my son's charter public school:

[mzteris]

from the board of directors (all local people who oversee this non-profit!)

"this year *** met the Academic Yearly Progress goals established by the federal government. We were removed from the list of "schools in need for improvement." In fact, in many areas *** students achieved "at or above the district average." (Note: we've been in operation for 6 years now, it is an immersion program that doesn't even begin to "teach English literacy" until 3rd grade so meeting those AYP's are - um - challenging for lower grades.)

This is particularly impressive considering that the percentage of our non-English speaking population is the greatest of any school in the district, we have a growing population in poverty (now over 50%) and all of our African American fifth graders scored proficient or advanced for three consecutive years of WKCE testing, a result that no other (**** district) school has yet to achieve.

We realize we have more academic challenges and goals to achieve but feel confident that we are on the right course to realize our high expectations . . . the "**our school** effect" continues to grow. Next year a new middle school program begins at XYZ along with the addition of 3 more new programs at other ***district elementary schools. The movement is spreading!

Nine years ago, the idea for *** sprang from a small group of community members who desired a different opportunity for our children. With your faith, determination, and efforts we are achieving a wonderful change and exciting option in our schools and our children's futures... "



FYI - we share a building with another elementary school - we share the same demographics. The students in that school zone get priority and make up nearly all of the lower grades. As a fifth grader - the first group to graduate from this school - there are a few "out of zone" kids, but overall - the demographics and the neighborhoods are the very same. The only thing that is different is the "schooling". Our kids consistently outperform the kids in the traditional school in ALL areas. One really does have to ask why that is so.

So - we move to the district run middle school program. I hope they are up to the challenge of meeting the needs of these kids. I would hate to think that all of their efforts to progress might be stymied and wasted. I know the district is very anxious that this (their) program succeed as it will be the blueprint for the middle school (and ultimately highschool) programs they want to implement around the district. As you can see, they will be starting three new elementary school programs based on OUR CHARTER model (they've already started two others).

[elleng]

1. Congratulations!

And best of luck to your son, for his future!

[NYC_SKP]

2. Thanks for the good news. A great many myths exist about public charter schools.

I've given up trying to argue, I just know what they're like in my state, and I understand that in many other states they are truly public, staffed by union teachers employed by the district or county, and often do well.

Your school is one of thousands of cases that blow the myths out of the water.

I hope the middle schools work as well as this elementary.

Since the WKCE tests are in Wisconsin, I took the liberty of using Google to find an example of a public charter school, and am posting a link so that others can become more informed:

:hi:

http://www.neenah.k12.wi.us/ace/faqs

From their FAQ page:

What is a charter school anyway?

A charter school is a public school that has received approval from the State Department of Public Instruction and the local district to teach children using a different approach than the traditional classroom that most of us grew up with. Research over the past 20 years has shown us what parents already knew: Each child has different strengths, and each learns differently. Dr. Howard Gardner and others have written about Multiple Intelligences. It is believed that these different strengths may not always be valued in a traditional classroom. The state and federal governments have decided to allow the use of alternative approaches in hopes that every child will be educated to reach his or her true potential.

I always thought we had good schools here -- what's wrong with the Neenah schools that we need a charter school?

Nothing! Neenah has excellent public schools and talented, dedicated teachers. A charter school simply offers a different instructional approach than a traditional classroom. Many children do not learn well, or as well as they could, in a traditional classroom, where most students are doing the same task and studying the same concepts at the same time. Teachers can’t always allow a student to move far beyond the contents of the chapter in the book being studied or the grade level’s standard curriculum. Other students may be swept along faster than they should be to grasp the material to go on to the next unit with everyone else. In the traditional setting, the day is teacher-directed about 80% of the time, with 20% allowed for some activities of choice. By contrast, in Montessori, education is child-directed about 80% of the time, with the 20% of teacher-directed instruction being more tailored to the individual or small groups. If we are to successfully educate every child, we need to have alternatives.

Don’t charter schools take money away from public schools?

NO! Charter schools ARE public schools. The federal government, as part of its efforts to improve education, has set aside federal grant funds to cover the start-up expenses for charter schools who have been approved by the State Department of Public Instruction. These grant funds can bring $350,000 or more into the district. In the Neenah School District, one of the conditions for being granted a charter by the Board of Education is that operating costs for the charter school will not be more than the operating costs of other district schools – our teacher-student ratio must be similar, and ongoing expenses no more than in other schools.

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[Scuba]

Your snips are way, way off target....

First, charter schools are not public schools any more than BP is a public company because the government buys gas from them.

Secondly, charter schools don't take their fair share of (or any) special needs kids. The kids that cost the most to educate are left behind, but the charter schools take a full share of the education dollar for the kids they do take.

Thirdly, lack of oversight has resulted in many cases of fraud including here in Wisconsin.

Improving, not abandoning, public schools is the pat to success in education our children.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/93304539.html

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/oig/invtreports/x42k0002.pdf

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/oig/invtreports/la022010.html

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/oig/invtreports/pa122009a.html

[noamnety]

9. If all the BP employees were government employees

and the "CEO" at BP were a government employee instead of a CEO, and there were no stockholders, it would be a public company.

Since BP is a private company with private employees and stockholders, this does not seem like an appropriate analogy.

However, I do appreciate the moxie required to attempt this analogy in an effort to associate charter schools with the absolute most disgraced company in the news currently.

[Scuba]

6. Your snips are way, way off target....

First, charter schools are not public schools any more than BP is a public company because the government buys gas from them.

Secondly, charter schools don't take their fair share of (or any) special needs kids. The kids that cost the most to educate are left behind, but the charter schools take a full share of the education dollar for the kids they do take.

Thirdly, lack of oversight has resulted in many cases of fraud including here in Wisconsin.

Improving, not abandoning, public schools is the pat to success in education our children.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/93304539.html

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/oig/invtreports/x42k0002.pdf

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/oig/invtreports/la022010.html

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/oig/invtreports/pa122009a.html

[lamp_shade]

3. This is good news to hear. Sad that some DUers "unrecd" your post.

[mzteris]

8. they can't stand to hear anything good

about a charter public school - or a homeschooler - for that matter.

:shrug:

Speaks more to their character than mine. And says a lot about why some people don't want their kids in some "teachers" classrooms.

[Scuba]

4. Delete dup

public schools is a terrible idea, even if you don't consider the fraud that's been exposed.

[Scuba]

5. How many "special needs" kids are enrolled?

Unless a charter school is taking their fair share of the kids with special needs, you cannot trust their numbers. Charter schools are notorius for cherry-picking top students and leaving the spina-bifida, learning disabled, cognitively disabled and other special needs kids behind for the public schools. Yet they take a full cut of the education dollar for each student.

This problem is similar to heart surgeons establishing their own for-profit hospitals, then cherry-picking the easiest cases and admitting them there while leaving the toughest cases for the non-profits. Remember, Medicare pays the same for each case!!

Privatizing our public schools is a terrible idea, even if you don't consider the fraud that's been exposed.

[mzteris]

7. charter schools do NOT cherry pick - it is a blind lottery

who starts these vile rumours?

Anyone who wants to apply, can. while it is true that during the early stages (remember charters have not been in existence all that long, and most charter schools are less than 10 years old) - having the ability to serve some special needs kids was difficult. That is changing and changing rapidly. You do realize don't you, that some traditional schools also do not "serve" certain special needs kids - they are shunted to "specific" schools in their districts.

In my son's school there are children who have disabilities across the spectrum, cognitive, specific LD's, speech/language, other primary, and EBD.

And as I posted to you in another thread, NO, charters do NOT get the same "cut of education dollars" for each student. They operate on LESS per student.

All charter public schools are NON-PROFIT. only 10% are managed by for-profit management companies. These same companies have managed traditional schools. 10% are managed by non-profit charter organizations - these are the "chain" schools you hear about.

the other 80% are operated solely by LOCALS - parents and teachers and former teachers and former school administrators, and community members!

These stories about charter public schools do no one any good. Please open up your eyes and your mind and take a look at all the good stories about charters - they far outweigh the bad.

I for the life of me cannot understand they enmity against charter public schools as a whole. Some "operators" should be shot. Some "schools" should be closed. Some "schools" should be closely scrutinized - but the concept as a whole? Really? Every single charter public school is an awful terrible thing? REALLY? We don't shut down all traditional school because of the myriad scandals that take place daily in some trad school somewhere!


Besides the link I gave you elsewhere, here's another on charters for you to take a look at. http://www.publiccharters.org/

Are you in Milwaukee? I'd love to meet you - I'm trying to get a meetup together on July 6th near the airport. Check out the WI forum.

[Kerrytravelers]

11. This is so true.

some traditional schools also do not "serve" certain special needs kids - they are shunted to "specific" schools in their districts.

In the two districts I have worked in, certain schools were equipped for certain needs. The SED kids were together at one school, the kids in the County program were in another, etc.

[elleng]

12. SO HAPPY to see POSITIVE reaction to charters here!!!

:thumbsup:

[Greyskye]

17. Here are the special needs stats for my wife's current charter school class:

Here is a quote from her in a thread a little earlier this year:

I'm Greyskye's wife - a charter school teacher. I have a classroom of 25 fourth and fifth grade students. 10 of the 25 students receive special ed services (that is a dramatically larger percentage than most traditional public school classrooms would have). I make $10,000 less per year than the teachers at the school next door. Our school receives no facilities funding from the state, unlike the school next door. Our ESL population is identical to the school next door.

(more, but irrelevant to the question)

The 'school next door' she is referring to is a public school serving the same grade levels, located directly across the street from the non-profit charter public school she teaches at.

Not all charter schools are private. The ones in our area are non-profit public schools.

Cheers.

[mzteris]

19. no charter schools are private -

they are all public and they are all free and they are all non-profit.

[Greyskye]

21. I'm pro charter.

However, it is my understanding that there are some for-profit companies that are running charter schools in some states. That's not the case where I live.

Here is what wikipedia has to say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_school

Additionally, school districts sometimes permit corporations to open chains of for-profit charter schools.

This is what I was referring to, and seems to be where the majority of the charter problems that some people here keep talking about. The rest of us are dealing with the primary type of charter schools. Again from wikipedia:

Some charter schools are founded by teachers, parents, or activists who feel restricted by traditional public schools.<4> State-authorized charters (schools not chartered by local school districts) are often established by non-profit groups, universities, and some government entities.

I'm absolutely pro-charter, but as I understand it (and understand the wiki references), there are some for-profit charter schools. I wish there weren't. I'm not saying that they aren't free, or part of a public school system, but if it's run by a for-profit corporation you can't call it a non-profit.

On edit - more from wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_school#Debate_over_funding

Additional concerns arise when, as in Michigan, charter schools are run for profit. Many educators worry that education will suffer when funding is split between profit and educational spending, rather than going completely toward educational spending as is done in traditional public schools.<75> Charter schools in Michigan, where for-profit charter schools are common, have performed at a lower level than their traditional public school counterparts.<71>

[mzteris]

22. while some charter public schools are being managed

by for-profit management companies, the schools themselves are still non-profit. There are only appx 10% of all charters that are being managed by said companies. The same companies that have managed traditional schools, too. The percentage is rapidly getting smaller, btw.

Another 10% of charters are MANAGED by non-profit charter corporations.

The other 80% are locally managed by local boards of directors consisting of parents, teachers and former teachers and other school administrators along with other citizens concerned about the welfare of the community.

That wiki statement is incorrect. There are no for-profit charter schools.

[Greyskye]

23. Here is the Business Week source material linked by wiki:

http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_06/b3667001.htm

Mosaica is a harbinger of what proponents believe will be a revolutionary force in U.S. education: for-profit companies that run publicly funded schools. In the past few years, more than a dozen new school-management companies have sprung up from nowhere (table). They offer widely differing approaches, but all promise to make a buck while doing something that 15 years of school reform has largely failed to achieve--namely, better educate America's children.

I personally hate everything I've heard about these leeching for-profit companies, and I wish they would die a miserable death. But they do exist. Maybe it's a semantics issue and we just aren't communicating right; but they are here and in business, at least by the definition that I'm working under. :shrug:

Edit - oh and we crossposted a bit, I added some to the end of the post you were replying to at the same time. :hi:

[mzteris]

25. I think it is semantics -

Charters are granted to an authorized group. That charter can then be "managed" by a local board of directors or "contracted" out to a management organization - whether profit or non-profit.

The charter itself is non-profit. They can pay the management company for it's services in the same way they would have paid the principal, staff, and teachers. It varies from charter to charter and state to state based on laws (and some states laws truly suck). So the "charter" pays the management company and the management company then is responsible for managing the daily operations of the school.

Now do some management companies do this to "make money" - yeah, unfortunately - but I think you'll see them disappear almost completely within the next few years. They seem to be getting into the virtual school business instead (which should also be monitored for fraud).

I don't approve of the for profit management companies, either. but I don't think ALL charters should be painted with that brush when only 10% of them are managed by a for-profit. And even if one doesn't like the concept of a "management company" period - well, people need to understand that 80% of all charter schools are managed and operated by a local group of citizens.


Here's the thing about funding I wish the common person would understand - I'm posting an excerpt from a NC charter organization:

Public Charter Schools are not taking any money from the traditional public schools, but rather are relieving the traditional schools of the burden and expense of providing a building, teachers, textbooks, etc. when students enroll in a Public Charter School. The Charter Schools do not “take” any of the traditional school’s money for school construction or maintenance.

 Each school system receives a designated amount of “operating” money from the state and the county for each child living in the county who attends a school in that system. Each school reports its actual enrollment during the first 20 school days each year. The North Carolina Department of Public Instruction determines the total number students in each school system and provides a set amount of funding for each student in the system for oper-ating each school.

 The county likewise determines the number of students attending each school and pro-vides per capita funding for school operations for each student in the system.

 The county also provides “capital” funds for school construction for the local school sys-tem. The state may also provide some capital funding for school construction, but the pri-mary source of capital funding is the local government.

 The “operating” money the state and local government allocate for each child follows the child to the charter school, but the charter school, not the traditional school, then has the responsibility to provide an education for that child, including providing school buildings.

 Public Charter Schools also receive the same state and local “operating” money for each student attending its school along with the responsibility to provide an education for that child. However, unlike traditional schools, Public Charter Schools receive no “capital” fund-ing for school construction or maintenance from the State or Local County. When a student attends a Public Charter School instead of a traditional public school, the Charter School re-ceives the state and local “operating” money that would have gone to the traditional public school had the child attended that school. The Public Charter School has to provide a build-ing, teachers, textbooks and administrative support, in short everything the traditional school provides except that unlike a traditional school, the Charter School must build or rent its facilities without any “capital” funding from the state or county.

 Most Public Charter Schools spend around 20% of the money they and the traditional schools receive for operating each school in order to fund their facilities because they receive no capital funding for buildings.
Public Charter Schools use private capital funding to construct buildings and facilities so that each charter school building costs the taxpayers nothing.

[Greyskye]

26. Definitely semantics.

I do think that my interpretation is more prevalent, however, just on the face that my understanding seems to be the same as used in Wikipedia. Other then that, our charter world-views appear to be identical.

The only difference I can spot off of the top of my head between California laws, and those that you posted from North Carolina is this: Attendance is taken every day at all public schools in California, including public charters. The school gets money for every day that the student is enrolled throughout the entire school year; not just the first 20 days.

I agree that the virtual schools need to be closely monitored. The Montessori accrediting agencies that my wife deals with will not accept on-line only credentials.

:hi:

[Kerrytravelers]

10. That is excellent news.

As an educator, I am always pleased to see students doing well.

There is so much misinformation regarding charter schools. I always look to the California Department of Education for information.
http://www.cde.ca.gov/sp/cs/re/qandasec1mar04.asp
http://www.cde.ca.gov/sp/cs/re/csqatoc.asp
http://www.cde.ca.gov/sp/cs/lr/cspolicytoc.asp

Charter schools in CA are public and staffed only by credentialed teachers, who are unionized or, if it's a new school, can unionize.

[Greyskye]

24. Just as an FYI

I'm in CA as well, and my wife teaches at a public non-profit charter. The teachers there are not unionized, and there has been no movement to do so. :shrug: They are however, all credentialed.

The school has been around for quite a few years now, so it doesn't really count as a 'new' school. I'm not really sure what the early history of the school was.

[knitter4democracy]

13. That sounds like where I teach.

I teach in a public school district-managed alternative charter high school, and we do good work with what we have to work with.

[mzteris]

14. the vast majority of charter public schools

are doing good work. But the haters only want to post the small handful of "scandals" and clamor for all charters to be closed. If we closed schools due to scandals, then there wouldn't be nary a one traditional public school open in the country.


I am so sick and tired of the charter public school bashing by those who have never ever stepped foot in one and who doesn't know the children nor the teachers nor the people on the board of directors. They've never sat through planning meetings - parents and teachers - without PAY! - who only want what is BEST FOR THE CHILDREN! They aren't concerned about those 1/2 minutes, ya know?

And I'm going to say something I've been avoiding, the reason why there are so many "segregated" charter schools - is because so many MINORITIES have decided to start their OWN SCHOOLS because they are so damn tired of the white capitalist patriarchy keeping them down with their oh-so-subtle forms of racism and discrimination.

IMVHO - a huge percentage of charter public schools exist as a direct result of racism in the traditional public schools in their communities.

[mbperrin]

15. Actual link or evidence that this is an actual document?

I mean, even the name has been redacted.

[mzteris]

18. If you pm me I'll be happy to give you a link.

It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out my son's school from my posts, but I'm not going to make it easy for any creeps, ya know?

[Greyskye]

16. Congrats on your success!

It really is the parental and local involvement that seems to make all the difference in a successful charter school program. Thanks for showcasing another good example of how charters should, and in many cases are, run.

We have a number of very successful, non-profit public charter schools in our area as well.

[mzteris]

20. Thanks!

I don't know some teachers feel so threatened by the existence of charters.

It's sad that the vast majority of them have absolutely NO first hand knowledge yet they want to reject every single charter school out of hand because of a very very small handful of some charters that are badly run. Or they believe that horrid lie that it is all about being "anti-union". pffft - not all traditional teachers are union, and there are charter union schools (my son's is), and the teachers union even started their OWN charters - so that dog doesn't hunt, yet they keep yelling bird!