National Institutes of Health researchers - risk from thimerosal "low to non-existent"

[EvolveOrConvolve]

The injectable, multi-dose H1N1 vaccine contains the mercury-based preservative thimerosol to reduce risks of bacterial contamination. The presence of thimerosol has once again raised concerns whether there are risks posed to children when the tiny amount of mercury contained in thimerosol is included in a vaccine. In a recent issue of the Journal of Pediatrics, however, a team of scientists supported by the National Institutes of Health reported findings that should alleviate those concerns. The researchers, led by author Michael E. Pichichero, MD, Director of the Rochester General Research Institute, Rochester General Hospital, Rochester, NY evaluated levels of mercury in the blood of the smallest children - prematurely born and low birth weight infants after they received a dose of a childhood vaccine containing thimerosol. They found the levels of mercury were exceedingly low.

By just breathing the air, mothers were passing to their unborn infants some slight amounts of mercury. The mothers did not eat fish that contains mercury, so in the United States and other countries where fish is consumed by pregnant women the levels of mercury would be presumably even higher. After the babies were given vaccines containing thimerosol, their blood levels of mercury did rise to very low levels and then fell rapidly to baseline levels by day ten after the vaccination following the vaccination.”


Dr. Pichichero and colleagues concluded that with this latest data, it is time to recognize that the risk of exposure to thimerosol in vaccines is minimal to non-existent. “The H1N1 vaccine is safe and should be given to those at risk as recommended by the US Centers for Disease Control”, Dr. Pichichero said.

http://www.healthnewsdigest.com/news/Family_Health_210/Study_Examines_Mercury_in_Vaccines.shtml

It's interesting to note that the research highlighted in the article refuted the idea that ethyl mercury, like is found in thimerosol, would cause the same problems as methyl mercury, a poisonous substance often ingested from sea food products.

[sudopod]

1. How to generate scientific controversy

From the Live Granades blog:

http://granades.com/2009/11/11/how-to-generate-scientific-controversy/
_____________________________________

1. Pick something that is regarded as true by the vast majority of scientists in the field and claim that it causes something bad.

2. Demand that scientists prove a negative by showing that the good thing doesn’t actually have bad results.

3. When people point out that the facts don’t back up your claim, ignore them. As those people get angry and shouty at you, smugly say, “They’re persecuting me! They’re so closed-minded that they won’t let anyone ask questions!” Bonus points for saying that science is now a religion.

4. If more patient scientists perform studies that undermine your claim, or if you manage to get the government to modify the good thing to fix what you were complaining about, move the goalposts!

Let’s see what we can do with this. I know: child safety seats! Properly used, they dramatically decrease kids’ injuries in car wrecks. They’re hella effective. So let’s claim that they really aren’t. In fact, their five-point harness can kill. See, the chest latch rides up and the two shoulder belts tighten until your kid will choke to death.

More rational types may point to reports from the U.S.’s National Highway Traffic Safety Administration or the American Academy of Pediatrics describing how much good child safety seats do. It doesn’t matter! They haven’t checked to see if the shoulder belts could strangle your child, or even chop off their heads.

Once I get a celebrity or two behind my cause, I’ll be able to put others on the defensive. The NHTSA will have to perform tests to try to prove that child safety seats don’t strangle babies or chop off their heads. Their test results will probably show no such problem.

That’s okay. We know the real danger is that the car seats don’t install properly. It was nice of the NHTSA to look into the strap-strangulation problem, but our work is far from done.

And now, if you’ll excuse me, I need to go shower.

Update: Since people have asked, I’ve laid out a plan to monetize the controversy. http://granades.com/2009/11/13/how-to-monetize-scientific-controversy/

______________________________________


I lol'd

[Techn0Girl]

6. Nerve Disease from H1N1 vaccine ....

http://www.examiner.com/x-29228-LA-Health-Technology-Examiner~y2009m11d12-Nerve-Disease-from-H1N1-vaccine--Teenager-diagnosed-with-GuillainBarre-syndrome-after-flu-shot

"The 1976 swine flu vaccine program resulted in hundreds of cases of a rare nerve disease called Guillain-Barre syndrome (GBS). This condition results in numbness and weakness in the lower limbs, which spreads upwards through the body. Some patients require hospitalization and artificial respiration due to an inability to control breathing. The paralysis associated with this condition may resolve over time, but nerve damage can also be permanent.

Teenager diagnosed with GBS

A fourteen year old boy has been diagnosed with GBS, hours after receiving his swine flu shot. According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 5 other people have been diagnosed with GBS across the nation since the swine flu vaccine program began in early October."

[EvolveOrConvolve]

7. What are you trying to say?

1. Today's H1N1 vaccine is a different vaccine from the one in 1976. Trying to draw a parallel between the two is fallacious.

2. Guillain-Barre Syndrome occurs in less than 2 people per 100,000 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18443311). There have been millions of H1N1 vaccinations given and only 5 GBS diagnoses that are attributed to the vaccine. That rate is statistically insignificant and the ones saying that *gasp* 5 people have had crippling nerve damage from the vaccine are mostly by breathless reporters trying to sell a story to a gullible public and terrified anti-vaxers with an axe to grind. How many thousands of lives have been saved because of the vaccine?

[Techn0Girl]

19. Trying to draw a parallel between the two is fallacious....

I suppose that would be true were it not for the reports of Guillain-Barre Syndrome coming in as result of this vaccine.

The numbers are not high by any means but it is happening.

The parallels between the '76 outbreak and this one are pretty obvious...

--- There was a huge scare that was disproportionate to the actual flu and it's effects on the population.
--- government entered into a partnership with the Pharma Industry to rush out massive doses of vaccine
--- both vaccines were egg derived vaccines . Egg vaccines (and their susceptibility to bacterial infection) were later shown to be a major cause of Guillain-Barre Syndrome.

[HuckleB]

37. Wrong.

[HuckleB]

20. This appears to be happening on this very thread.

[pnwmom]

2. This may be true with the H1N1 single vaccine. In the past, however, babies

were often given injections of multiple vaccines containing thimerosol on the same day.

And what about the higher blood levels up to day 10? How does this research show that multiple injections of thimerosal-containing vaccine can't damage the nervous system in the ten days while the levels are still elevated?

I agree with him that the flu vaccine is very safe, and I'll be in line for it myself. But that doesn't lead to the conclusion that any amount of thimerosal in any number of vaccines given to any infant is equally safe.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

4. Thimerosal was removed from all routine childhood vaccines in 2001.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

8. The important finding from the research

was that the ethyl mercury didn't cause the damage to the body that methyl mercury does. Methyl mercury is the substance that causes mercury poisoning, and is what you find in seafood in unacceptable levels.

[Celebration]

11. so blood levels are up for ten days

What about tissue levels?

Edited to add: I am not concerned about the average or "median" kid. I would like to know the "tail" of the curve--what about the worst 2-3%? If mercury in vaccines are fine for 97% of kids, but can cause problems in 3%, then we have big BIG problems with mercury in vaccines.

Thankfully mercury is out of childhood vaccines now, for the most part, anyway.

[Techn0Girl]

3. It looks like Dr. Pichichero Has Pharma Industry ties ...

"The author has received research grants and/or honoraria from the following pharmaceutical companies: Abbott Laboratories, Inc.; Bristol-Myers Squibb Company; Eli Lilly & Company; Merck & Co.; Pasteur Merieux Connaught; Pfizer Labs; Roche Laboratories; Roussel-Uclaf; Schering Corporation; Smith Kline Beecham Pharmaceuticals; Upjohn Company; and Wyeth-Lederle.""

http://www.nationalautismassociation.org/library/Safe%20Minds%20Assessment%20of%20the%20Pichichero%20Thimerosal%20Study.pdf


Additionally....

"Oh, and Pichichero has also served as a consultant to vaccine manufacturers, including GSK Biologicals, sanofi pasteur, Wyeth Pharmaceuticals and MedImmune."

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/features_julieshealthclub/2008/01/study-babies-qu.html

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

5. All physicians have ties to pharmaceutical companies.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

9. So what. Can you refute his research?

Have you found inconsistencies or errors in his research techniques? Did you study his methodologies and find a problem with them. If so, please elaborate.

[Why Syzygy]

10. How pharmaceutical industry funding affects trial outcomes: Causal structures and responses

Abstract

Three recent systematic reviews have shown that pharmaceutical industry funding of clinical trials is strongly associated with pro-industry results. This article builds on those analyses, situating funding's effects in the context of the ghost-management of research and publication by pharmaceutical companies, and the creation of social ties between those companies and researchers. There are multiple demonstrated causes of the association of funding and results, ranging from trial design bias to publication bias; these are all rooted in close contact between pharmaceutical companies and much clinical research. Given these points, most proposed measures to respond to this bias are too piecemeal to be adequate.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VBF-4S02PWH-4&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1093457026&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=48966b2919cf224ef390faa071d234eb


IOM Takes Aim at Physician-Industry Ties

Published: April 29, 2009

WASHINGTON, April 29 -- Denouncing many common practices in the medical community, the Institute of Medicine (IOM) is calling for an end to dealings that foster cozy relationships among practitioners, researchers, and drug and device companies. (...)

Researchers should not conduct human research if they have a financial interest in the outcome of the research, unless the circumstance is exceptional. (...)

http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/Ethics/13973

[EvolveOrConvolve]

12. I don't disagree with that

Money plays a factor in nearly everything we do nowadays, but does that mean that this research is wrong, and can you specifically refute the research done by this specific person?

Let's look at the facts:

1. Methyl Mercury can damage the body, because it's molecular makeup allows it to easily penetrate the nervous system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylmercury
2. Methyl Mercury is not present in thimerosal. http://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvaccines/safetyavailability/vaccinesafety/ucm096228
3. Instead, Ethyl Mercury is the compound used in thimerosal. http://www3.niaid.nih.gov/topics/vaccines/understanding/adjuvants.htm
4. There is no indication that Ethyl Mercury causes any problems when used in thimerosal. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/114/3/793?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=thimerosal&searchid=1120120323168_1194&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&journalcode=pediatrics

The facts tend to back up Dr. Pichichero's research, even if he does receive funding from the pharma companies.

[Why Syzygy]

13. pharmaceutical industry funding of clinical trials is strongly associated with pro-industry results

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

25. gun control funding of academic research is strongly associated with pro gun control results

[Techn0Girl]

18. By your "reasoning" smoking is therefore safe as well...

Because there is no methyl mercury in cigarettes either.

Anyone with an ounce of sense knows that poeple who take Industry money are beholden to the industry that funds them.

Cigarette companies paid out huge amounts to research scientists who - surprise! - found smoking did not cause cancer.

Big Pharma does the same thing.
We all know that.
Why don't you?

[EvolveOrConvolve]

41. Stop with the red herrings

They don't advance your cause, and they make you look ignorant.

[tiptoe]

26. +1 n/t

[Techn0Girl]

24. The Doctor takes Pharma Industry Money...

The doctor is taking Pharma industry money. Your citing him is like citing a smoking industry paid scientist.

Many European countries have banned thimerosal as being harmful. Several states have done the same. The FDA BANNED thimerosal fro ALL over the counter products back in 1998 because it was dangerous.

The FDA recommends AGAINST pregnant women taking thimerosal based vaccines. What do you have against pregnant women and little children?

[Why Syzygy]

29. To Improve Access to H1N1/Swine-Flu Vaccine, Washington State Suspends Limits on Mercury

Mercury limits suspended for H1N1 vaccine to improve access

by KLEW Web Staff
Originally printed at http://www.klewtv.com/news/local/61286912.html

OLYMPIA - State health officials are taking steps to ensure Washington residents at highest risk for H1N1 (swine flu) infection have broad access to the new vaccine when it's available.

In a news release, officials said Secretary of Health Mary Selecky is temporarily suspending Washington's limit on the amount of mercury (thimerosal) allowed in H1N1 (swine flu) vaccine given to pregnant women and children under three.

"It's vital to be sure everyone in a high risk group has the choice to be vaccinated when swine flu vaccine becomes available," said Secretary Selecky. "Mercury-free H1N1 vaccine may not always be in stock, and we want to be sure there are no barriers to protecting people."

The six-month suspension is effective through March 23, 2010 and applies only to H1N1 (swine flu) vaccines now being developed. As a precaution, Washington state law limits the amount of mercury that can be in vaccines for pregnant women and children under three. The secretary of health can suspend the law when there's a shortage of vaccine or during a disease outbreak - both criteria apply to the H1N1 (swine flu) vaccine. Supplies of mercury-free vaccine will be limited, which may stop people in these groups who want the vaccine from getting it. (...)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=222&topic_id=71166

[HuckleB]

30. BS...

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=2466

Educate yourself. Assumptions are dangerous.

[mhatrw]

14. All this test did was measure the level of mercury in the blood days after a single vaccination.

It proves nothing about the long term safety of thimerosal.

Furthermore, there were http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalautismassociation.org%2Flibrary%2FSafe%2520Minds%2520Assessment%2520of%2520the%2520Pichichero%2520Thimerosal%2520Study.pdf&rct=j&q=Pichichero+thimerosal&ei=EE8AS46lEpSCsgPl_eiHCw&usg=AFQjCNGIpIHHt0Zr4N1dVeAxbXlQMIhYyQ">many problems with this study.

[Why Syzygy]

16. !

!

[EvolveOrConvolve]

22. Read it again

Since thimerosol has been largely removed from vaccines in the US since 2001, this study of 72 newborn infants was conducted at the Hospital Durand in Buenos Aires, Argentina. In Argentina, like many countries of the world, vaccines are purchased through sources supported by the World Health Organization and the WHO has rejected the notion that thimerosol in vaccines is unsafe. This is the third and final study by Dr. Pichichero and his colleagues that tested mercury levels following the injection of vaccines containing thimerosol. Previous studies were conducted on term newborns, and on 2-and 6-month old infants. In those studies, the researchers also found the mercury levels in the vaccinated children were very low and quickly returned to pre-vaccine levels, usually within three to seven days. In 1999, when the first concerns about thimerosol in vaccines was raised, it was presumed that the ethyl mercury in thimerosol would behave in the same manner as methyl mercury in fish after ingested. The three NIH-supported studies clearly refuted that idea.

And stop with the anti-vax links - they have no basis in reality.

[sam sarrha]

15. what about specifically.. Developing Nervous Systems.. as nerves are being created as opposed

to existing nervous systems..

do they address that..??

[Celebration]

17. Honestly it seems like a pretty stupid end point

I imagine lead is mostly out of the blood in ten days after you ingest it (if you aren't exposed in the meantime). But it is spread all around the body in the nerves, tissues, etc.

Let me guess--we could give kids something like a bit of arsenic, and, if the kid survives, it would probably mostly be out of the blood in ten days.

This doesn't tell anything at all about the danger--just about the half life of the injected thimerosal.

[Why Syzygy]

21. Additionally

Diagnosis

Diagnosis of elemental or inorganic mercury poisoning involves determining the history of exposure, physical findings, and an elevated body burden of mercury. Although whole blood mercury concentrations are typically less than 6 μg/L, diets rich in fish can result in blood mercury concentrations higher than 200 μg/L; it is not that useful to measure these levels for suspected cases of elemental or inorganic poisoning because of mercury's short half-life in the blood. If the exposure is chronic, urine levels can be obtained; 24-hour collections are more reliable than spot collections. It is difficult or impossible to interpret urine samples of patients undergoing chelation therapy, as the therapy itself increases mercury levels in the samples.<27>

Diagnosis of organic mercury poisoning differs in that whole-blood or hair analysis is more reliable than urinary mercury levels.<27>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning#Treatment

The 'researchers' verified the half life of mercury. ~Wow~

[Techn0Girl]

40. It's been addrresed -

The preservative is banned from use in vaccines for pregnant woman in the U.S. because of it's toxicity.

Additionally the chemical has been banned in the U.S. in preparations for over the counter use since 1998 , again because of it's toxicity. It used to be widely used in contact lens solutions but was deemed eventually unsafe to be used even in near the eyes.

Those are the facts and can be easily googled up.
You have a lot of black and white thinkers on Internet boards who are convinced their odd opinions must always be right. Such folk often dismiss the Thimerosal controversy out of hand.

Look , for all we know the pharma industry is sending shills into Internet boards to post positive things about particular drugs. They've been literally caught at it before and we even have a name for it now - it's called astroturfing.

No disrespect to this original poster whom I most certainly not calling an industry shill - I'm just saying that it happens and sensible people have to look at both sides of a controversy and make up their own minds and live with the consequences.

A non-mercury containing alternative is available for pregnant woman and for the countries, like Canada , that prohibit the mercury based preservative.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

43. You accuse me of being a shill

Then say "no disrespect to this original poster whom I most certainly not (sic) not calling an industry shill".

You're talking out you're ass, lady, especially with the whole "black and white thinking" bullshit - you're the one using black and white thinking. Although, I'm not sure that I would call what you do "thinking". It's more like "baaaaaing".

Instead of throwing out the old "every idea has equal merit" card, why don't YOU be sensible about this and look at the fucking evidence. All the evidence - not just what you've read from some tin-foil asshat on an anti-vax website or some other bullshit by Jenny "you've seen my private parts so I must be a great scientist" McCarthy.

[Techn0Girl]

45. I actually said that you were NOT an industry shill...

I have no idea why you are so thin skinned or misreading what I wrote. It's there in black and white.
In fact you quoted me as saying just that in your rather hysterical message .

If you ever want to have a conversation without all the hysteria and drama feel free.

It's not only industry shills (of which there are plenty, mind you) who believe that Pharma has our best interests in mind so you are not alone. I'm sure quite a large chunk of the American public believes likewise. Me, I happen to take a more analytical view on things that the Pharmaceutical Inducstry tends to promote.

[trotsky]

23. Let the anti-vax loons waste their time and effort on thimerosal.

It's been removed from every routine childhood vaccine with NO associated reduction in autism rates. Case closed. The lone rabid squirrels who continue to gnaw on thimerosal as their evil of choice look more and more like the members of the lunatic fringe they are.

[SidDithers]

32. +1...nt

Sid

[EvolveOrConvolve]

35. Everytime we shoot down another of their "ideas"

they are forced to move onto other, even more ridiculous notions in an attempt to support their assbackward beliefs. As those notions get more ridiculous, they look more and more like like lunatics, and the public at large is less likely to view their anti-vax attempts as legitimate.

But, what the hell do I know - I prefer rationality over hysteria and facts over hyperbole.

[mhatrw]

36. Who is we? You mean the Eli Lilly scientist who tested the mercury blood levels of 33 kids

no sooner than 3 days after after thimerosal was injected in them at vaccines doses and then concluded that "thimerosal is safe" simply because the blood levels of mercury were below the arbitrary standard that FDA has set for safe levels of methylmercury?

For the full story on this glorious study, http://www.14studies.org/HG_9_details.html">read this.

One of the few researchers who studies the effects of ethyl mercury is Thomas Burbacher, PhD, professor of environmental and occupational health sciences and director of the infant primate research lab at the National Primate Research Center, University of Washington, Seattle. ...

"Just because it came out of the blood doesn't mean it is excreted from the body. It could have gone to the brain," Burbacher tells WebMD. "Although total mercury levels in the blood are lower following thimerosal exposure {than those following methyl mercury exposure}, mercury in the blood from thimerosal has an easier time getting to the brain than methyl mercury."

[EvolveOrConvolve]

42. Keep digging...

[HuckleB]

27. Study from Italy, released in January: New thimerosal study, altogether now…

http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1807

The drummer keeps on drumming...

[HuckleB]

28. And the drummer keeps on drumming...

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/357/13/1281

Not that we shouldn't repeat the studies, mind you...

[trotsky]

31. It's great to repeat studies, but...

at a certain point it becomes a waste of precious research money to continue disproving something that was never proven, when there are so many more things we could be doing with that funding.

[HuckleB]

34. Your point is well taken.

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

This week is our fourth quarter 2009 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
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[HuckleB]

38. Increase in autism due to change in definition, not MMR vaccine

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/pmc/articles/PMC544455/

Just one more...

[laconicsax]

39. Let's not ignore this gem:

"In Denmark, Dr Barbaresi noted, thiomersal was removed from vaccines in 1991, but the increase in autism continued until 2000."

But how could that be if thimerosal causes autism?

Denmark must be in the pocket of big-pharma and secretly re-introduced thimerosal into vaccines!

[SidDithers]

44. It's all the mercury in pickeled herring...

And akvavit, given to Danish infants.

Sid

[HuckleB]

46. The Increase in Autism Diagnoses: Two Hypotheses

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=95

[HuckleB]

47. Autism in kids more prevalent among wealthier parents, study finds

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/99128024.html