If workers knew the GOP/Employers killed retirement, they'd stop saving?

[papau]

PSCA Says Workers Should Disregard FRONTLINE Conclusions (The PSCA response is online at http://www.psca.org/frontline.html)

For more about PBS's Frontline program "Can You Afford to Retire" go to: http://www.pbs.org/frontline/retirement

You can view the PBS program online at: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/retirement/view/

Now, from the Profit Sharing/401(k) Council (PSCA) press release: "The program's conclusion that there will be no more retirement is not only incorrect, it is dangerous..If people believe that they will have to work until they die, they will stop saving for retirement”

PSCA felt there will be few long term workers under the GOP/Employers favored change to 401k's (aka separate accounts) from defined benefit plans in the future so the programs use of a 30 year comparison of defined benefit and defined contribution approaches in the Nebraska state pension system was a bad example to use.

PSCA also feels the Study results Mr. Hamilton cited of lower paid workers receiving a far lower return on their investments than higher paid workers, ostensibly because they made less desirable asset allocation decisions, is unfair because it was done in 1997 - a "highly unusual market period", plus the Vanguard Group reported that there is little or no difference in investment allocation or investment return based on participant income levels for the plans it funds.

PSCA concludes, "Contrary to the program’s conclusion, we have not reached the “end of retirement." - so folks please keep thos 401k's going and think well of your employer. Retirement has not ended under Bush - you just have to keep working at a much reduced wage.

[Sammy Pepys]

1. Well.....

People have trouble saving for retirement as it is. With that in mind, I think anyone who would stop saving just because they thought retirement was extinct probably wasn't saving much of anything to begin with.

And while I don't think retirement will ever cease to exist, I do think the nature of it is changing drastically. It used to be that everyone retired at a certain age (62, or something like that), and probably lived on some combination of social security and an employer pension which involved little maintenance on your part over the years. You lived another 10 years or so, and then called it a life.

Now people wield a lot more control over what occurs with their retirement arrangements. Moreover, lots of retirees continue to work part time by choice. The whole idea of retirement is a lot different now than it was.

[papau]

2. work part time by choice is great - this isn't by choice

It is all about being cheap and not having union push back.

[Sammy Pepys]

3. True...but what I'm saying is...

Retirement just doesn't follow the traditional pattern anymore. In that case, it may be extinct...but it's really not. It has a differenty meaning to the relatively younger generations. It doesn't necessarily mean you don't work anymore ever.

And if you're waiting for unions to push back, you're going to be waiting forever. I think retirment has better chance of surviving than they do, honestly.

[papau]

4. you may be correct as to unions in the US - another reason to move to

the EU or Canada.

Different meaning to "retirement" may be true - but again that was not by choice. Bring back defined benefit plans - funded defined benefit plans - and happy days are here again.

In the early 60's US Steel wanted to show earnings in a bad year - and chose to not put in the $405 million contribution suggest by the actuary. - they then showed earnings of something like $406 million. Union power even then was not enough to make that illegal - although that power did get ERISA passed and later it got FASB to issue FAS87 and 88 and still later Fas 132 and along the way the PBGC was established - all because we could not require Corporations to put aside a percentage of wages every year for pensions. Now the UK will finally require Corps to put aside 3% - low, but a start.

Corporate greed and disrespect for employee's - plus Corporate control of politics - is what has killed retirement in the US.

[Sammy Pepys]

5. I think it kind of was by choice....

...that the definition of retirement has changed somewhat. That's not to say everyone is going to get the retirement they want, but I do think that the changing method of retirement has been spurred on by younger generations who have not had the same types of working lives as their parents and grandparents.

I think this has a lot to do with the reason that wide-ranging pension plans may be over, at least on a large scale.