Calling a woman a girl

[Recursion]

Why do adult, professional women (mostly it seems to be a 20-something thing) insist on referring to other women as "girls"? I really think this is a consciousness-raising issue that has spread more among men than among women. I don't really know many men who would say "the girl that works in accounting" but I know plenty of young-ish women who will.

[Warpy]

1. Same reason blacks use the "n word"

Some things are marginally acceptable within a group but completely mannerless when used by people outside the group.

Get it?

[Recursion]

2. *shrug* if nobody's hurt by it it's not my place to complain

And I'm really not asking for permission to say "girl" or anything. A conversation I just had just kind of struck me as strange.

[The Second Stone]

3. News flash

most adult females in this country are pleased to refer to themselves, each other and be referred to as "girls" in casual conversation. I see it constantly. "Woman" is more formal and used in politically correct circles.

[niyad]

28. I don't know the sort of people to whom you refer. NONE of the women I know use "girl" rather than

woman.

"a GIRL is a female child. to accept being called "girl" is to accept being treated as a child"

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

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[Tuesday Afternoon]

4. why use two syllables when one will do?

call me lazy, I don't care.

:shrug:

[Recursion]

7. I still don't get why people say "double-u double-u double-u"

when "world wide web" has one-third the syllables.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

21. becausewebsites begin with "www" not "worldwideweb"

ie: www.democraticunderground.com -or- worldwideweb.democraticunderground.com

[ulaes]

23. True

"African American" is a tongue twister compared to "black."

[Tunkamerica]

5. I hear women call men boys, women guys, girls ladies

and every other variation.

My personal opinion is that we grew up using girls and boys and it seems most natural. I hardly ever think of myself as a Man, more as a guy. I assume it's the same for some women.

[Recursion]

6. I guess "girl" is the apposite for "guy"

Or maybe "gal", but that sounds too hick.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eilen]

8. How about "boys will be boys" ? nt

[Recursion]

9. As a guy I don't really think calling me a "boy" is historically oppressive

Unless you knew I was half-black (which almost nobody does by looking) and were talking racially.

Then again I just called myself "half-black" rather than "biracial" or "of mixed race", which maybe is a parallel to a woman saying "girl". *shrug*

[The Second Stone]

12. Trust me Mr. President,

we all know.

[Xipe Totec]

10. Because we live in a society that worships youth nt

[Recursion]

11. Woah. That hadn't even crossed my mind.

Good point.

[raccoon]

18. I don't think that's the reason; I think it has to do with status. nt

[musette_sf]

13. My manager sent an email message to his staff

(all female) regarding the decoration of the cubicle of a team member scheduled to return from maternity leave, addressing us as "you girls".

Not worth getting too worked up over, but we are all business analysts in systems support, not the admin pool. And somehow, I think he would have thought twice before sending something similar to the admin pool.

And then I watch "Mad Men", and remember back when I had my first desk job in 1970, when the NYT still had employment classified ads by gender. There were a lot of years where a female in business had to be skilled at the fine art of the quick and witty, not-completely-unkind but definitely one-up comeback, that let the guys get a laugh on their transgressing pal, but also reminded them that one shouldn't dish it out if one can't take it.

It's much nicer these days, especially in a non-gender-specific job, working in a very progressive geo area at a progressive company, that I haven't had to even think about stupid de facto sexism for years. The email message in question ended up being more of a rueful laugh at days thankfully gone by, than a truly actionable offense.

[uncommon]

15. "but we are all business analysts in systems support, not the admin pool" - as if this matters?

Administrative workers with vaginae are still women, not girls.

[musette_sf]

16. I thought about that when I posted

but left it as is, because I was talking about the MANAGER's thought process, not MINE.

An important distinction.

The members of the admin pool (and I have been there, too) still have cause to be more defensive about being addressed by diminutives. A person might indeed think twice before using diminutive language with admins. THEY might say something, where I would not.

Way to be misinterpreted..... :-(

[Iris]

14. I'd have to say, it's better than "females"

I HATE when people use "female" instead of "woman."

That said, once I hit 40, I was more comfortable saying "woman" or "women" and even "young women" when I am talking about 20something women.

[seabeyond]

17. iris, i use female when i am talking women/girl. some subjects

it includes both but i dont want to type out both, but seperate is what they are.

why do you hate female.

[raccoon]

19. Preach it, sister! This is one of my pet peeves.

I'm close to 60. Call me woman, call me "active adult," call me "little old lady," but don't call me girl.

And I don't call other women girls, either.

[femrap]

25. I'm in my late 50's as well....

I remember when I graduated from college and entered the work force in a very-male dominated field of engineering...I worked very hard to educate my lame co-workers to use the word, 'woman' not 'girl.'

When they would refer to a 'girl,' I'd ask if they were talking about their daughter or granddaughter.

In fact, I just educated some dude about this a couple of weeks ago. When someone says 'girl,' I envision in my mind a child. I explained that. And he actually thanked me.

I think the MSM has had a lot to do with making 'girl' a cute thing to say. :puke:

I don't want to be called a 'little old lady' either. I'd get 'fat old lady.' Someone called me a lady once and I retorted, 'I'm no fucking lady.' :rofl:

[niyad]

29. you can call me bitch, a title I wear proudly.

[Nikia]

20. I made the switch to women when I was i college

Because everyone referred to us as women. Maybe this isn't the case in all colleges. Some young women who did not go to college may be stuck in the girl mindset of high school. It bothers me more when men use "girls", especially when describing older women too. I have encounter a number of mostly older men doing this at my workplaces.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

22. females saying "girl" is the sams as males saying "guys"

As a guy, I'd never refer to someone as "boy". It's kind of demeaning/condescending. Likewise, I'd never refer to someone as "girl". I'd always use guy/man/lady/woman.

[smileyface]

24. Bad habit, probably

I'm one of those 20-somethings, and I usually refer to my peers (other early 20-somethings) as boys or girls. I think it's because I'm pretty fresh out of school and don't really think of myself or others in my age group as adults yet. I understand it's supposed to be "woman"/"man" for everyone over 18, but if I'm not consciously thinking about it, "girl"/"boy" slips right out.

Anyway, "girl" doesn't bother me, but "lady" always has.

[Green_Lantern]

26. I always hear men refering to women as "girl"

Such as "this girl I like" or "I think she's a sweet girl" typically if it's someone in their age range or younger.

If it is someone over their age range they will refer to the person as a woman or lady.

I don't think it is condescending unless the guy treats them like a child.

[iverglas]

27. yeesh

Reading some of the posts in this thread, I thought maybe I'd tumbled back into the 1950s.

Let us all pause for a moment and consider what the response (of the person in question, of ourselves, and of the world at large) would be if someone referred to a male African-American adult as a boy.

That's really the only answer needed to the question of whether to call women girls, I think.

The use of the word for a child, to refer to or address an adult or adults, is demeaning. Not everyone who uses or used those words intends or intended to demean, but that is the effect, and very often the intention. The way to avoid sounding like you're intending to demean even if you aren't: just don't do it. It's easy.

(The same goes for addressing female adults as "Miss", all the "Don't call me ma'am" handwringers notwithstanding.)

Is "girl" the counterpart of "guy"? Nope. What's interesting there is that there really is no female counterpart of "guy". Or of "chap", or "fellow".

[niyad]

30. I think "gal" is the closest counterpart.