Didn't find a thread on sex-selective abortion so what are your views on that issue?

[jody]

There are infrequent articles on the effect on society such as in China and India where it may be called "female infanticide" but I haven't find one that discusses the possible effects in the U.S.

[theoldman]

1. The same as in Asia.

Kill off more girls and you have less women for men to marry. If you kill approximately the same number of each sex there is no marriage problem.

[CTyankee]

2. Looks like Sweden just oked it.

I thought I just saw something on it. Can't recall where...

[Hoopla Phil]

3. I believe it is the WOMAN'S choice.

[Crunchy Frog]

30. How about a woman being subjected to overwhelming pressure

from her husband or inlaws. This is very often the scenario in China and India. How much choice is really involved in these situations?

[Fresh_Start]

4. stupid in the long run

should be banned unless there is a gender linked disease

[moez]

6. Why should it be banned?

Why should you decide what ball of cells a woman carries to term?

[Fresh_Start]

7. because its another form of discrimination

is why

[CTyankee]

8. But if they are not born? Are you granting rights against discrimination to

to something that is not a person under the Constitution?

[Fresh_Start]

9. so its okay to prevent the existence

of whatever people think are less valuable humans?

[CTyankee]

10. What are you going to do with a woman's right to choose what is in

her uterus?

If she doesn't want to give birth, you have a situation where it is the state against a woman's body. Does the state have a right to tell you that you may not do what you want with your body?

That is really the issue. Not the sex of the fetus issue. It is also an issue of how far along the pregnancy has gone.

[Fresh_Start]

11. I'm not disagreeing with choice

but choice isn't about 'its okay to have a boy baby' but 'girl babies aren't worth having'.
That's not choice, that is discrimination.

Choice is "I can't have a child right now".

[Scout]

12. "Choice is "I can't have a child right now"."

choice is "i choose to terminate my pregnancy, for whatever goddamn reason i fucking choose to do so, and it's no one else's freaking business so get your big fat nosy nose out of my uterus"

maybe i don't want to bring a girl into this fucked up patriarchal world, maybe i don't want to do that to a boy either, maybe i don't want to have a child who is doomed to struggle with their weight all their life like i did, or maybe i just don't want to be pregnant and my birth control failed....

dead is dead, and a fetus is just as dead if it was terminated for gender, as if for any other reason.

'nuff said

:mad:
:grr:

[uppityperson]

34. Yay Scout!

[Azalea]

23. ummm

Why are you limiting choice?

[iverglas]

18. sigh

If I have a choice of an apple and an orange for my snack, and I choose the apple, I guess I've discriminated against the orange. Or maybe the apple, if getting et by me wasn't what the apple would have chosen.

I have cats for pets, so I guess I discriminate against dogs and budgies and iguanas.


"Discrimination" is a concept that applies to human beings. Nothing else.

A policy of terminating particular fetuses, or a widespread cultural practice of doing so, may well reflect discrimination practised against members of the society or culture that have the characteristics in question. It could also have negative consequences for the society or culture, and certainly for individuals coerced into following the policy or practice.

But discrimination, it ain't.

[Crunchy Frog]

31. It's generally not a "ball of cells" by that point.

Sex usually doesn't show up on ultrasound until the fetus is approaching viability.

[damntexdem]

5. It IS an issue in China, where births are imbalanced male, exacerbated by the 1 child policy.

It can be in India.

Is it an issue in the U.S.? I don't see that it is.

[fnofsports]

13. Its all eugenics to me

And as an aspie it scares the hell out of me. 3% of abortions every year are done for the purposes of eugenics (roughly), including a lot with milder disabilities (spina bifida and the like). Then you have people out there like Hillary Clinton saying that eugenics abortions should be allowed in the 3rd trimester... after the fetus is viable... it just scares the hell out of me as an aspie, which I am sure not many in here would get. And if that sortof eugenics scares the hell out of me, so does sex choice eugenics, especcially if its the husband making the wife get an abortion to abort a certain sex (don't tell me it never would happen).

[uppityperson]

14. Was going to ask for proof but you are TS'd so never mind

[joshcryer]

19. Essentially impossible to find such a stat, if it exists, too many anti-abortion sites use it as...

...a talking point. I see numbers everywhere from 20% to 73%.

[Believing Is Art]

15. I doubt there would be significant effects from it in the US

It's a pretty shitty reason to get an abortion though. If parent(s) are so concerned about the child's gender in this society, they're probably not mature enough to be parents in the first place.

[kestrel91316]

16. Why some people may use sex selection for SEXIST reasons,

it is also a valuable tool in avoiding certain sex-linked genetic conditions, if I'm not mistaken. I think it's just fine if done for medical reasons. If it's done just because somebody hates one gender or the other, well, perhaps that's better than an unwanted, hated child being born into abuse?

[iverglas]

17. it's also better

than a woman without the economic or social or personal resources to defend herself against abuse being forced to bear a child of the "wrong" sex and suffering the abusive consequences - economic, social, physical, psychological - that she might then suffer at the hands of her partner, family or community.

Sex-selection abortions, to eliminate female fetuses, are a reflection of women's subordinate status in the family or community or society where it is practised.

Prohibiting such practices isn't actually going to put an end to that situation, or help the women who are victims of it in various other ways as well.

Many woman coerced into submitting to such abortions would undoubtedly prefer not to terminate their pregnancies. Forcing them to continue those pregnancies just isn't going to solve their problems.

[Azalea]

20. Choice is CHOICE

Just because YOU don't like the idea of the poor weetle girl fetuses being aborted doesn't make it WRONG!!! If its a choice when you don't even kno the gender, its a choice afterwards! More fetuses will be girls anyway, girls outnumber boys overall at birth. Even if the WOMAN decides she doesn't want another female in her home so she aborts her female fetus its ok, its her right. It' a woman's choice, her decision, her body, her life.

Infanticide only applies to infants and abortion only occurs on fetuses. So sex-selection and infanticide are mutually exclusive.

[iverglas]

21. you seem to be an expert on everything

More fetuses will be girls anyway, girls outnumber boys overall at birth.

Uh, no.

It's always entertaining to encounter someone who self-declares as "pro-choice" and then goes on to speak in the tongue of the virulently anti-choice. I find.

[Azalea]

22. So..

How exactly is supporting CHOICE for sex selection anti-choice again??? Please explain yourself and why you are in other people's uteruses and reprductive decisions just because you don't like it??? Only a woman can get an abortion so if its her choice not to have girls then get over it! If she chooses not to have boys get over it!!!!

[iverglas]

24. excuse me

Please explain yourself and why you are in other people's uteruses and reprductive decisions just because you don't like it???

What the fuck are you talking about, and why are you doing it at me?

Kindly read the thread, and show a modicum of respect to your interlocutors, me in particular. The thread isn't long, and it really shouldn't be difficult to determine what I have actually said. And then retract everything directed at me in this vile post of yours.

[Azalea]

25. Your response to me is why!!!

iverglas (1000+ posts) Tue Jul-14-09 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. you seem to be an expert on everything

More fetuses will be girls anyway, girls outnumber boys overall at birth.

Uh, no.

It's always entertaining to encounter someone who self-declares as "pro-choice" and then goes on to speak in the tongue of the virulently anti-choice. I find.



The above is a response to me saying that more fetuses will be girls anyway, girls outnumber boys overall at birth and then you call me anti-choice for supporting a woman's right to choose which gender she will give birth to. As hard as it is for some to believe, there are plenty of women who do not want daughters for medical reasons or otherwise they want sons instead and its THEIR choice not yours or anyone else's no matter how uncomfortable it makes you. Women outnumber men in every part of the world except in China where sex selection and the one child rule has comepletely done away with nature. EVERY egg carries an X chromosome and most sperm carry X therefore XX is the most likely result which means AT BIRTH the baby is a Girl. Because miscarriages occur and sex selection abortions do happen the gap between male and female babies at birth isn't big by ratio alone by girl babies outnumber boy babies by hundreds of thousands if not millions.

[iverglas]

26. actually, no

The above is a response to me saying that ...

It was a response to your behaviour in this forum since your arrival.

And please do check your facts, as compared to your nonsense:

girl babies outnumber boy babies by hundreds of thousands if not millions.

The sex ratio at birth is commonly considered to be about 105 or 107 male to 100 female. And was, long before sex-selection abortion came on the scene. Women outnumber men in populations because women have longer life expectancies (at every age).

EVERY egg carries an X chromosome and most sperm carry X therefore XX is the most likely result which means AT BIRTH the baby is a Girl.

Good grief. Do they have schools where you are?


I suggest again that you read my very brief previous contributions to this thread and stop ranting on at me about sex-selection abortions when I have expressly said it would be unwise in most circumstances to attempt to prohibit them, and stated my reasons for that opinion.

[Azalea]

27. If

You aren't anti-choice what's the purpose for the exchange? Either its ok to have sex-selection or it isn't, period. It's a woman's choice and her's alone.

[iverglas]

28. and if

you are pro-choice, why have we not heard a hint of concern in your voice about sex-selection abortions that women are coerced into submitting to?

My position, as I'm sure you have still not bothered reading, is that prohibiting the procedure would not benefit the women subjected to that coercion.

The fact remains that coercion and a whole range of pressure, ranging from direct within the family to diffuse within the broader society, as well as very real economic factors (like the absence of social security programs), are much more relevant factors in the phenomenon of sex-selection abortion than "choice" conditioned only be some personal preference or by genuine (e.g. genetic disease) concerns.

People who actually are pro-choice do not generally dismiss these phenomena as unworthy of discussion.



typo fixed

[Azalea]

29. I'm not general

This isn't dimissed but why is the focus on coercion when it comes to sex selection but on choice when it comes to abortion for all other reasons?

No one will ever know who is or is not coerced into choosing males over females or females over males. Nobody should be forced into having daughters if she only wants to bear sons. Neither should be forced to bear sons if she only wants daughters. The gender of a fetus in her uterus is up to her.


I think many a mistress was coerced into getting an abortion, many a woman who was abused by the child's father was coerced into getting an abortion. A woman has the highest chance of being a victim of domestic abuse in the US during pregnancy at a time when almost half of all children born in this country are born to unwed parents. What about the woman who WANTS children but can't get paid maternity leave or is under contract and may lose her position upon labor and delivery? What about the discrimination against young women as being a possible liability if she chooses to use her uterus for bearing a child in the workplace? Or about how there is pressur eot be a stay at home? Or how being a pregnant student is frowned upon? Or about how there are places you can go to get a free abortion but if you give birth you have to pay top dollar? If those aren't coercive they are certainly putting on the pressure to have an abortion.

BUT, these things in NO way EVER should trump or invalidate the fact that many women CHOOSE abortion for themselves because with or without considering these things, they know abortion is right for them. Even if she regrets her abortion she doesn't speak or reflect the experience of all or most women. We are strong and mature and responsible and capable of making decisions of our own free will. At least I like to think so.

SO yes, those things DO matter but no there are not merely as important as ensuring the right to safe legal abortions for ANY reason(s) is protected.

[Crunchy Frog]

32. Incorrect. Males slightly outnumber females prenatally and at birth.

(This is in the absence of any artificial tampering.) Male babies are at a higher risk of dying than female, so the numbers eventually equalize.

[musical_soul]

33. I think it's wrong. However.....

I think it's hard to judge without being in these people's shoes.

India has a problem with having to have dowries to marry your daughter off. You can't help
your daughter get a job so much like you can here. So suppose you have three daughters and another
on the way. The family can't afford but so much.

However, if you have a boy, he gets a dowry before marriage. Furthermore, he can support himself.


Now, China is in better shape than it used to be oddly enough thanks to Mr. Mass Murderer Mao in China. He helped
to raise the moral of women by saying they held up half of the sky. He helped to increase their ability to work in
the workforce, making them less dependent on men to survive.

Now, the elderly supposedly still rely on their sons and their daughter-in-laws (not daughters) to take
care of them. This can be a problem if you're only having daughters in young age.

So sex selective abortion is wrong, but I'm having a hard time judging at times. HOWEVER, it is NEVER okay to
kill a child after birth (or even during the third trimester without medical cause in my opinion).

[Jax]

35. what are YOUR views jody.

You started this thread,

Tell us YOUR views on this.

Alyce