Abortion a nonreligious issue

[mystwoman]

I read in the laboriously apolitcial LA Times that a movement was arising to render abortion a nonreligious issue.
How will theocons rope in voters now?

[physioex]

1. Ohhh..There are plenty of devise issues....

Ban gay marriages, support of Israel, abstince education, intelligent design....keep going

On Edit:I meant to put all these in quotes since I consider this B.S....

[nashville_brook]

2. do you have a link? would like to read the story...

[chaplainM]

4. Link to L A Times editorial

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-op-wills4nov04,1,5431827.story?coll=la-news-comment

[nashville_brook]

6. thanks -- i'll check it out.

[chaplainM]

3. On NPR's Talk of the Nation

This is the topic right now.

[Sal Minella]

5. I thought the author did a good job of explaining the meaning of the Biblical quotes usually used

to "prove" that "The Bible is against abortion." The husband who can exact a fine is the one I see most commonly misused. The law provided a fine to be paid a man who lost an anticipated heir. Nothing said about the woman choosing to continue or not continue a pregnancy.

My theory is, pennyroyal was so common back in those days that women just made sure they "had a period" on schedule, and "abortion" as such was pretty much unnecessary, and the guys knew almost nothing about it, so it was a non-issue. If a wife was "barren," it might have been by her choosing.

When we lost track of our pennyroyal, we lost control of our bodies. IIRC it was harvested to extinction in southern Europe and northern Africa.

[Iris]

7. I think your theory is probably pretty dead on.

I remember reading that before the advent of doctors, women's health issues were handled by other women - including childbirth and abortion.

[Sal Minella]

8. And it wouldn't surprise me to learn that a goodly number of the "witches" burned at the stake were

midwives or old women versed in the ways of quietly ending unwanted pregnancies.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

10. I suspect you underestimate medieval ignorance.

My guess would be that for every woman who tried to procure an abortion by means of Pennyroyal, there were dozens who tried to have one using lords and ladies, or heartsease, or crushed spiders, or saying the Lord's Prayer leaving out every third word.

The stereotype of the Village Wise Woman who cures peoples' ills through knowledge of herb-lore and poultices is a very common one in fiction, but in fact, while such characters undoubtedly did exist, most of what most of them knew will have been nonsense, and probably done more harm than good.

There's a reason doctors are so universally maligned in older writing. The practice of "medicine" predates the ability to actually cure most maladies by thousands of years.

[femrap]

12. I know you underestimate

the power and abilities of women. And I am equally certain that you overestimate your existence.

Buh bye.

[Quantess]

15. No use saying bye to him.

He likes hanging out here, for whatever reason.

[omega minimo]

16. maybe a one-eyed crow sat on the barn door when he was born

or mebbe he was dropped on the his head.



Surely the history of The Burning Times, the demise of wise women and rise of medicine is not something this forum has to argue over? Maybe some history and education would help.

Not just "old wive's tales" about misapplication of herb's and spiders. :thumbsdown:

[Quantess]

17. "Let's see what these witches are cooking up today..."

(thought bubble) maybe I can talk some sense into them. (/thought bubble)

:rofl:

[omega minimo]

18. "How do we beat the Witch?!!!!111"

:freak:

[Quantess]

14. Pennyroyal is dangerous.

A few years ago, I read about a college-age woman who tried to save a few dollars by ingesting pennyroyal, instead of getting a medical abortion. She had terrible cramps and died.

I'm not sure if this is about that woman or a different case, but this woman also died. I just found this on a google search:
http://realchoice.blogspot.com/2007/02/somebody-was-looking-for-kris-humphrey.html

[Warpy]

20. And here I used it to get rid of fleas.

Who knew?

[Book Lover]

9. Good old Gary Willis

Thanks for the read.

[One_Life_To_Give]

11. Religion is whats taught from the pulpit.

Don't matter what you or I think about the logic of the arguments. If the preacher/minister etc. gets up in front of the congregation and teaches it is wrong. Then religiously it is so, period.

[shenmue]

13. It's not a religious issue anyway

Most abortions are performed early in the first trimester, when the most religious person would have to agree the embryo could not live on its own if naturally expelled from the mother's body. It'd be called a miscarriage.

Most abortions in this country are not performed for birth control reasons. All anti-abortion people are doing is sentencing more women to die from hemorrhaging due to ectopic pregnancies.

[Warpy]

19. No, it's a civil rights issue

which is why it was appropriate to decide it at the Federal level, not at the state level.

It's a question of reproductive slavery.