I am shocked

[backtoblue]

Shocked that in a forum where equal and civil rights are one of the most discussed themes, hardly anyone wants to address women's rights during National Women's History Month. When I post to the general discussion, someone always has a smart-ass remark and wants to change the subject around. I am starting to get frustrated and feel that no one cares anymore....

[Captain Hilts]

1. We're too busy fighting the 'bitch' wars on a so-called 'progressive' board.

Yeah, it sucks.

My posts ratifying the Universal Declaration of Human Rights sank like rocks too.

[backtoblue]

5. Help me understand

As a young lady, I must have been raised naive or chose ignorance to the disregard of women. I am no expert when it comes to women's historical triumphs, but I do know what is going on today. Forums such as DU should be the PERFECT medium to share beliefs in equality. Please let me have the link to your post on Universal Declaration of Human Rights - is it in your journal?

[ananda]

2. Yes full human rights for women is so important.

I agree that women's rights should be on the forefront
of everyone's agenda.

[BobRossi]

3. You have every right to be shocked.

There, feel better?

[Captain Hilts]

6. I'm not sure if this is sarcastic, or what, Bob. nt

[polmaven]

13. Are you in the wrong place?

Did you think maybe you were in GD????? I mean, that is where one would expect such a comment.

[ConcernedCanuk]

29. I believe you proved her point - falling into the "someone always has a smart-ass remark " category

.
.
.

To the OP

just ignore the BobRossi type on this board

and in the World

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

4. I've found that most people on here don't care

And, when the sexism was RAMPANT during the primaries, even most of the feminists were silent on the issue.

Real issues don't get discussed around here.

[biopowertoday]

7. you are right about that. Rush is the thing this week which is

so sad and depressing.
I do to other boards to talk of women's rights. too much dismissal or outright denial that sexism exists.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

8. There was a time

when the women's issues here at DU were dominated by an extremely doctrinaire and rigid group, and if you dared to deviate from their cant - which was that women were always the oppressed and the victims - you were vilified. So, predictably, people stayed away in droves.

That might account for the reluctance of folks to enter into such a discussion.

[backtoblue]

9. understandable

Yet, it is a bittersweet irony that we cannot even celebrate Women's History Month in general discussion because people have become so dismissive to the achievments of women and see us as "harking troublemakers". The sit-with-mouth-shut syndrome has not gone away....

[Tangerine LaBamba]

11. It's not that people

don't want to celebrate women's achievements. I'm a woman who was able to become a professional because Affirmative Action laws made my admission into professional school possible, so I have an acute understanding and appreciation for what we face daily.

That said, there are rigid and doctrinaire members of our fine sex who refuse to hear anything but total agreement with whatever they put forth, and woe unto the human being - male or female - who might disagree or even see things from a different perspective.

What I am trying - and failing, I think - to tell you is that it is not that a celebration of Women's History Month would be ignored because people don't care; it's because of some folks within the women's community, who mistakenly consider themselves the Keepers of the Feminist Flame, who have discouraged and closed down open and spirited exchanges.

As for me, I find the whole idea of a special month set aside for Women's History a laughable bit of condescension, meaningless unless those accomplishments are taught as part of a core school curriculum and incorporated into our daily lives. I did that by living my life as I wanted to, fighting all the way, and raising my daughters with that same spirit and understanding and responsibility.

[backtoblue]

12. well

Women's history should part of a school curriculum, but I just think that having an "excuse" to be loud and remember what it took to get the rights we do have is not such a bad thing. Having a whole month to have a conversation breaker into the subject might open up more avenues for changes that still need to be made.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

14. We don't need a month

Once you isolate a group, by definition, you make it outside the norm.

We're women, we're part of the world and our society, and we are every day. The whole point it to get up every day, go out, and do it again. That's how we make the changes. Talk is nice, but accomplishes nothing. We just have to do it and take it. No one's giving us anything, so we have to get out there and take it.

[Nikia]

24. In the lifetimes of many people alive today

government, the educational system, business, and society actively discriminated against women on the basis of gender. In the course of American history, women have had many legal rights for a short time. Even if sexist attitudes had suddenly changed, it would be right to have a women's history month for that reason alone. The fact, of corse, is that many people's attitudes haven't changed because people don't just give up such attitudes when the people in power grew up that way.
I don't know why DU considers radical Feminist such a horrible thing when we have radical Marxists and Anarchists here. People don't go around saying they turn people off from the Liberal cause like people say radical feminists turn people off from the Feminist cause.

[He loved Big Brother]

35. As they say, in a post-patriarchy, I'll be a post-feminist.

"As for me, I find the whole idea of a special month set aside for Women's History a laughable bit of condescension".

I don't. I didn't learn anything about women in any of my history classes. It was nothing but men. NOTHING. And don't give me that crap that women didn't really do anything historical. Being a conquerer isn't the only historically notable thing a person can do.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

10. They're still here

They just tend to post amongst themselves.

[Warpy]

17. Oh, jeez, the language police?

I stopped posting in the Feminism group years ago because of the language police. It seemed every thread was hijacked and dissected, usually unfairly. The forum had become both dull and contentious, a real achievement even for nit pickers.

[iverglas]

28. huh

their cant - which was that women were always the oppressed and the victims

I must have been thinking of you earlier today ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=341x14275#14299

I guess I can rest my case.

[Warpy]

15. The subject is frightening to males clinging to entitlement

and the fact that they're getting defensive suggests that they're finally admitting to that sense of entitlement on some level.

The left has always been plagued by sexism. We're always new women dealing with the same old men.

However, I have seen signs of progress over the last 50 years. The progress will be slow and with setbacks because of the misogyny deeply ingrained in the culture. However, nothing will stop it.

Someday we might not even need a National Women's History Month.

[backtoblue]

16. You have a point

I am just so frustrated with being considered second rate because of my gender. Maybe this is the reason women are prescribed anti-depressants more frequently than men - to calm down the riot. I was married once and my husband's preacher called me a "Jezebell" because I would not succum to my husband's every demand. A preacher basically called me an insubordinate whore because of my independence. Personally I think some men use religion to enslave women within a certain faith. I know sexism has very deep roots, but I am pissed and really want to do something to help.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

18. Religion is used to control....

That's what the purpose of organized religion is, all of them, and the women within the organizations are just as sexist towards other women as the men. That a preacher called you a name isn't surprising, given what I assume his beliefs were.

So what? Fuck 'em. Go out and live your life and make it a wonderful and independent one, picking your goals and values carefully and making way for others. That's what will help. Talk is cheap, albeit satisfying and affirming, but, in the end, in life, as in good fiction writing, you must show, not tell.

[backtoblue]

19. keeping quiet

Do you believe that by just going on and keeping my opinion to myself I am doing a favor to women? I am also an educated, professional woman and although I do not know how to fix the problem, I don't see how keeping silent will point women's rights in the forward direction. It was the women who made some noise that got the rights that we enjoy today.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

20. Where did you get the idea

that you should keep quiet? Or that I recommended that to you?

You got that dead wrong.

I recommended action. Doing things. If all you're going to do is talk, or, in this case, type, you're not making any difference or progress.

Best of luck to you.

[backtoblue]

21. wasn't tryin to be argumentative

I volunteer for the local battered women's shelter and I am a big sister at the boys and girls club. Talk is cheap, but this is the medium for such discussions.

[BoneDaddy]

42. Actually that is not it at all

I would love to see women find equality on all levels, bar none. You miss the point totally, entirely and continue to cling to this idea that progressive men refuse to give up their "entitlement". Wrong, wrong, wrong.

What I, and I suppose other men, are not willing to do is just sit back and listen to our gender debased by a group of angry women. Aint going to happen. Yet, if we say something that alters from the popular position or challenge stereotypes of men or some of the inflamatory comments about our gender, we get labeled sexist or misogynist. Crap.

[BoneDaddy]

43. Typical cowards

hiding behind victimhood

[backtoblue]

44. I am a coward, READ MY OTHER POST

I am not a victim, I am a survivor. In no way did I say men are bad and should be annihilated from earth.

Quite the contrary I love men.

I love the men that have compassion and dignity and the courage to stick up for the women in their lives when no one else will. I love the men who stand up against violence and I love the man who respects everyone, no matter their gender. The point of women speaking out is because we are looked at as nothing more than eye-candy, or punching bags for masculine insecurities.

Take my post for what its worth and quit hating.

[backtoblue]

45. why are you so angry??

I didn't say anything derogatory about men, I made a point that women's issues are either attacked or dismissed when posted in GD. You shouldn't have taken my concerns so personal.

[omega minimo]

22. Resistance is futile

[make me a sandwich]

23. i agree

Here you go, I totally agree

[backtoblue]

38. I think you may have stumbled into the wrong room

:eyes:

[Captain Hilts]

25. People on DU don't give a damn about sexism. nt

[DemBones DemBones]

26. It seems increasingly common to see the terms

douche, douchebag, and douchebaggery used here. I've been hearing that shit since the Sixties, am really tired of it, have started alerting on it and asking mods to ask Skinner to forbid use of the words at DU. It shows how little women are respected. Do we have to come up with our own insults to get men to think?

[Captain Hilts]

27. It's a term I hadn't heard in YEARS...until I got here. I doubt they care.

I mean, we're still fighting to get more avatars of Democratic women: Katharine Hepburn, Julia Child, Lauren Bacall, Myrna Loy, etc.

But we've got Marilyn Monroe and the rapist from Clockwork Orange!

[plantwomyn]

30. I notice it all the time.

Male insults are predominantly based on insinuating that another male has a female trait or is effeminate in some way. It seems the worst thing a male can be is female. Everything female is an insult. Even Son of a Bi4th. I've asked men to give me one insult they use that isn't based on feminising a man and they can't. Expect A hole.

[whathehell]

31. Yes, it's quite Ugly...but wait!...if you mention this, some one will

accuse you of being part of the "language police".

Funny how no one screams about "the language police" when it comes to using respectful language (instead of slurs) which stem from racism or homophobia...But women?..Oh, Hell....What are you?..The Language police?

There's a decided double standard here with regard to showing sensitivity and respect for women -- Even, with many women themselves, which I find both odd and depressing.

[He loved Big Brother]

36. I use the word, and I'm a feminist

I was brought up in the era of "douching is gross, unnecessary, and harmful enough to be avoided at all costs." So I see a douchebag as something I won't let near me. Hence, I call people douchebags. As in, people who I find gross, unnecessary, and more trouble than they're worth.

Just one feminist's explanation. :-(

[iverglas]

37. that's what we in the language biz

might call a back-formation. Make a word, then produce a justification for it.

I love my cigarettes, which used to be called - and still are, in England for instance - fags.

So I think I'll call homosexual men 'fags', because I love them too.

[backtoblue]

39. I don't see any difference between "teabag" and "douchbag"

Both are meant as an insult and I believe are both childish and unnecessary terms given when "asshole" or "f%ckface" is not permitted.

That being said, I don't think of "douchbag" of much of a woman-hater term either, just tacky and unnecessary.

[He loved Big Brother]

40. It isn't quite the same

But to be gender neutral, I usually stick with asshole, asswipe, fucker and...douchebag. And I can't stand the genitalia insults. I don't say prick, dick, pussy, etc. I never quite understood the reason for those.

[tinkerbell41]

32. I feel your pain.

I work in the stone age field of construction. Most of the women I meet refuse to even acknowledge the crap we put up with. Some will commiserate with you but most act like they are there to please the men. We have one who has been used as a mouthpiece in the Local. She has nerve to say most women in the trade don't take the time to learn it, and she hasn't experienced much sexism or harassment at all. I call BULLSHIT!! Most of us never get to learn anything because we are not shown or forced to do "office type stuff" or clean jobsite. It's kind of like once they get taken care of they deny everything, and feel no sisterhood. I listened to some radio program about this where Women will not stick together in the working world they see each other as competition. I've been called a radical because I go to do my work and ignore the stupid racist sexist jokes, and call them out. Jesus most of the women get pissy if you ask if they have a women's port-a-john on site. We are second class citizens the world over it reaches every race and nationality. Women have been in the field for at least 25 yrs and they act like this is all new to them, "Gee I've never worked with a woman before" "Well we are here and not going away any time soon"

[backtoblue]

33. It's sad

but I know exactly what you're talking about. I am an embalmer/funeral director which is just like construction when it comes to supposed "equality". I encounter daily taunts and have even been called a secretary by my male co-workers. (There's nothing wrong with being a secretary, it has just become a slur and a dismissive title to women) Some women that I have worked with are so driven by their desire to succeed that they stomp on others and give in to sexism in order to achieve their goals. It's dog-eat-dog in the workplace and in alot of instances it is easier for women to walk on another woman than to stand up to a man. (generalization, not everyone is like this) Women are conditioned to believe that you must act like a man in order to be respected as a man.

[tinkerbell41]

34. Cool Job!!

You are right. Secretary (the ultimate putdown) My first year my foreman wanted me to Fax stuff for him and do paperwork, I had never done that stuff before never seen a fax machine, he was
aggravated to say the least.

[GOB2K]

41. agree

you go girl