A rant about girls' clothes, toys, shoes.

[politicat]

WTF is the thing with pink and pastels?

I know that there are fabrics out there appropriate to baby skin that come in other colors than effin' pink and lavender because they're used to make the boy clothes across the aisle. I know they make clothes that girls can crawl and walk in because there are boy clothes that are available.

And what's wrong with the shoes?? Boy baby shoes have real soles that grip and and help them walk while girl shoes are... girly. Slick soles, hard, patent leather.... AUGH!!!

And the toys. Pink, pink, pink and more pink. Nothing that's really visually stimulating, nothing that's good for teaching spatial reasoning, and the building toys are all marketed towards boys. I'm pissed with Lego for failing to market to girls and parents of girls. Their commercials only show boys. I know I played with Lego. So why is it so difficult to present their toys to girls? Don't they realize they're missing half their market?

Is there a market for girls' clothes and shoes in bright, bold colors that don't make infants into sex-kittens? I like some of the Hot Topic baby things, but many of them are kind of sexual for infants and toddlers. I'm getting really tired of not being able to find things that are appropriate for my 9 month old niece.

Pcat

[Reverend_Smitty]

1. But but...

If she doesn't wear pink, how the hell is she supposed to grow up to be a good Christian Stepford wife??? hmmmmmm?

[politicat]

5. Well... she's got a pagan mom and dad and atheist/agnostic aunties & unks.

So Christianity is kind of a not bloody likely....

Even her grannie, Xtian Stepford Honorable Mention 1999 (not my mother, my sister's MIL) is getting sick of buying our girl pink, in part because it makes her look blotchy. :eyes:

Sigh....

Pcat

[Sandpiper]

2. I've always thought toys were very insidious in enforcing gender roles

What sort of toys are marketed to little boys? Toy guns, tanks, warplanes, ships, soldiers, etc.

What sort of toys are marketed to little girls? Dolls, doll houses, tea sets, easy bake ovens, etc.

[politicat]

6. Exactly. I'm so annoyed about this, I'm trying to think how to create

gender neutral toys and clothes and market them. And I'm not that type of build a business person.

PCat

[Nikia]

10. Gender at early ages is a social thing

Humans rely on learning much more than other animals as far as behavior goes. Larger doses of feminizing and masculinyzing hormones don't come into effect as much until puberty. If society did not do their best to enforce gender roles, these little children might behave adrogynously and we can't have that. Of course, children do see women holding a greater variety of roles now more than ever. As a result, it is much more important that girls receive overly feminine toys and clothing so they will learn their female role better.
Yeah, I played with blocks, legos, and even a couple toy vehicles when I was little. I really didn't understand why these things were considered maculine or why I wouldn't want to play with them.

[Kipepeo]

40. I used to babysit a 5 year old who

was a big Power Rangers fan. He asked me what my favorite color was once and when I said Blue he told me that was a boy's color and laughed. I asked him what were the colors for girls and he named off only Pink and Yellow (which, incedentally, were the female Power Rangers colors).

I think that's when I realized how insidious it was. He was only 5 years old, but gender divisions in colors and toys were something that defined the world...that he had already picked up on and accepted as truth and as a given.

[Maple]

3. This year , for gifts, I saw

a pink plastic riding motorcycle for little girls, and genuine tools for adult women...in pink. Hammer, wrench, screwdrivers, saw etc...all with pink handles, in a pink case.

So I guess it says it's okay for women to ride motorcycles and repair or build things...as long as everything is pink.

:puke:

[politicat]

4. The mind boggles.

Matching sets of tools in... pink?

[Maple]

8. Yup

I nearly dropped the damn catalogue. Real stuff too. I thought it was some kind of joke gift, but no...and the ad was quite serious about it.

[tillary adams]

7. It just gets worse

I noticed about 5 years ago when I went to buy a bicycle at toys-r-us. The girls bikes were pink and had pictures of Barbie, while the boys bikes were black and looked like motorcycles. It was like a stereotypical version of ultra-femininity and hypermasculinity perpetrated on 7 year olds! No red and blue bikes, like in the old days. Finally, I went to a real bicycle store, and after some searching was able to find a red girls bike.

[absolutezero]

15. That can be annoying

I've got young cousins, it's really hard to find gifts around xmas that aren't pink for them.

Welcome to DU :hi:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

43. Hi, Tillary, and welcome to DU!

:hi:

[ET Awful]

9. It's to keep dumbasses from walking up and saying

"How old is he?" until she reaches puberty :)

[Pithlet]

13. You would think

However, everyone always thinks my 13 month old is a little girl. Even when he's wearing blue shirts with dump trucks on them. He has curly blond hair and big blue eyes with sweeping lashes, which I guess everyone equates with "girl". I don't know.

[kslib]

11. Went toy shopping for my 5yr old niece

She wanted a Barbie. I was looking for those Barbies with careers. Like Doctor Barbie (or, *gasp* maybe a mechanic Barbie!), all I could find were these Barbies with almost ass-bearing skirts and spiked boots, skimpy halter tops and tons of makeup. The only career Barbie I could find was the one that worked at Piercing Pagoda. Not to mention the body image message. Um, she got Dora instead, and was still thrilled. Her mom (conservative at the least) thanked me for getting her this doll because she hasn't been able to find a Barbie with appropriate clothing either. GRRR! What's with that? Not to mention the sexy clothes ("sexy") they make for KINDERGARTEN GIRLS! She likes blue, and damned if I could find any girl dolls/toys in that color. Well, this was a rant, and I'm done now. Oh, wait, no I'm not. At Thanksgiving, the kid's grandpa took away her little brother's (he's, like, 1) stuffed teddy bear, because he didn't want the kid to grow up "girlie." I almost died!!! His mother gave it back to him, of course. He's getting a big pastel green bear for Xmas from me, and my niece is getting a doctor play kit, not the pastel pink one with hearts, the blue "boy" one. Ugh. Toys suck.

[wildeyed]

12. I don't remember what I did about the baby clothes.

I think I just went with the pink, although I was also able to find nice spring green and other pastels. I also buy jeans and overalls for the boys section and then pair them with girly tee shirts.

Trying to buy nice boy clothes is tough, too. Navy blue, hunter green or gray are the only choices. Everything has trucks or motorcycles on it. Kind of depressing, actually. How 'bout a yellow or red with a duck or teddy bear or something? I guess it is not considered masculine enough for a two year old. Geez.

Now I have two, a girl and a boy. I would like to pass down things like jammies to the boy, but it is nearly impossible to find anything that is non-gender. I guess they just want you to buy twice.

As far as toys, I just buy the legos and blocks for my daughter. She ADORES them. She is good with fine motor skills and makes the most astounding structures.

[Cerridwen]

14. Firstly, I thought primary colors are more visually stimulating

for young children; pastels being more restive. So the whole pastel thingy kind of reeks to high heaven of a way to keep our children calm rather than rambunctious and energetic. I'm not a psychologist so this could all just be bunk in my head. :)

Now, she may be a bit old for your 9 mo. old niece, and she's still too thin and extrememly white; but meet Feral Cheryl;

http://www.feralcheryl.com.au/ She's marketed as the anti-Barbie. And her politics seem appropriate for this forum.

Disclaimer: I have no financial or personal ties to this product; I found her while I was clicking around for something else and bookmarked the site for future reference.

[amandae]

16. I'm tired of the clothing that makes small children look like

"hoochie-mamas." I tried last year to find dresses for my Kindergartener that were just dresses, come down a little past the knees (so she doesn't flash everyone when she runs on the playground) and long-sleeved so that they were warm enough for her to be comfortable in during the winter. I searched before finally finding ONE store that didn't have dresses with slits up the side (for a 5/6-year-old!!!) or see-through parts to it. And OMG the sizes of the skirts out there for kids now!!! They're micro-skirts!! It drives me nuts!!!

It's even worse when you see these 11+ year old kids (some even younger) who walk around in these short, short, shorts with "hottie" written on the butt of them. And I've seen these girls WITH THEIR MOMS!! WTF are these moms thinking??? :wtf:

[WildClarySage]

17. We went shopping yesterday

for our niece's christmas present. I wanted to get her something fun, but all the 'girl' toys seemed to be intent on sending her the message that her career options in the future are limited to being a skimpy dressed fashion model or a mommy. We were so disgusted. I guess I'll look for clothes for her, but I happen to know she's getting mostly clothes for christmas (wonder why!) I wanted to find her a chemistry set, or something to challenge her brain- I found a few which weren't really appropriate for her age in the aisle which included RC cars, models and action figures, well away from the 'girly' toys (all the pink stuff) as if to discourage girls or their parents from finding them.

[seaj11]

18. For any child, I'd go with

books. Good books, as long as they're not aimed at turning girls in Stepford Wives and boys into macho men, are good for any child.

[liontamer]

19. I like pink

a lot. but if you're really worried buy her boys clothes. It's not as though boy and girl babies have such markedly different body types :eyes:
buy her boy toys too if you want. It doesn't really make much of a difference.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. When my nephews were little and I didn't want to get them

macho-macho man clothes, I used to go to Gymboree. They haven't been Gymboree-age for a while, but as I recall, they had a lot of gender-neutral clothes for little kids.

[kalibex]

21. Online kid's clothing retailer I like:

http://www.growgrowgrow.com/Styles.asp

Not the cheapest, but cute, & with a much wider variety of colors....

-B

[chicaloca]

22. Another online store for kids' clothing...

http://www.littlelefties.com

They're also not super-cheap, but well worth it.

One shirt for girls says, "Barbie is a doll, not a goal," and another for girls says "Future President." B-)

[Pithlet]

24. I'm getting this one for my 14 month old son:

http://littlelefties.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=BD_O&Category_Code=O

Damn. I wished I'd seen this earlier. I would have dressed him in this just in time for my fundy relatives visiting for Christmas!

[atommom]

23. It creeps me out too. You can spot the Girl Aisles from across the

store ... they're a sea of pink and lavendar. Yuck. I don't remember toys being that way when I was young, but then I always had a great disdain for "girl toys" anyway. I wanted horses, dinosaurs, microscopes, etc. If I had a little girl today I'd steer her in the same direction. This hyperfeminization of girlhood just gives me the creeps.

[sans qualia]

25. I was just talking about this the other day with a friend of mine

Apparently, if I don't force my kids into pink or blue clothes depending on their sex, they won't develop a strong gender identity. :shrug: As she knows perfectly well that I'm living proof that's total bullshit, I think she just said it because she enjoys shopping for her little sisters.

Anyway. What really pisses me off about that argument is the implicit assumption that silly binary conceptions of gender are a good thing. And since that assumption is implicit, um, pretty much everywhere, I'm pissed off a lot. :(

[atommom]

27. Since our whole society is saturated with that assumption, it's

hard to imagine that putting a little girl in blue will affect her understanding of her gender. The real battle is raising little girls who can see through the stereotypes, and live fulfilling lives in spite of all that B.S.

[Dropkick]

26. I have a 4 year old girl...

...and I run into this problem all the time. One mainstream place I found that has an okay selection of girl clothes in primary colors is Children's Place. I have even been able to find a lot of girl clothing that is *gasp* blue!! But even there it takes some searching.

I absolutely hate the over-sexualization of little girls. Even little girls shorts are too much, all are short short short, offering no real protection for the legs. My daughter loves capris, because, she says, "My legs don't get big scratches". She wears sneakers almost exclusively; I just won't buy useless shoes for her. I have actually seen platform sandals and such in her size!! How the hell are little girls supposed to walk in those things, let alone run and climb and play? (I assume the manufacturers don't think little girls do these things :eyes: )

Toys are something that drives me bonkers. I have refused to purchase her Barbies, but three people this year bought her Barbies for Christmas. She hasn't really played with them at all. Her 3 favorite gifts this year? Some puzzles, her baby doll (she has always LOVED babies, she keeps asking me when I'll give her a little baby brother), and a (simple) camera. The Barbies made it out of their boxes, but that is as far as she cared to deal with them. Her all time favorite toys are her stuffed animals (she loves animals, comes by it honestly - I am a vet tech), her big mega-blocks, and her puzzles. Trying to find good quality, educational, and affordable toys for girls is nigh on impossible at this age, and I'm willing to bet that it is just as hard (if not moreso) for older kids. It's all fashion dolls, jewelry, and "house" toys (kitchen sets etc). :puke:

Sh asked me a few weeks ago if she could be an "animal-doctor president mommy" when she grows up. I told her "Of course!!". I just hope I'm not lying to her.:shrug:

[spinbaby]

32. Try Hearthsong

They have some great classic toys.

http://www.hearthsong.com

[kdmorris]

46. All my girls are teenagers now

And the hardest age was that age when they first grow out of little girl clothes and into "junior" clothes (in my daughters cases, about 11 -12 years of age). It was easier to find clothes when they were little that didn't look so bad, but it was terrible when they were 11 and 12 that the only clothes they could find made them look like streetwalkers, when they barely even had breasts.

Of course, my daughters were little when you could still find stuff that was appropriate and not "all girl". I was shocked when the clothing, shoes and toys first started moving over to the "hyper-sexual", but by then, my girls were getting older.

I go to thrift stores for a lot of this stuff now, as you can still find stuff that's reasonable. It's INCREDIBLY hard to combat the message that society sends to girls about beauty and gender roles. We have tried combating it for 17 years now and it's still managed to creep into our daughter's consciousnesses, despite our best efforts. The first step is to "Just say NO to TV".

[spooky3]

28. Can't explain it, but you might find this amusing...

When he was about 9, my autistic nephew was visiting me for several days. I pulled a pink (which is one of my favorite colors--no kidding!) shirt out of the closet and asked how he thought that would be for the day's activities. He answered, "I don't think pink is really your color. That's my mom's (a fundy) color. I think blue is your color."

That's my sweetie.

[spooky3]

29. I have a question for all you parents...

I'm an aunt but not a parent. How would you respond to this? Some of my friends who are parents and liberals tell me that their children prefer the sex-typed toys. They say they have tried very hard to discourage that, and offer a variety of toys to their kids regardless of gender, and I believe them. They conclude that there are "nature" rather than "nurture" elements at work here (since the preference emerges at a very young age, and that this is why manufacturers don't fight it. I usually just nod sympathetically. Is this your experience? What would you say or do/

[fortyfeetunder]

30. We're doing kids a disservice

When we lay out gender roles. What we are doing is showing them there are boundaries to their capabilities. This is one contributing factor to why we see fewer girls wanting to pursue math and science education starting with high school.

There are dozens of alternatives for boys and girls. I think the best presents for both sexes are science-oriented gifts that promote curiosity and intellectual stimulation. Books are also good for promoting reading.

[Fire]

31. Parents are not the only influence on their children

Do their kids watch TV? Are they old enough to go to school?

[LisaLynne]

35. I'm in a similar situation ...

and I have to say that I see it as just a way for those parents to make themselves feel better. It's very hard to push against society and its gender roles. Every parent, naturally, wants their child to be safe and happy. Having them "stick out" might make them unhappy, so it's easier to just go along. I think this happens beneath the surface -- parents don't know they're doing it.

People do not generally realize just how pervasive gender stereotypes are nor how early ... Ever noticed cards for the birth of a child? It's sickening and we're talking about infants. There are numerous studies about how children are treated differently from the moment they're born. Gender roles are so strong in our country and so embedded in our culture it really is hard to step back and even think for a moment that they are complete constructions.

[MissBrooks]

33. My mother - to this day - still buys me pink and pastels

I return them and buy what I want - but it is imbred in the minds of many that girls are girls (pink) and boys are boys (blue).

I think it's worse when it's being forced on young girls. Especially when it is physically dangerous or could be bad on their bodies. The slick soled, hard patent leather shoes can be dangerous for a little girl - and the boys have these "real shoes".

[CoffeeCat]

34. Also, the Disney Princess stuff is awful...

I have two girls, ages 5 and 4.

The like the Disney Princess stuff, and I have tried to steer them from that stuff. I absolutely dispise the messages that come out of most Disney movies.

The Princesses are all beautiful, scantilly clad, thin and sexy. This princess stuff is marketed toward very young ages--like my kids who are preschoolers.

I try to steer my kids toward gender-neutral, educational, artistic and scientific toys, and of course, books. For Christmas this year, they got a train table, with track, trains and cars; a felt board with felt pieces and a white board, art supplies, puzzles, etc.

As a parent, I have to fight the tidal wave of pink and Princess stuff. However, there are other options. It's too bad we parents have to dig for the dinosaur toys (my girls are big into those!), but Princess is everywhere!

[u4ic]

36. Buying into Sexy: The sexing up of tweens

was the topic of the latest Marketplace on CBC: http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/money/sexy/index.html (video included)

Very, very disturbing. I'm all for healthy sexuality for women, but this ain't it.

[Citizen Jane]

37. I highly recommend this book

Growing a Girl : Seven Strategies for Raising a Strong, Spirited Daughter
by BARBARA DR MACKOFF

From the discussion here I think others would appreciate her writing about hidden gender biases that we don't even know we are perpetuating. I keep reading and re-reading it (my daughter is 22 months old).

Also, I find the pink and plastic toys obnoxiously nauseating. I did buy her a plastic dumptruck this year and Mom and Dad got her a gender neutral Radio Flyer Spring Horse.

Here's a couple of places I found great toys for her:

http://www.rosiehippo.com/

http://www.natomatrading.com/index.cfm

This present was a big hit this year:

http://www.rosiehippo.com/productdetail.asp?groupnumber=T771

as was this one:

http://www.atoygarden.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=210

[Branjor]

38. Here are more good toys...

http://www.backtobasicstoys.com (though I did notice one pink pedal car for girls - yuck - but mostly good stuff)

http://www.mindwareonline.com

http://www.YoungExplorers.com

[bobbieinok]

39. this FREAKS me out.....we fought this battle about gender specific toys

in the 70s.......I thought a concensus had developed that all children should have toys like legos and trucks AND teddy bears/dolls

that girls should learn building,science with toys and boys should learn nurturing and tenderness with toys...

WHAT HAPPENED???? it sounds like the society has totally regressed to the 40s and 50s as far as girls' clothing and toys...

[ohio_liberal]

41. Went to Old Navy

Why are they making little girls 2-4T pants with low rise waists? I couldn't even get them to stay up over a diaper? :shrug:

[elehhhhna]

47. Buy boys clothes. Lots of them are gender-neutral...

my 11 y/o would NEVER wear skirts, pastels, etc. from three years old. She still doesn't like girly-girl clothes but has a taste for classics--khaki's, pullover shirts, tees...

[Fleshdancer]

42. as a mom of a daughter, I feel your pain

the absolute WORST though was when I saw a 9 yr. old girl wearing a t-shirt with the Playboy bunny symbol. She was at the movie theater. I was shaking with anger. In hind sight, I wish I had stayed to find out where her parent(s) were.

Finding baby clothes that aren't pink and girly girl is extremely hard. A good alternative if you have the time is to buy onsies/t-shirts and iron on transfers. My favorite was to iron on wonderful quotes from feminists. The NOW website has some cute stuff too for babies and kids.

As far as toys go, I prefer to get Abby learning toys which are gender neutral, musical toys, books, and Dora because she's a bilingual adventurer. She's four yrs old though and wants wants wants. I draw the line at Bratz toys though...those dolls look more whorish than Barbie.

[Caria]

44. clothes and toys

We've made a point of getting gender-neutral too. Our 4-year-old daughter's room is blue. She has dolls & a dollhouse, but also trains and trucks. She's an only child, she doesn't watch much tv, she's not in school yet, and she plays with boys more often than girls (because more of our friends happen to have sons). BUT her favorite color is pink. If given a choice, she will wear a dress every time. And whenever we've been in a toystore, from when she not yet 3, SHE has told ME which are boy's toys and which are girl's toys.

So we too were beginning to wonder if these notions of gender are somehow innate. Then we started paying closer attention to packaging and shelf placement and stuff like that. It is really not so subtle. And since they are at her eye level, it is no wonder a small child notices that some toys have bright pink packaging with pictures of docile, smiling girls, usually in dresses, while others are blue and green and feature photos of active boys.

And kids that age are paying very close attention because they are figuring out the world.

[HockeyMom]

45. My daughters

are now 20 and 25. When they were little BOTH wore overalls; easier on them and easier on ME. The older one preferred purple and the younger one liked baby blue. They BOTH HATED PINK. Even to this day, as adults, they wouldn't be caught dead in pink. Put them in a dress with patent leather shoes when they were kids? ROFL Even as TWO YEAR OLDS they objected to that. When they got older it was strictly jeans. tshirts and jogging shoes. Remember, this was back in the 80s and 90s. As preteens and teenagers, they both played sports from soccer to softball to ice hockey. My younger daughter played college ice hockey. Are we now going back wards in time with our daughters too? Bad enough they want US to be good little Stepford Wives. Leave our GIRLS alone.