Does this thread bother anyone else as much as it does me?

[Beaverhausen]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2646113#2650193

I just think younger women don't understand what life was like for the rest of us up until the Women's Rights movement in the 60s. And threads like this just take us backwards...not forwards.

Is it just me?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. Yes

I think the OP doesn't realize "show us your tits" isn't a freebie

[Demit]

2. And she doesn't realize all that will stop once she's not young anymore.

Once the tits and everything else goes south, cops will give tickets, repairman will give her invoices, and she will enter the reality that a lot of women didn't know about when they were young...

[CrispyQ]

11. So true.

"and she will enter the reality that a lot of women didn't know about when they were young..."

...which is that you were only ever valued by your sexuality & once you are no longer perceived as a sexually attractive, you are no longer valued.

I wonder if it's something a younger woman can know about? Maybe if you witness an older woman going through it? But then, so much of the change in perception is so subtle, that even as I am going through it in my own life, I don't imagine there is much that a younger woman would pick up on.

[wildeyed]

18. A great bit in a Anne Lamott story.

Older woman is standing at a bus stop at a resort wearing a bathing suit. Younger woman with tight bodies show up and start kind of rolling their eye at her, like oh my, you're not so cute. And Anne thinks, tick-tock, tick-tock. We will all be there someday.

My Mom claims that after menopause, you become completely invisible.

[RazzleCat]

19. Invisible is right

But I like it. I am now no longer looked at as a sexual being. In one sense its sort of sad, but on the other hand its great. Now when I talk to contractors (which I do all the time at work), they listen to me in order to understand exactly what it is I need rather than "check me out" the whole time. When I talk with my boss, I am an equal, not a "cutie". And yes I like it. We have two young and very attractive women at our company and when they attempt to bring up problems they get the your just so cute, when one of them attempted to get bids for some roofing jobs, she ended up getting hit on about 10 times. Not me, I get answers and respect. Loosing the sexual side (in a mans eyes) can make you angry (hey I am middle aged, not dead), or you can look on it as at long last being treated like a "real" person. Maybe I am overtly sensitive to this subject, but being a woman has been a real "problem" in my life. I had always ended up in "male" professions (computers, construction, broadcasting, when I was in them I was always the only woman on staff). So I had to always work to not be seen as "cute" or sexy, because I would be discounted so fast. FYI was cute when young, small, curvy with long wavy hair, and I giggle a lot. Now I am respected, and I mean respected, when one of the partners has problems they come to me and ask for assistance weather it be with their computers at their office or how to interpret an EPA report at last I no longer hear, do you know a guy who could fix this, now I hear do you work on the side? (FYI networking problems), or could you extract the info we need to put together a remediation list for bid?. So loosing the "fresh meat" status of youth has the bonus of allowing you to now be thought of as a smart competent equal.

[Warpy]

24. your mom is absolutely right

However, if you approach it all the right way, it's incredibly liberating, that sudden invisibility. You no longer have to give a crap about fashion, or simper at men to make them go away, or mouth conventionalities to gain acceptance. To be female and over 50 is to be a bit of an outlaw, not bounded by convention due to invisibility.

It's why women over 50 start telling the truth, all of it, warts aplenty.

[Krinkov]

23. well, i for one

like old fashioned courtesy. I recently started to take my hat off for older ladies, when i talk to them. The response is outstanding -- they really appreciate it, and that feels good. I also call them ma'am, and the old coots, sir.

Chicks my age (20's), it somehow seems out of place, like i'm about to beg for something.

I think my age group mistrusts symbolic polite gestures, rather than appreciate them. I don't go out of my way for girls i think are cute, as theyre usually too used to that kind of thing and don't respect a man who does it.

[MuseRider]

3. No, it is not just you.

It really does bother me too. Mostly I am afraid of what I am hearing and seeing in the media and the fact that most people think I am overreacting when I bring it up. I hate to think all of that movement will go away and need to be fought again.

[bloom]

4. probably

and no it's not just you.


And yes - I agree there are forces moving the culture backwards. People can choose to participate in that or not.

[hippiechick]

5. Heh, I was going to say something like that

... but I figured I would be called ancient, or sexist, or repressed, or something ...

In my 38 years the only 'benefits' I have ever gotten for being a woman were venereal disease and an unplanned pregnancy.

Now were I a cute, petite, 20-something woman in today's society I'm sure there would be men galore offering to do all sorts of stuff for me.

But, thank Goddess, I'm an independent free-agent and and am perfectly ok running my own life.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

8. Off topic..but wasn't that Hank's breed that won the dog show?

You may all return to your previously scheduled programming

[hippiechick]

9. Uhhhh ... don't know.

I'm a cable free citizen :hi:

This is what Hank's got in his genes: Australian Cattle Dog



and Beagle.


From what I saw online, the winner was a German Shorthaired Pointer ?

[lukasahero]

6. No it's not just you

To be honest a good deal of the threads in the lounge bug me. We've come a long way, huh baby? :shrug:

[SarahB]

7. You linked it directly to my response.

My response was rather innocuous, yet honest. Like I said in another post on the same thread, you have no idea the level of experiences I've had in my life. You may know what I look like physically, but I've also been significantly heavier and had an entirely different level of experiences. I know from personal experience that when my appearance has fit more into certain narrowly defined standards, I have been treated better by strangers. I certainly don't think it makes it right, moral, and certainly don't expect (or would necessarily want) special favors or treatment based upon the level (or not) I fit within our culture's idea of beauty.

I work very hard in a less than glamorous job that is largely female-dominated anyway, so the level to which I succeed will have far more to do with my own intelligence and abilities than anything to do with appearance. I'm not a shallow person nor in my 20's. I am in my 30's, a mother, a Feminist, lived a lot of life, and I have an appreciation for historical context and struggles. I don't appreciate being pigeon-holed or stereotyped.

[Beaverhausen]

10. I didn't mean to link it to your response at all

it was really the OP and some of the tone of the rest of it that I had problems with.

I really apologize for that. Don't know how it happened.

[SarahB]

15. Thank you.

I appreciate your response. I understand what you meant in your original post, but I wasn't sure if it was aimed at me. I'm glad it wasn't.

[Nikia]

12. Is it wrong for me to accept help if it is offered?

I never expect help because I am female, but I have accepted help that I need. Like in my example, I accepted the friend's jacket. I've accepted help when I had my skiing accident, bicycle accident, and when I've struggled with other stuff. I don't think of it as a feminine advantage. I think as it as the help that I need. In any of theose situations, I wasn't being charming because all I was thinking about was my misfortune. I try to give people help when they need it too.
Interestingly enough, although men are usually the ones that come to my aid, older women do also.
I just wondered what people thought. My male friend said that I shouldn't have accepted his friend's jacket.

[ianna_kur]

13. I always thought it was okay to accept help if you need it.....

I've also accepted jackets, help carrying stuff etc...
I've also given jackets, helped to carry stuff, fixed cars etc...

I tend to run warm, so I'm usually the one offering up a jacket to someone whether they are male or female. :-)

If someone offers you help, and you actually need it, then why not accept it? Likewise, if someone needs your help with something, why not offer it? I'm not sure its a serious gender issue in day to day life. I think it becomes an issue when it is taken to the extremes of the "I'm helpless because I'm a woman" or "I'm competent because I'm male" stances.

Just my 1/2 penny

Ianna

[Beaverhausen]

14. Did the person offer help because you are female or just because

you are a friend?

As for me...I do things like hold open doors for anyone- male or female. I help people out regardless of gender.

[Nikia]

21. That's a possibility too

The 2 jacketless guys in the group were significantly bigger than the guy offering me his jacket. The jacket might not have fit them. I was also the most significantly cold one. My husband is always much warmer than me. The other guy had cold conditioning when he was in the navy.
It made me think that it might be gender based because my best friend, who knew this guy longer, suggested that it was gender based. On the otherhand, that might have been some strange friendship jealousy on his part (I, your best friend, am not offering you my coat because I respect your feminism unlike this other friend. In reality, I would be just as cold as you are if I gave you my jacket, but I don't want you to think that I am less of a friend to you than the other friend.)
I offer help to people of both genders too. I have been helped by men, but I have also been helped by a fair number of older women too.

[Tsiyu]

22. That was my response

though I do admit there are times a guy's assistance is invaluable.
If a woman has the same knowledge, i am just as appreciative.

As for the lounge, it's changed tone lately, kind of boring. But I suppose the folks who are there a great deal are getting what they need out of it. To each his own, eh? It's just kind of blah these days compared to when I started lurking there.

[pmbryant]

16. It's pretty stupid, in my opinion

People of all genders get stuff for free just because other people are being nice/polite/flirting/whatever.

--Peter

[HockeyMom]

17. I agree

My husband has had other men stop and help him change a tire. They have helped me too. Actually, when I was 8 months pregnant (LONG time ago) and riding standing up on a packed NYC subway car in sweltering heat and about to faint, it was an ELDERLY WOMAN who got up and offered me her seat, not a man nor a YOUNG WOMAN.

Some people are just kind, no matter their gender or their age. We need MORE of them in today's society.

[Megahurtz]

20. Yes,

no offsense to whoever that person is, but it seems like an airhead post. Almost sort of egotistical, like, "oh I'm so cute all of the guys just fall all over me"

Yes, people are helpful for other innocent reasons too, like maybe just to be helpful to other people? Gee, ya think?:think: