This idea of trying to further legalize prostitution just makes me sick

[tonysam]

A snip of what I consider is a revolting piece:


2. What do you think the negatives would be if sex-for-money were widely legalized?

We are a society that is still hung up on sex, as Alison Gaulden of Planned Parenthood said in an earlier blog post. Sexual violence, domestic violence, sexual harassment, abuse and coercion are still dominant social problems today. The issues of violence against women are sometimes thought to be caused by the sale of sex. Or to say it another way, that selling sex is a form of exploitation and violence against women. Yet to assume that worker exploitation, objectification, and the physical use of one’s body are unique to sex work is very short-sighted. But other industries that are legal must provide basic protections to workers, follow laws, and can call on police as allies. Criminalizing sex workers is discriminatory and harmful; it is our policies that discount sex-for-money as a viable job that are oppressive.

Now, these problems will not go away by simply changing laws. Social stigma is lessened, though. When an act is legal, as we have shown above, it improves the quality of life for workers. Eliminating criminalized prostitution would provide added protections and rights for sex workers.

Many of the problems surrounding sex work are problems that affect all workers: economic hardship, social marginalization, and problems related to a lack of labor rights and inhospitable work conditions. Without broader social change, stronger labor laws, and tougher enforcement of the ones we have, there will continue to be exploitation and abuse. Legalizing sexual commerce (to join the ranks of existing legal adult industries, like Nevada’s brothels, the porn industry and erotic dance) would be the first step of many toward securing basic rights for sex workers that other workers already have, such as union protection, right-to-work, and coverage by the Occupational Health & Safety Association (OSHA).


More

Never mind human dignity, human rights violations, and the idea it is okay to exploit others for one's own selfish reasons.

[Taverner]

1. Um yeah, thats it we need a nanny state to "protect" women

Fuck that...

Legalize Prostitution!

Let women take charge of their own bodies, not the state!

[Hannah Bell]

3. yes, it's all about feminism. (not).

like there are no male prostitutes.

[Taverner]

9. Again, I don't see how prohibition is helping women

Go to any country where CS is legal - there are health regulations, mandatory hazard pay and even paid vacations

Make it illegal and its not like CS is going away...

[tonysam]

13. Who is talking about arresting the women? Go after the assholes

who exploit women and even men. Sweden has done this, and the incidence of prostitution has diminished greatly.

[Taverner]

16. Trust me, there will still be johns

It will jsut go more underground

Like Heroin

And what you are saying is one big slap to women, saying they need our "protection"

[Hannah Bell]

26. male prostitution = illegal also, so why do you keep pushing the phony feminist meme?

[rantormusing]

32. Go after neither

What's next arresting people who go to strip clubs. You might want to be more specific with your charge of exploitation, I've known people on both sides of this transaction, hell, i'll share a story.

A lesbian friend of mine likes going to strip clubs that you would usually find straight guys going to, once or twice i was in the position where i had to tag along. Being a gay male, i was disgusted and board out of mind, my female friend objectifies woman, it's a pain in the ass, but i love her so i deal. This lady, a stripper, comes up to me and asks me if i want a dance. I'm sorry to say i was a little curt in my reply, "no thanks I'm gay, not interested."

"So am i," she says, and walks away from my grouchy butt.

I don't really believe most people who engage in prostitution, even woman, do so out of some form of exploitation. Some may be desperate for money, but i blame our economic system that keeps people down, not their male clients.

[tonysam]

6. Yeah, right they control their bodies

The pimps who run the legal brothels call the shots, not the women. I don't exactly call being a human garbage can for as many as ten men a day "freedom."

[Taverner]

8. Not all hookers have pimps. Most are private contractors.

And no, the legal brothels do not call all the shots

You have to stop taking notes from Jerry Falwell, comrade!

[tonysam]

10. They aren't "private contractors"

Women do this because they have no other choices. But it appears "libertarians" think it is a man's right to stick his dick in any woman or guy as long as money is exchanged. Hey, no muss, no fuss.

It's sick. I don't really think people like you have ever really thought through what prostitution IS.

[Taverner]

17. Bullshit

I actually did Health Education for CSWs in Thailand. After Peace Corps, I did it in the tenderloin in SF. Even the lowest cost hookers make more than I do now

Just most of them spent it on clothes and blow

[bluestateguy]

22. Some people have been forced to deliver pizza or pump gas to make it in this economy

Who do you think is making more money? The pizza man or the lady working at a legal brothel?

BTW, Heidi Fleiss tried to open a ranch with male prostitutes to service women, but she could not get a license because she had a felony on her record.

[Warpy]

24. Bullshit. Women do sex work because it PAYS

I'm all for legalization and regulation and getting the pimps out of it.

It is always going to exist. Having the state on the side of the sex workers works a hell of a lot better than forcing it underground.

Good sex workers provide a lot more than orifices and are paid accordingly. It's high time we gave them legal protection instead of harassment.

[virgogal]

2. Flame away but I think it should be legal and regulated.

[tonysam]

4. No, it shouldn't. Attack it from the demand side, and it will

be relegated to the fringe where it belongs.

The notion it is a "victimless" crime is the biggest lie out there. These "professors" are trading on the same lies as you two believe.

I blame the media for glorifying what amounts to a human rights violation.

And yes, I live in Nevada, and I have met a few of these "career" women. Their lives are a mess.

[Sinti]

11. Attack it from the side of never letting a person be in a position

of having to sell their body to make a living, and you don't have to worry about the law. Decriminalize prostitution itself and go after abuse of human beings in the sex trade.

[tonysam]

15. Distinction without a difference

Go after the johns and the pimps--not the prostitutes--and the problem is largely solved.

[Sinti]

23. I accept that selling another human being's body should be against the law

but they will call themselves "body guards". So, there's a built-in loophole. I take it you don't think people deserve to live in a world where selling their body is not really an option they would ever even consider?

[Hannah Bell]

27. +1

[Taverner]

12. Bad logic, comrade

Just because their lives are a mess, doesn't mean its because of the job

I know a lot of professional rock and rollers - and their lives are a mess. Should we ban rock and roll?

[He loved Big Brother]

30. Way to paint the painted ladies one hue.

A lot of people's "lives are a mess". Career prostitutes to computer programmers.

[He loved Big Brother]

31. As for going after supply OR demand

Prostitutes are more popular than Jesus and the Beatles put together, always have been, always will be. Good luck eradicating it on the demand side, or even thinking it's "fringe".

[rd_kent]

35. Please, your anecdotes do NOT represent all sex workers.

Go ask the women in Amsterdam if their lives are a mess. Same in Germany, or anywhere else prostitution is legal and regulated.

Going after the "demand" side is akin to making sex illegal and will only make it that much more dangerous for all involved. The bottom line is that in a legal and regulated industry, women have the power of CHOICE to work when and where and for whom they want. Just because YOU do not approve does not mean that others should have to follow YOUR moralistic view.

[Fire1]

19. Ditto. n/t

[bluestateguy]

5. I guess my body, my choice is inapplicable in this case

I am pro-choice.

I am pro choice for any adult concerning: abortion, prostitution, gambling, doing drugs, legally marrying the adult of your choice, and owning a gun (in fact there are too many gun laws as it stands).

The Nevada model works well. Legalized, taxed and regulated. The state has very tough human trafficking laws, and prostitution on the streets is not allowed.

[tonysam]

7. Prostitution is a human rights violation

I live in Nevada, and no, it isn't what people think it is. The women live in almost slave-like conditions.

But believe the hogwash from the media which glorified pimps like tax fugitive Joe Conforte. That is your right.

[Taverner]

14. "Slave like conditions" - WTF????? Life is not a Jerry Falwell Movie ya know

Um, I have no use talking to you since now you're just MAKING SHIT UP

[tonysam]

18. Taverner, I LIVE here in Nevada

Quit buying the media myth. The whorehouses--brothels--are located miles away from urban areas. The women are NOT allowed to have cars or to leave except during their periods. They have to take whatever client wants them, and they could be having sex with these creeps with as many as ten a day.

Don't hand me the bullshit this shit is glamorous--it isn't.

[Taverner]

20. Don't YOU hand ME this bullshit

If its so slavelike, how come they make more than doctors?

[rd_kent]

36. It is exactly what we think it is.

Please provide evidence of your claims. Your personal opinion does not count.

[iverglas]

42. fyi

Not that I expect you're actually interested in information.

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=5734951

Sheriff Young believes the practice of true slave labor may be a widespread problem in the Las Vegas Valley and he says he knows it reaches into prostitution.

"If you look up and down Spring Mountain, you will see a number of massage parlors. Many of those are fronts for prostitution," Sheriff Young said.

The sheriff says human traffickers shuttle women against their will in and out of Asia to work in the parlors.

"More often than not the women who are in there are part of some sort of human trafficking scheme," Young said. Now, Metro will have the money to crack down on those rings.

Human trafficking in another jewel in the crown of legalized prostitution.

Nooooo. How could that be?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Nevada

Child prostitution is also a problem in Nevada. Las Vegas was identified by the FBI as one of 14 cities around the country with high rates of child prostitution. Las Vegas Metro Police say roughly 400 children are picked off the streets from prostitution each year.

The U.S. Justice Department has also named Las Vegas among the 17 most likely destinations for human trafficking.

And shurely there is no connection between the widespread attitude in a society that human beings - women - are objects available for rental and the generalization of that attitude to include children and the emergence of a market for buying and selling human beings.


First the Netherlands (see my other post), now Nevada. The living proof that legalizing prostitution does NOT eliminate abusive forms of prostitution and human trafficking, and in fact appears to foster them.

[SwampG8r]

45. prostitution is illegal in las vegas in any form

so to compare the brothels with the strip is not quite right
compare the conditions of the brothel worker to anyone you cite
whether asian slave or underage hooker working in an unregulated underground las vegas
and the brothel worker in a regulated business comes out way aheadf in the not being exploited category

[msongs]

21. hmm does this include marry a man for his money? nt

[frebrd]

25. Don't worry, this puritannical country will never be willing........

to allow women to make their own decisions about their own bodies!

:puke:

[WVRICK13]

28. I Have Never Engaged The Services

of a prostitute nor had one night stands. To me that is merely masturbation with complications. When traveling through Europe and when consulting with the Dutch government I noticed that countries where they had legalized prostitution the women and men were less abused by things like pimps and madams. They had good health care, in fact it is mandated. They often work for themselves and rent space for their business. While I do not get the concept of paying for passionless sex I have to say legalized prostitution is better for the prostitute than when it is illegal. If someone chooses prostitution as a career they need to make as much money as soon as possible since the goods have a short shelf life. There are probably as many reasons to enter the profession in a legal setting as there are practitioners. I think the Jonhs are as sad as the prostitutes. What does it say about you when you have to buy sex?

[noamnety]

29. Actually the human rights violations are worse where it's legal

because those become "safe zones" for human traffickers, and the number of sex slaves goes up, not down, if prostitution can be done in the open. (more customers, less prosecutions - they become trafficking hubs.)

[rd_kent]

37. Can you back up that claim with proof or evidence?

[iverglas]

38. are you actually interested in the reality?

If you actually were interested, you'd be doing your research. You would want to know before you adopted a policy position yourself. If you don't know, shall I assume you have not taken any position? Or that you just don't give a shit?

I actually addressed that issue recently -- and had wanted to thank the poster who raised it here, but didn't get around to it until you posted your worthless question.

http://prostitution.procon.org/viewanswers.asp?questionID=000243

"Does legal prostitution lead to human trafficking and slavery?"

Two sides of the issue. The US State Dept says yes, the The Bureau of the Dutch National Rapporteur on Trafficking in Human Beings says no. ... Well, it did in 2005. The Dutch have kind of changed their minds on that one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_Netherlands

Prostitution in the Netherlands is legal and regulated. Operating a brothel is also legal. In the last few years, a significant number of brothels and "windows" have been closed because of suspected criminal activity.

... When the Dutch government legalized prostitution in 2000, it was to protect the women by giving them work permits, but some fear that this business cannot be normalized. Recently, officials have noticed an increase in violence centered around this irregular industry, and have blamed this increase on the illegal immigration of individuals into Amsterdam, to participate in the sex industry. Prostitution has remained connected to criminal activities, which has led the authorities to take several measures, including detailed plans to help the prostitutes quit the sex trade and find other professions. In response to the problems asociated with the involvement of organized crime into the sex trade, the Dutch government has decided to close numerous prostitution businesses.

... The Netherlands is a primary country of destination for victims of human trafficking. The UNODC (UN Office on Drugs and Crime) produced a report which showed that Netherlands is one of the top destinations for victims of human trafficking; countries that are major sources of trafficked persons include Thailand, China, Nigeria, Albania, Bulgaria, Belarus, Moldova and Ukraine.

Currently, human trafficking in the Netherlands is on the rise, according to figures obtained from the National Centre against Human Trafficking. The report shows a substantial increase in the number of victims from Hungary and China. There were 809 registered victims of human trafficking in 2008, 763 were women and at least 60 percent of them were forced to work in the sex industry. All victims from Hungary were female and were forced into prostitution.

... Many victims of human trafficking are led to believe by organized criminals that they are being offered work in hotels or restaurants or in child care and are forced into prostitution with the threat or actual use of violence. Estimates of the number of victims vary from 1000 to 7000 on a yearly basis. Most police investigations on human trafficking concern legal sex businesses. All sectors of prostitution are well represented in these investigations, but particularly the window brothels are overrepresented.

At the end of 2008, six people were convicted in what prosecutors said was the worst case of human trafficking ever brought to trial in the Netherlands. Experts said the case could have an impact on the Dutch prostitution policy. Jan van Dijk, an organized crime and victimology expert at the University of Tilburg, said "The honeymoon of the new prostitution legislation is over; we are really reconsidering whether we're on the right track".

Kind of a case in point, eh?

The most famous example of legal prostitution in the world, held up by all and sundry as a model of what modern, tolerant, progressive societies do ... recognized as a major market for women trafficked into the sex trade.

Huh, eh?

[rd_kent]

39. Interesting. Thats food for thought.

Thanks for posting that.

[iverglas]

40. well you're very welcome

[rd_kent]

41. See, I am not always a big meanie!

I AM open to leaning something new.....

[Laura902]

33. Very difficult

The circumstances are usually unknown and female prostitutes may be trying to feed their families or themselves. I don't believe in legalizing prostitution but the real criminals who pay for these services need to be held accountable first.

[Ukonkivi]

34. Attack the problem, not the symptom.

Selling sex should be as legal as selling everything else, in my opinion. As long as you're selling yourself.
Though I find the idea of selling such a thing to be silly.

What should be targeted is the double standards that lead to mostly female prostitutes and male clients who seek them.
As well obviously, as the causes of abuse of prostitutes.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ambreim80]

44. whats the difference?

i do think legalising prostitution would make our society even more sex-obsessed and perverted then it already is, but hey.. how is this any different than flirting with a man to get dinner and a movie out of him, right, girls? ;)