I'm Not EVEN Looking For A Flamefest- But I have a Question About Guns

[queerart]

I have a question about gun ownership for the GLBTQI community......


My honest question is: Do you think there is some middle ground on "responsible gun ownership" in the GLBTQI community?


I have spent a little time looking at what other Queers have to say about gun ownership, and the views range from "very anti gun"...you are going to put an eye out with that thing....... to....... there should be a law that every GLBTQI has to own a gun".....


Fer Christ's sakes... is there no middle ground where folks can vacillate a bit? Sort of like the Kinsey scale on Queerness?


The thought of owning a gun "doesn't make me hard", and I admit to being somewhat conflicted about buying a gun.... but I think there are times when it might come in handy... (namely, home protection).... and if owning a gun is anything like the extra warranty I always buy and never need.... I would be very pleased to never have to reach for my gun.... to never have to use (or think about using it) would be perfect......


This thread doesn't need, nor do I want it to become a slug fest... so if you have a "strong bias" on either side of the issue (anti/pro gun).. then please don't post..... as after reading a zillion pages online... I have already heard all of the "slogans" from both sides......


Now, I won't jump up and reply to every post (should there even be any replies :)), but rather watch what others might have to say.....


One of my biggest questions would be... if one bought a gun, are you allowed by law to paint it? Would it depend on what state one was in?


Another question would be.... (to the GLBTQI community).... Do you own a gun? If so, I imagine practice would be paramount.....


Lastly, if you own a gun... is it for home protection, and if it is.... would you feel comfortable telling me what kind you bought?

[RKP5637]

1. This might be helpful

http://www.pinkpistols.org/

I can see why people want protection anymore. Fortunately where I live I feel pretty safe at home, but I can see that not always being the case. I know here they're parts of downtown I would never consider going to to be out at night.

[queerart]

3. Thanks My Friend.....

Sadly there is no active chapter of the Pink Pistols in my area....


But I very much appreciate the link.......

[TheWraith]

54. Also try this: TheLiberalGunClub.com.

I don't know the Pink Pistols, but I've heard they tend to be reactionary. TLGC is a dedicated left-wing gun group, and it has several DUers (including me) as card carrying members.

[queerart]

55. I Appreciate That.....

Thanks....

[ProgressiveProfessor]

34. I to support the Pink Pistols

[HillWilliam]

52. As a queer gun-owner

I did check out the Pink Pistols. What I ran into was a raving, right-wing, extremely anti-Obama, nutwing screedfest. They may be mostly GLBT, but they are absolutely NOT liberals... and they detest liberals with a passion. For that reason, I return the sentiment.

Fuck them. There are liberal gun-owners groups. I'd suggest ANYbody but Pink Pistols.

For the OP:

I've got a very few pieces: 12ga shotgun (we have coyotes, wild pigs and bobcats around here), a 20ga shotgun, a .380 semiauto pistol, a .22 semiauto pistol for target practice, and a couple of rifles. My partner and I live way out in the country and we rescue and rehabilitate herding breed dogs. They're pretty defenseless against the bigger, meaner critters; especially since they're taught to be gentle in preparation for being canine assistants.

[queerart]

56. I Send You Hugs My Friend.....

Thanks for the heads up.... I had no idea....

[HillWilliam]

60. Glad to help. It amazes me how many times

people suggest Pink Pistols without knowing who they are. No callout to the previous poster, intended. A lot of people just don't realize. Not every GLBT* centric group is liberal.

I followed their list for several months before and after the 2008 election. After the election, they got crazier and crazier, devolving into a group of ultra-right-wing reactionaries. I just quietly left the list and found a couple of liberal gun clubs.

You might want to check out ranges in your area. I go to one in Greensboro where a lot of police, sheriff's officers, etc train. They're pretty low-key, extremely helpful, patient with questions, and if you're a regular member (I have been), they have quite a few pieces you can try. Training and coaching are included with membership. Interview ranges, look around, look at the parking lot too. There might be one similar to my favorite in your area.

Best of luck, friend! :hug:

[donco]

2. This would

be a good question for the gun forum.

[personman]

4. I bought a gun for target shooting.

A rifle. A Remington 870 20-guage.

I keep slug shells handy in case of home invasion, but I think it is unlikely to happen. (and if it does happen, it will likely be the cops, and holding the gun will equate to an instantaneous death sentence...)

If I were queer, reading about the hate crimes committed against such people, I would probably carry a pistol. Friend of mine had a nice .22 pistol stolen... Would be a great self-defense weapon. He bought a 9mm to replace it, which will also do the job. :)

I owned a BB gun at age 9, and I grew up in Ohio, so gun culture is part of it. I'm far from an expert but I like to play.

-Andy

[queerart]

5. Thanks For Your Thoughts.....

I'm assuming when you say a 9mm, you are speaking of a Glock 17?


Or is that just a normal size that all makers use (meaning 9mm)?


I think however you are right (after reading allot over the past few days)... many say shotgun (and since I don't know guns per say, I think that is what you meant).... and it's extremely unlikely for me to experience a home invasion as well.....


But it never hurts to be a Boy Scout in these situations... (being prepared) ;-)

[personman]

6. I was thinking Glock actually... but I believe it's a standard.

A measure of diameter of the size of the bullet.

Caliber is inches. So a .22 caliber is about a quarter inch bullet. A 9 MM is about a 1/3rd inch bullet.

They say .22 is best for home defense and killing because it has a tendency to bounce inside the skull.

A 50 calliber is a half inch thick bullet... That sorta deal.

I'm actually not really much of a gun person, but I own the shotgun, and I play war games online (because nobody dies there) so I have looked up some strange guns on wikipedia.

[queerart]

7. You Are A Good Fellow Indeed.....

... your time, and replies were very much appreciated...... truly.....


It's all something to think about.........

[ProgressiveProfessor]

35. As a firearms instructor I can categorically state that a .22 is inadequate for defensive purposes

[personman]

47. I will defer to your authority on this...

What would you recommend? like a 9mm at least?

[RKP5637]

12. What you posted was interesting. Thanks! I have three guns here, a

single barrow shotgun and two .22 rifles. I inherited them, but used to target practice as a kid with the .22. I was pretty good at the NRA range. I just keep them here just in case. They need a good cleaning and going over, but no broken parts or beat up at all.

I figured if it gets much nastier I might get them overhauled by a shop just in case. It seems one never knows anymore what BS might occur.

[queerart]

17. You Bring Up A Good Point....

One that I had been thinking about earlier.....


What does one do if their gun breaks? Can you go back tot he place you bought it from, or do you go to a "gun doctor" so to speak?



.... and to oil a gun is important, no?

[RKP5637]

29. Depending on the gun shop one brought it from they should be able to take

care of servicing it if something breaks, as well as, instruct you in how to care for it, oiling, cleaning, etc. If me, I would only go to a good gun shop where I could get full service, Some of then even have a step-up to train you in the use of the gun. That's what I think I would do.

[queerart]

31. I Think You Are Right.....

No firearm without (at least) some basic training.....

[Old Codger]

21. Shotgun

You are way ahead keeping shot shells for home defense, anything that happens is going to be close and maybe fast, the shot shells take less aiming and have a lot less chance of passing through walls and killing someone on the other side, for instance a child sleeping in next room. also the shot shell will do a lot more damage up close than the slug.

[queerart]

23. Very Good Point..... n/t

[personman]

48. Yes, but what you're forgetting is Zombies...

Gotta have the slugs in case of zombies... shot just slows them down.

:P

[Vanje]

50. OOOh . Wingmaster?

I used to have one of those

[William769]

8. I own a weapon.

I am retired law enforcement, but I am also a Gay man and considering where I live, I prefer to have a weapon for peace of mind.

As to what I own, it is a 357 with a 6 inch barrel (intimidating effect) smith & wesson.

[queerart]

13. You Know.....

I have read where many say a .357 is best (in the handgun range)... as they don't jam like what a Glock can....


I guess just more to ponder.... and I Thank You for sharing your thoughts.... :hug:

[RKP5637]

15. That's intimidating just hearing about it!

[mitchtv]

9. Partner and I have 3

a 22 handgun a 22 rifle and a 10g shotgun. They are for home defense; as we are swniors and home invasions on oldsters is not uncommon. I believe in sensible gun laws and if I were still hitting the clubs, I'd pack heat.

[queerart]

19. Very Cool....

Sounds like you are ready for what ever might come up......


Many Thanks for taking the time to post a message......


I do have a question though.... what is the difference between a 10g, and a 20g shotgun?


Is it the barrel size?

[mitchtv]

41. I don't really know if it is bullet or barrel

.22 is small;. .10 is small for a shotgun, next is .12 which is a bit bigger and the classic shotgun that has the buckshot type shells available I never heard of a .20 guage shotgun.

[Vanje]

51. 20 gauge is a little quail shooter

10 gauge is a goose cannon.

[TheWraith]

57. Yes, it's barrel size, as well as ammo size.

12 gauge is the "de facto" size for most shotguns. 20 gauge is smaller, actually. It's based from the old days of cannons, where the size was measured by the weight of a ball of lead that size. A "one pound" cannon fired a one pound lead ball. "Gauge" is a sub-pound measurement: 12 gauge means 12 lead balls of that diameter would make a pound. That's why 20 gauge is a smaller gun, 12 guage is larger, and 10 gauge is huge.

That said, 20 gauge will still put a person down, and some people prefer them for giving less recoil than a 12 gauge.

[AtheistCrusader]

10. You can have a firearm refinished in about any colors you can imagine.

Only legal tripup would be around the tip, which cannot be orange. (Orange tip used to signify a toy, like an airsoft or non-firearm that appears to be a firearm)


California legal:

[Leftist Agitator]

14. Your Hello Kitty M16 makes Kalashnikitty sad...

[queerart]

18. LOL... A Hello Kitty Gun....

Is that even real? What kind of gun is that? Looks like something from the Army....

[AtheistCrusader]

20. It's an AR-15 with a california-legal stock.

It is a semi-automatic version of the military M-16 for civilian use.

[queerart]

22. Ahhhhhh......

Your answer was much appreciated my friend....


I had no idea there was so much variety out there... but I'm thinking the AR-15 with a california-legal stock is out of my league....

[AtheistCrusader]

24. They run about $700.

They are favored by target shooters due to the accuracy, and the very low recoil of the rifle. My mom has no trouble at all with hers, and she's only 5'2".

That paintjob likely ran 200$ or so.

[queerart]

27. Well Now......

Maybe Hello Kitty is in my future.....


I could always get some fluffy slippers to match......

[Leftist Agitator]

11. If you want a firearm for home protection...

I recommend a pump-action 12 gauge shotgun, loaded with 00 buckshot. If you live in an apartment, this may be too prone to overpenetration, so if so, I would load the same weapon with #4 buckshot, followed by a round or two of 00 just in case #4 is insufficient to stop an attack.

You can get an excellent pump-action 12 gauge at your local gun shop, Wal-Mart, or at the following website:

http://www.gunbroker.com

I highly endorse Mossberg products. The Mossberg 500 is an excellent weapon, as is their lower-end brand, the Mossberg Maverick. I own one of each in 12 gauge, and can attest to the fact that they are well-built, reliable, and easy to operate and care for.

[queerart]

16. Someone Else Mentioned A Mossberg Online....

One more thing to consider.... and thanks for the link.....

[HillWilliam]

53. Smith has a couple of shielded-hammer, short-barrel revolvers

Any of which I'd love to have. Simple, small enough for carry, reliable. There's a couple of .38+Ps I've got my eye on both for carry and home protection. If I still lived in the city, that's what I'd go for next. Since I live out in the sticks, break-ins are almost out of the question. But we do have big critters. I'm pretty darn accurate with either a pistol or a rifle, but if I'm down in the bottomland and Something Nasty runs up on me, having a pistol handy in my pocket (hence the desire for shielded hammer) gives me an edge. My .380 isn't quite the answer (large size, PITA to carry, but very reliable and accurate).

Sigh. Now I want to go shopping.

[FreeState]

25. My view is as long a it's legal I don't care that law abiding people have them, however

I would never own one and would never allow one in my house for any reason. I believe that ultimately guns should be banned outside of the military, but that's me.

[queerart]

28. ... And I Respect Your Position.....

I really do.... and I appreciate you taking the time to post in the thread.....

[ProgressiveProfessor]

39. Some of my students used to have that approach

A bashing, mugging, or robbery changed their minds.

[FreeState]

42. I or close friend and relatives have experienced all of those - has not changed my mind n/t

[Rowdyboy]

26. My partner inherited 4 rifles and 2 handguns from his dad....(no idea of the model/caliber ?)

We gave them to his nephew who subsequently died and we're supposed to be getting them back. My experience trying to shoot a rifle 40 years ago in high school ROTC was definitely not encouraging.

We really do need to learn for basic protection.

[queerart]

30. I'm Right There With You.....

RE: We really do need to learn for basic protection


I think getting a gun for basic protection is probably a good idea.....

[urbuddha]

32. We should help all sentient beings and if you can't help them at least don't hurt them.

No weapons for me. I'm a Buddhist and a pacifist.
We should try to help all sentient beings and if you
can't help them at least don't hurt them.

[HillWilliam]

61. Practice and patience, buddy

Shooting a rifle should come fairly easily. My granddad taught me when I was 10. By the time I got into the military it was second-nature.

BRAS: Breathe, Relax, Aim, Squeeze. Works like a charm.

I learned to shoot a pistol much later. The same principle works. By the time I took the concealed carry course, it was very easy.

The one thing we worked on in the CCH course was quick-fire, something I couldn't do at my regular range. It is absolutely amazing how accurate you can be with quick-fire with just a bit of practice.

To be frank, sadly, I have no real talents aside from writing pretty, structured programs. I'm pretty clumsy; the running joke is I had to learn to dance because I couldn't bloody walk without tripping over the design in a rug. (I am a pretty good dancer, though :) ) The point is, if I can learn to shoot well, I'm sure you can, too.

Learn the law first, then find a range that suits your comfort zone.

Pity we're not closer. I taught my partner to shoot well. I'd be glad to some some time with you guys if we were.

[w8liftinglady]

33. well,heck... This IS Texas.

My oldest has three guns,which I keep for him when he's out of the country. A pistol,rifle and shotgun. My other two kids have small caliper shot-guns. They go to the gun range with their dad quite a bit.They talk about hunting,but really aren't into it.
My partner was a cop for a long time and has a rifle and a shotgun strictly for self-defense and varmint control.

Me?I would be dangerous if I tried to shoot-my aim sucks.

[MNBrewer]

36. of what use is a gun in "home protection"?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

38. Critical, depending on the circumstances

[MNBrewer]

40. Well, describe a circumstance in which a gun would be of use in "home protection"

Please.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

43. Multiple armed assailants attempting to gain access to the interior of the residence

intent on doing great bodily harm to the occupants.

[MNBrewer]

59. Oh, so protection of residents, not "home protection"

[ProgressiveProfessor]

37. I teach firearms mostly to GLBTQI people and women

Most have never held a weapon before they come to class. While I cover the full curriculum, I also spend some time discussing the phobias and political aspects of firearms ownership as it applies to gender minorities and women. The guilt some gays feel about being armed is surprising.

I don't sell weapons, so I have no financial interest in what they buy, if anything. However, experience has shown that the key to successful use of a defensive weapon is recurrent training/practice, not it being the magic caliber or gauge or using the magic bullet/round. The reality is that a mid caliber pistol is often the best choice since ammo and practice ranges are readily available unless you live in a repressive hell hole like Chicago or Washington DC.

I live in the middle of nowhere and my choice for defensive weapons reflects that environment. For a defensive pistol its a .45 ACP. I also have a working pistol which is a revolver with a mix of loads in the cylinder, such as snake shot.

[Creideiki]

44. I served in the Navy and trained with the Marines

I won't own a weapon in my house because I'm urban and don't need one (zombie apocalypse notwithstanding--if that happens, I'll get to Walmart, but that's pretty unlikely).

I won't own a weapon because I plan on getting a home in the next year and fostering and/or adopting kids who've been kicked out of their homes for being GLBT. I know the statistics and won't put future foster and adopted children at more risk than they already are.

I recognize other people aren't in my situation. Let them make their own decisions.

Perhaps if I decide to take up hunting (not too likely, as I don't have the temperament for it), I'll reconsider for a hunting rifle.

[queerart]

45. What A Good Soul You Are....

RE:(fostering and/or adopting kids who've been kicked out of their homes for being GLBT)....



You should be very proud of yourself for wanting to do something so noble....

[personman]

46. I'll admit to not having the highest opinions of those in uniform...

Illegal wars and what-not.

But you won me over with taking in GLBT kids. Can't argue with that.

Good on ya.

For the record, I've not served, but I've helped instruct army soldiers on street-fighting, hand to hand and sticks and knives, that sort of thing.

Also, I worry about zombie epidemics. I keep a gun with slugs handy, I've studied the side-kick, and am an honorary member of the http://www.fvza.org/">FVZA

If people come over appearing drunk, I make them take a zombie screening, just to be sure. Consists of questions like "Would you prefer apple-sauce...or BRAINS?"

-Andy

[Creideiki]

62. Remember that service members don't pick the wars

Most would rather there be no wars--it's our friends dying and getting hurt. National foreign policy isn't set by privates, corporals, sergeants, gunnies, lieutenants, captains and majors.

For a lot, it's a jobs program. For others, it's the only path to college. For me, it was about getting out of Illinois the only way that I would be able to.

Remember the words of the Wise Man:

Gandalf: So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.

[Vanje]

49. This Lesbian has an old 22

I don't keep it for self-protection.
I raise livestock in a very rural area.
Sometimes , Not often, but SOMETIMES, I have to shoot something.
I never have , and never will point my gun at people.

[beyurslf]

58. I don't have any guns and I don't really consider it a queer issue.

I don't have guns in my house because I have kids (teenagers) and I think we are safer in my home not having them. I don't care what other people do as long as they are safe and responsible.

[plantwomyn]

63. Get comfortable!

Go to your nearest range and try out different weapons. It all depends on what you are comfortable with.
My wife and I live in three acres in a rural part of Northern Indiana just south of the Michigan line. Not too long ago members of a violent militia were arrested within 50 miles of our house. My wifes brother lives in the area and is very into the militia movement. He beleives you can rape the gay away.

So YES we have weapons. Since we are on a budget we decided to be as multi use as possible and to pick weapons that use the same cal ammunition. My wife is small so a 12 gauge is too big for her to be comfortable with. We got a Remington 870 Junior 20 gauge. It stays loaded with first a #6 both bird shot. This gives you a wide pattern and is accepted by law enforcement as a "warning shot". Next we get serious, and the next 2 shells are #3 buckshot and if needed the next two shells are slugs. I must say though that there is no more universal warning sound than a shotgun chambering a shell.

Next we have a Hi Point 22 semi-auto and a 6 shot Rugar, both pistols and presents from my mother in law who carried them when she lived in Arizona in the 70's. We added a 10/22 Ruger for longer range and varmint protection. Unfortunately we have dog packs in the area though we have been able to scare them off and have never had to kill an animal yet. So we have two different kinds of weapons using the same 22 cal ammo.

Then comes that bigger stuff. A XD 9mm sub-compact semi-auto pistol. Small and deadly. My wife loves it and even though she is small she is extremely accurate with this 9mm because it has very little kick. She is versed in weapons as an ex-military and law enforcement officer and she prefers accuracy over punch. After all no matter how big the caliber, if you can't hit anything you might as well just throw the damn thing at the attacker. We also have a slightly larger S&W 9mm for me.

We looked at semi-automatic rifles and the cost was too prohibitive for us. Until I saw the Hi-Point 9mm rifle. Ugly as hell but accurate and tuff as nails. They ain't an assault rifle but they pack a punch for the money. The added fact that we could afford 2 of them and use the same 9mm ammo as our pistols was the cincher. We got them on sale too because Hi-point came out with a new stock. These rifles are so accurate and have so little kick that anyone can use them and be sure that they will hit what they aim at. The guys at the range fell in live with the Hi-Points and said that they saw them as an alternative for the very expensive alternatives, especially for woman or teenagers that have a hard time shooting assault rifles accuately.

The only truely long range weapon we splurged on was a 700 Remington 30.06 and even that we got on sale. I figured that if the SHTF I would rather stop an attacker at long range if possible than to wait to "see the whites of their eyes" although with the scope I can do just that. We both shoot a 5" cluster at 500 yards with the 700.

So the only thing left to do was to quietly make our gay bashing neighbors know that we were armed and dangerous. Our insurance agent just happened to grow up with some of the local "white trash" who had been vandalizing our property. She mentioned to them that "Oh by the way those dykes you have been harrassing just bought a new shotgun." The "boys in the hood" couldn't help but test us I guess and they decided to have a beer party out back late on night. But after I walked out back and the laser light from my rifle zoned in on them they ran off and have never come back.

But what's important is that you get comfortable with any weapon you choose. Once you do buy something, practice every chance you get.

[HillWilliam]

65. ...[T]here is no more universal warning sound than a shotgun chambering a shell.

Amen, sister. For that reason, we keep the 12ga handy. Now, our neighbors are really cool, but we live waaaaayyy out in the country. Our neighbors know we're armed, but so is everyone around here. We all get along, don't want no trouble. O T O H . . .

There's a medium-security prison about 6 miles away through rough country. That is one sound a prisoner would immediately recognize. That and our six bigass dogs. We don't play. The 12ga has slugs. No we don't expect any walkaways from the prison, but we do have wild hogs and big cats around. They'll hurt our dogs in a heartbeat. They're all herding breeds, not very effective for protection, trained to be gentle as canine assistants. It's up to me to defend them. I've only ever needed one shot.

[queerart]

66. Many Thanks For All The Information......

I really appreciate you taking the time to post.....


You have given me much to think over.......


My Best To You, & Yours Wife.......

[plantwomyn]

64. Just wanted to add.

I looked into the Pink Pistols and I disagree with their agreement with the NRA that all things gun are right. I don't think that everyone should have the right to carry a gun where ever, when ever they want. I also don't think that an AK with a 75 round clip is appropriate either. Hell even 30 rounds is scary.

Too many states have lacks laws for even a license to carry. In Indiana there is NO requirement to take any training what so ever. A 18 year old can get a lifetime LTC and thereafter go bananas.

[BigDemVoter]

67. How about robust gun control laws

that limit assault rifles and such to law enforcement officials?

[plantwomyn]

68. +1