altogether. Now when we watch the debates, it’s kind of that elephant in the room that we tip-toe around. It doesn't make me resent her in any way--it just bothers me that it seems to be the one thing under the sun that we can't talk about with each other.

I’m one of those guys who, rightly or wrongly, usually shies away from discussing abortion morals with women, because it makes me feel like a drunken baseball fan giving advice to a starting pitcher. So I guess my question is, should I broach this subject with my wife? If so, how should I approach it? Or should I just leave it alone?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. Is your wife in favor of in-vitro or not? nt

[D-Sooner]

17. She's against it (nt)

[Sarah Ibarruri]

21. Wow, she must be a Catholic then. nt

[DemBones DemBones]

26. Catholics are not the only people

who oppose abortion and IVF. Not all Catholics follow the Church's teachings, either. Get a smaller brush, please. :hippie:

[classykaren]

39. Pro life and a good democrate

[Scout]

40. what is a "democrate" ?

and who is anti-choice? anti-choice does not equal good democrat!

[musette_sf]

41. you are only a "good democrate" (sic)

if you support all women's Constitutional right to privacy in healthcare choices, regardless of your personal stance. i surely hope you did not mean that you do not support right to choice.

[kikiek]

55. According to who?

[saracat]

2. Leave it alone.But I have got to say , as a woman, I have no respect for her.

unless of course she has some limitations on her opposition? What about for the life of the mother? Rape? Incest?If the fetus is defective , or won't live/ Does she have any exceptions?

[D-Sooner]

18. As far as I can tell,

she is for exceptions for the life of the mother, rape, and incest.

[saracat]

22. Hey, then there is hope for her.She is actually really pro-choice!

Safe, legal and rare would fit her!

[maui9002]

45. Isn't that part of the problem?

That is, that many are labeled either pro-choice or pro-life, when in fact most people have more nuanced positions on the issue? For the most part, I'm pro-choice, because I don't like the idea of the government meddling in the most private of family issues. But I'm also someone who thinks a fetus is more than a body part and that abortion shouldn't be treated the same as the removal of someone's tonsils. Put those two positions together, and I believe that puts me in the safe, legal, and rare camp. I also think that if proponents of both sides of the issue, those who regard themselves as pro-life and those who regard themselves as pro-choice, were a bit more tolerant and understanding of the other side's viewpoint, we'd be in a better position to adopt a more rationale approach to abortion and ultimately to protect a women's right to make a fundamentally private decision.

[musette_sf]

46. what kind of "nuance" is there

between forced birth, and Constitutional right to privacy in reproductive health care decisions?

it's yes/no, black/white, on/off, 0/1.

you either respect someone's right to privacy, or you don't. there is no "nuance".

[Ashford Dunwoody]

49. Women and children first

I say leave it alone. If she can't agree with you then drop it. As a gay person this is probably the only place I depart from the democratic party. My mother nearly died giving birth to me. Wonder what would have happened if she had had a doctor encouraging her to "let me go" so she wouldn't have chose between her own life and mine. She almost didn't make it...if it were this day and time, I probably wouldn't have made it.

thanks mom. I love you.

[griffi94]

i hate to quote bumper stickers at you

but really if your wife is against abortion...then she shouldn't have one

[baldguy]

3. If she voted for this

and this



and this



she's not pro-life.

[Middle finga]

11. Exactly we need to strip the Right of that title.

I just haven't figured how the left allowed the right to claim pro-life when they're pro-war, pro-death penalty and pro-guns.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

4. Well...

If you try to look at it from her point of view, she takes a logical and very consistent stance from prebirth to grave, especially if she is against the death penalty.
Can you not admire that in her?

You can try to convince her to vote for a democratic candidate if she realizes that the repubs aren't really going to do anything much to change abortion, anyway. (Yes, I believe that.) I think they are going to make a lot of noise, and maybe chip away at things like late term abortion -which, quite honestly, I have problems with, but otherwise, I just don't see abortion rights going away. It's not going away in the rest of the industrialized world, and it's not going away here.

It could be worse, you know. YOU could be "pro-life" and she could be "pro-choice" and you could really get in some serious arguments, then! :)

[iverglas]

16. it's interesting

I've been reading your very determined and repeated objections to universal single public payer healthcare because it takes away freeeeeedom, and here I find you spouting the bogus seamless garment of life line ... some fine talking points.

If you try to look at it from her point of view, she takes a logical and very consistent stance from prebirth to grave, especially if she is against the death penalty.
Can you not admire that in her?

Nope. That garment is stitched together from rags, with sleeves sticking out of the neck and the collar around the bum.

In order to produce it, you have to stitch a seam between "prebirth" and the life of a human being, and then it just ain't seamless anymore.

It surely does make for some good misogynist rhetoric though, eh?

[D-Sooner]

19. Sure, I admire her

The fact that she's pro-life doesn't make me think any less of her. The thing that bothers me is that it's become an off-limits topic.

Maybe that's the way I need to approach it, with the vocabulary of admiration.

[stillcool]

5. I believe that those who object...

to woman having abortions see the issue as cute little babies, and a woman who cares more about herself than 'innocent life'. The problem is that they do not go to orphanages, or see the homes that provide 'foster-care'. They do not see the prisons that are full of the results of abused and neglected children. They can not imagine the lives of those with no sense of identity, no roots, no family to call their own. They do not see how their self-righteous opinions cause so very much pain and suffering.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

10. I couldn't have said it better

Most everyone who is pro birth is not pro takin care of them AFTER they are born.

[bronxiteforever]

6. She doesn't exist

I can't name any Republican who is a pacifist and wants universal health care-can anyone name a Republican in office who supports these positions?

[Hydra]

7. As others pointed out

"Pro-Life" is a misnomer. It's more like "Limiting Medical options", which is why the Pubs like it. They like anything that allows them to take away things you need or things that would give you an advantage.

Let's look at what pro-lifers actually do:

-Many of them are highly religious, and therefore oppose birth control in any form. Our orphanages are filled to the brim already, and foster homes are often abusive. If the couple(or single) tries to stick it out, the child often has to live in poverty or is abused.

-Pro-lifers are opposing stem cell research which could lead to cures for many chronic conditions. Many people are suffering or dying because of their interference.

-When legal abortion is not available, many women use the not legal option, which is highly dangerous, and requires them to deal with people on the wrong side of the law.

-Many of the Pro-lifers are supporting terrorism against doctors and supporters of abortion. In many areas of the country, these crimes are not being prosecuted, and the victims not protected.

As you can see, they are causing a considerable amount of collateral damage. I'm in favor of safe, easy, affordable and perfect birth control, with abortion as an option.

[Ilsa]

44. For some of them, if you reveal you are pro-choice, they sweep you

into a camp of "the enemy" because this issue is the only one they care about. And they have no other sympathy for any other conditions you may be faced with (a sick child, or financial ruin related to medical bills, etc). How do I know this? I've experienced it on a local message board.

"Many of the Pro-lifers are supporting terrorism against doctors and supporters of abortion" These are some of the ugliest "humans" I've ever met.

[tularetom]

8. Please don't use the expression pro life

Unless your wife also opposes the death penalty and the killing of American soldiers and Iraqi civilians in bush's attempt to appear manly. Sounds to me like she may anti abortion - she may also be pro life but not if she supports some of the pub policies.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

14. Exactly. A better term would be anti-table-abortion nt

[Iris]

25. or anti-abortion rights.

Because we all know, abortions have always happened and will always happen no matter what the law is.

[minnesota_liberal]

9. I wouldn't force the issue, but the next time it comes up ...

I'd just explain that I believe in a woman's right to control her own body and feel so strongly about that right than I value it above the "rights" of a non-viable embryo/fetus. I would also be prepared to acknowledge that different people have different views about when life begins and what protections should be afforded a "being" that cannot fend for itself.

If the topic wasn't important enough that it came up for discussion before marriage, hopefully it doesn't become so important that it causes a major rift later on. It's a good sign that you both could agree to drop the issue.

Good luck to you.

[D-Sooner]

20. Thanks minnesota_liberal

:)

[saracat]

12. It also sounds like she is less pacificist than she is ant-abortion if she is still Republican.

Embryos and the preborn must mean more to her than soldiers and children who are already born.

[terisan]

13. Interesting. I think of abortion decisions as 2 overlapping areas-legal and moral.

I don't use the term pro-life because I find it can mislead.

The legal issue is whether or not abortion should be legal or illegal, or to what extent the government or law should be involved in decisions about abortion,

One aspect of moral issue is whether or not abortion in general or in a particular instance is a positive or negative thing to do.

I think not enough attention is being paid to another issue---personal responsibility for own eggs and ones own sperm. Would many men take more responsibility for birth control if child support was more certain and required a specific immediate award to a newborn of perhaps $100,000 ? (a reasonable sum for the first 18 years of life). Would fewer women choose abortion if this were the case?

[LiberalFighter]

15. If she believes in pro-life then it is okay for others to tell her what to do with her body

If her life is in danger while she is pregnant her wishes and her life is immaterial. The government doesn't need her consent to make sure the baby is saved. Consent of either or both parents is not required under the pro-life position.

If we go to the doctor with a medical problem requiring surgery it requires the patient or parent to approve the procedure. They have eliminated that requirement in those states. What other procedures will be forced on people without their consent?

[bjorkfan]

30. Killing a rapist

Related to the autonomy over her body, one could argue that a rape victim has the right to kill her rapist (after the fact, not self-defense) on the same grounds that a woman owns her own body, and the rapist is an intruder. Certainly, if she got pregnant and chose abortion, he bears the responsibility for compelling the pregnancy on her and the abortion.

[WildClarySage]

31. Only if you completely buy into the Fetus as Personhood

fallacy.

Even if it is a person- Why is pregnancy the only condition that the anti-choicers would compel a person to put their lives at risk for the benefit of another? Because only women get pregnant, and anti-choicers hate women having autonomy over their sexuality/bodies.

Rapists are nearly universally (please, before flaming, note the "nearly") men, and therefore women would never get a pass on murdering one.

That argument is a bit silly anyway. Should I have the right to kill a robber who broke into my house and stole my TV, a few days later? Certainly rape is a more heinous crime, and certainly our justice system is fatally flawed, but it is the accepted social standard response to criminal acts. Acting outside that system is generally itself a criminal act.

[Warpy]

23. Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree

especially with an intimate partner. The debate has become so polarized that I doubt either one of you will budge in the foreseeable future.

My mother the socialist and my dad the right winger agreed to disagree and happily canceled each others votes for decades. They were reasonably well suited except when it came to politics.

The best thing you can do is let her stew. My dad finally came around and voted for Kerry in 2004, fourteen months before his death. Life experience might bring your wife around, too, and that's the only thing that will.

[Iris]

24. Does she consider that universal healthcare might prevent some abortions?

And maybe even miscarriages and stillbirths?

And that endless wars kill the born and unborn?

I just don't see how anyone who claims to be pro-life can vote for people who don't believe in helping other people and think war is a good solution to any problem. I just don't get it.

I feel for you. It would be hard for me to live with someone like that.

[DemBones DemBones]

27. Just let it be if discussions cause problems.

Since you're pro-choice, respect her choice on this issue. She's said she favors exceptions for the life of the mother, rape, and incest, so you can assume she won't die in pregnancy because she refused care.

As time goes by, perhaps you can discuss it without it turning into an argument.
Sometimes, though, you have to agree to disagree in marriage as in any relationship. Some couples discuss politics sometimes but never ask each other how s/he voted. Seems strange to me but it works for them. All that matters is what works for you.

[iverglas]

28. the sophistry of the anti-choice

Since you're pro-choice, respect her choice on this issue.

It knows no bounds ...

Not to mention the hypocritical self-righteousness.

The anti-choice refuse to respect women's choices on the issue of their own pregnancies, but are happy to stand up in public and tell the pro-choice that because they are pro-choice on the issue of women's right to make choices respecting their own pregnancies, they must respect the anti-choice choice to refuse to respect women's choices on the issue of their own pregnancies ...

Makes yer brain hurt, don't it?

[musette_sf]

29. owwwwww

yes it does make my brain hurt.

there is no ends to which the forced birthers will not go to defend their "rights" to invade the privacy of others, and to not mind their own business.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lightningandsnow]

32. "Single Mothers"? "Married Parents"?

I know I'm digressing a bit, but....

Some people are single parents by choice. It doesn't make them worse parents - I know many children of single parents who are more well adjusted than some that come from heterosexual, married parents.

And what about common-law, or same-sex partners? Should they not have children?

I know this is a cliche, but I think it's love that makes a family, not the structure of it.

[Kool Kitty]

33. It is love that makes a family.

Very well said.

[HockeyMom]

35. my cousin

was raised by his Mom and her partner back in the 1950s. As a child, I used to dream of running away to live with them. My cousin had a much better life with his lesbian Mom and her partner than I did with two straight married parents who were always at each other throats, literally.

You are correct. A LOVING stable home is what makes the best family for a child.

[Buzz cook]

34. I don't know how many times it has to be said

The greater access women have to reproductive health care, including abortion, the few abortions are preformed. The nations where access to reproductive including abortion is limited have higher abortion rates.

If someone wants to make abortion illegal they are effectively pro-abortion.

[dapoopta2]

36. women will be women

let this fight die. It isn't worth it. You will prob end up divorced :-)

[Quantess]

37. I vote for avoiding the topic.

Don't engage the topic unless you want to start a fight. The topic of abortion is a philosophical one for both of you, since abortion is not a likely possibility for her. I presume that if she gets pregnant you will both embrace parenthood together. End of story. No reason to talk about abortion.

[LibertarianAtheist]

38. You're pro-choice, let her choose her position

There is a very slim possibility that her personal opinion on a woman's right to choose will actually have an impact on any life. You believe what you believe, it doesn't sound like she's imploring you to view the issue solely from her perspective, so if you and your wife discuss it, explain your point of view but understand she's choosing another side of the issue. Don't let it get you into a funk.

and to the assholes who posted pictures of dismembered Iraqi children, and pretty much attacked his wife, you need therapy.

[Quantess]

43. ....Here lies a disruptor...

[WillyT]

42. That's Really Nice...

:smoke:

[lips]

47. 2 cents.

I think that it's safe to say that the decision of a pregnant woman and (to distinguish from rape, abandonment, etc.) to choose abortion or adoption could be said, given the current state of each process, to be 'six in one, half-dozen in the other'.

The children of this nation are well taken care of, aren't they..

[Panchojackson]

50. Im' pro-life only in the second and third tri-mester

because that is when the baby develops the ability to feel pain.

[kikiek]

57. Thanks for visiting. We needed a reminder of what we're fighting for this election. You did it, hero

[gorenobel]

51. It's more complicated than pro-choice and pro-life

I for one, am in favor of abortion only during the late months of pregnancy, as it is during this time that the fetus can feel pain.
I just refuse to see a living creature feeling pain.

[uppityperson]

52. What. The. Fuck? Search is interesting.

[kikiek]

So lame it is laughable. Hey everyone. Remember this. Support our Democratic Nominee!

[Iris]

59. Then what are we gonna do about that birthing problem?

The mother, a living creature, feels pain during childbirth. And, guess what? SO DOES THE CHILD!!!!!

[uppityperson]

61. Kill them! kill them both!

This is a reincarnation of #50. My reply is sarcasm

[Iris]

62. I know.

I busted out laughing as soon as I saw your subject line!

rich!

[kikiek]

53. Fine your wife can be what she wants to choose for herself. She can't choose for others.

[uppityperson]

54. look up 2 posts

[kikiek]

56. A flurry of simple minds.

[uppityperson]

58. Ah, missed

the one up before that, the one you already got. Seems that if a person were to go to the extent of re-registering, they'd post something different?

[kikiek]

60. I get the feeling it is a group effort. Nothing will drive the base back faster. I thank them.