So much for poverty in Obama's big wrap-up speech.

[bobbolink]

Then "progressives" wonder why we poor folk don't have all the "hope" we're supposed to be expressing.

We're invisible.

[tekisui]

1. Jeez, give him a chance.

What else are you gonna do?

[bobbolink]

5. Ummm, he keeps saying he's been at it for 22 months now...

How much of a chance does he need to speak to us?

As I said, go ahead and attack.... I know it makes you feel better.

"What else are you gonna do?"

A lot of us will be dying... does it matter?

[tekisui]

9. I am not attacking, I think you are being

either lazy, or obtuse. Look at what he has on his website:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/poverty/

There are a lot of issues. Everyone has one that they feel is most important to themselves, I respect that. But, Obama is where he is(winning) because he has used a strategy of building a coalition of support. He can't do anything if he doesn't win. Look at his website, he has some good plans and good ideas.

[bobbolink]

15. Yes,, of course. Poor people are obviously lazy.

And dumb.

Care to go ahead and assign those same qualities to other groups?

Prejudice much?

[tekisui]

30. You're hilarious

and sensitive. Maybe calm down a little. Did you read the link?

[bobbolink]

32. Well, that beats heartless and souless, doesn't it?

[tekisui]

33. And, you still won't say if you read the link.

I am poor. I have always been poor. I am neither souless or heartless. I feel you are intentional ignoring what I say and focusing on me.

[bobbolink]

37. When people start calling names, the rest is moot.

I just don't play that game anymore.

If you're so poor, why do you have fun putting other poor people down?

Isn't it time to reclaim your heart?

[tekisui]

38. I apologize for a reactionary response.

I think that ultimately we want the same thing. I think Obama's heart is in the right place. Please see his website, he has plans for taking on poverty.

He has worked hard to build a winning coalition, and unfortunately not every important issue gets the attention that warrants.

I never meant to insult you, or anyone else. Obama wants to help build our communities and and fund programs that will help the poor.

Most importantly, he will not work against them. I believe he will be receptive to progressive changes pushed by us and Progressives in Congress.

We will find out in due time where Obama is on this. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

[maryf]

23. I can't decide what to do

should I laugh 'til I cry or cry until I laugh? When has he ever said he'd do something about homelessness? If its not on the agenda now, sure as heck won't be when he's in...

[mauvesubmarine]

49. Look at it this way: he is being lambasted for being a Socialist

(as if that would be so horrible, anyway), that bringing up poverty would turn off these types who, let's face it, are probably borderline racists/classists. I mean, isn't poverty associated with those who have been kept down for ages? I think once he got in, things would change. And look how well it worked for Edwards to talk about ending poverty.

[sandnsea]

2. Increased food stamps, increased unemployment benefits,

increased home heating funds, subsidized health insurance, increased earned income credit. You aren't listening.

[GodlessBiker]

3. Indeed.

[DaDeacon]

8. No that's not it ! The poor just need more face time!

By face time I mean, more time being pandered to. Cause that's all you are requesting because if it's real solutions to our country poverty levels will not be found by political ends.

[Naturyl]

34. Oh really?

If poverty isn't solved politically, how is it solved?

I have a funny feeling what the answer might be...

[maryf]

26. What good does home heating do

Without a home to heat!!! give me a break...there are people without houses, millions of people without housing!! millions of old people and children without housing, who's not listening???

[sandnsea]

39. Not everybody in poverty is homeless

That's a very narrow view of all the people who need help.

[dajoki]

44. So those who are don't count?

I have always said that this is our country's biggest embarrasment, and I stand by that. With the wealth we have here there is no excuse for anyone being homeless and the worst thing is that it is our hidden secret, nobody wants to face the facts. Instead of building housing, it is being torn down in droves and not being replaced.

[ComtesseDeSpair]

4. Oh come on

You know Obama will work on behalf of the poor. He just doesn't want to be painted into that "liberal" corner where people think all he's interested in doing is increasing welfare. He's deliberately avoiding discussion of the poor until after he's elected - the middle class is much safer ground, politically. But once he's elected he will fight for the poor every bit as much as he'll fight for the middle class. Give the guy a break.

[bobbolink]

6. "He's deliberately avoiding discussion of the poor until after he's elected"

Thank you for admitting it.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

7. I agree

You say and do what you have to do to get elected. Better that he skirt issues and stay silent than have to go through the hideous betrayal of Bill Clinton, who promised so much to gays and ended up with "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," and that abomination, The Defense Of Marriage Act.

Obama's smarter than anyone gives him credit for, and he's not about to go stupid now and show his cards. This guy I'd follow anywhere, even if I got busted for stalking. He knows what he's doing, and his every move is calculated and deliberate.

Just what I want in my President - someone brilliant, who sees nuance and shades of gray and who understands how things work.

Welcome to DU, Comtesse! :hi:

[bobbolink]

14. THEN, two things....

stop expecting poor folk to automatically vote for him.

Remember the days when Dems actually had the spine to talk about poverty? Remember that? They got the votes.

Number 2... don't expect us to be jumping up and down shouting "Hope".

Yes, we "understand how things work".... oh wait, we're poor, so we must be dumb.

How..... very "progressive"

[Tangerine LaBamba]

17. Huh?

Where did you get, from my post, that I expect anything from anyone?

Your assumption is not only unfounded, but belligerent, offensive, and, yes, it must be said, really dumb.

As for the jumping up and down, I expect, given the giddiness of your post, that you've already done too much of that, landing too often on your head.

Now, go be silly.

[bobbolink]

21. Do you always go to forums for those on the bottom of the ladder

in order to post personal attacks?

Are you willing or able to read rules about that?

So here's how it is... what I've said to you is a fact that Dems need to begin to consider and look at how they've strayed from the principles of the Dem party, which used to garner them great loyalty and votes they knew they could count on.

What you've demonstrated is that rather than consider that great past of the party, how the party has strayed and the lack of compassion for people considered beneath them, all they have left is personal attacks.

Just like the right wing.

Very good strategery.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dajoki]

46. Yes, I for one, remember those days...

very well, but this is no longer our grandparents Democratic Party. As a matter of fact, I see very little difference between the parties on these issues. What has happened? Why has it become unacceptable in our society to speak to the poor and homeless and our needs? We must be invisible!!

[sandnsea]

10. See #2

How could you have missed it?

[FrenchieCat]

11. You are looking for the word "poor", instead of understanding

that the programs he espouse will help the poor, more than anyone.

Affordable college, Health Insurance, increased food stamps, indexing minimum wages increases, extending unemployment, Improved public schools, promoting higher teacher pay for those teaching in at-risk schools. Encouraging young people to volunteer in their communities.

[bobbolink]

12. Oh, that's right... how could I have forgotten that what's good for the muddleclass automagically

raises poor folk....

Notice there is NOT ONE WORD, EVER about low-income housing, among other things.

I guess if we go to college while living in our cars, then everything will be just hunky-dory.

[FrenchieCat]

13. I think that getting a job would be important as a start, don't you?

[bobbolink]

16. Sure 'nuff. ALL 80 year olds should rush right out and get that damned job.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

18. So, you're 80 years old,

living in your car, and going to college, all the while bemoaning some kind of fate on DU?

Congratulations on your first-rate ability to multitask.

[bobbolink]

19. Did I say that?

Congratulations on your obvious compassion.

Oh, and yes... I do live in my car.

Does that matter to you?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

20. No

Nothing you might assert here, given what I've seen of your posts, would lead me to put any credence in any statement you might make.

Ever hear the old saying, "You plant potatoes, you get potatoes"?

Now you have.

[bobbolink]

22. I got your message loud and clear.

There is NO concern for poor folk, and only the desire to bash us.

AND rather than coming to this forum to learn how you may help, you come to the poverty forum to bash.

Potatoes, indeed.

[maryf]

25. So experience doesn't count?

Have you any clue how much courage it must take to take on the banner of the homeless while homeless yourself? do you have any clue how many homeless there are? There is not enough housing for the people.

Try putting on another's shoes. Why would someone come here and state things that weren't true about poverty or being homeless? what would the point be? I'm sorry, I don't understand where you are coming from? Do you have any compassion at all?:cry:

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maryf]

35. Ad hominem attack

I said "I'm sorry, I don't understand where you are coming from? Do you have any compassion at all?"

How is that demanding compassion? and to call me small minded and state my "assumptions" to be worthless is close to, in fact I believe is, an ad hominem attack.

You could have taken my question as an honest inquiry instead of insulting me.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dajoki]

43. Talk about weasel...

Why would you even bother to post on Poverty Forum with your atitude? You pretend to know everything about someone from a few posts which you twist to fit your perverted ideals. Take the time to get to know some poor folk and homeless people before you go judging like you are.

And I suggest that you take your own advice, clean up YOUR behavior and YOU check the dictionary for the meaning of tolerence!!

[maryf]

51. Thanks dajoki!

You took the words right out of my mouth!:yourock:

[dajoki]

47. Potatoes?

Have you any clue what you're talking about? The "credence", as you say, happens to be the fact that some people have the experience and knowledge of what they speak.

[maryf]

24. HHmmm...

So you apply, whats your address? "the old Chevy parked in the parking lot." What have you been doing of late, "oh, just hanging around in my car, sometimes the library...". Lots of homeless people do work, by the way, the problem is there is not enough low income housing for many people...

[dajoki]

45. Did you even consider...

that a person may be disabled and unable to work? What should they do? I know something about this, but I'll wait before I try to explain it to you because I don't want to waste my time.

[TBF]

29. I'm pretty sure this is where his "faith-based" initiatives come in...

and I'm not joking. There are certainly reasons why I prefer Barack over McCain (mostly having to do with Palin) but in terms of economics or views towards poverty I don't see overwhelming differences. Here is a link to one of the tent cities that has sprung up: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26776283/. Maybe it will enlighten some of Obama's campaign interns who seem to be posting here en masse lately. I doubt they have any idea that such things exist. So we'll bookmark this thread and see where we are in a year. Should be interesting.

[bobbolink]

31. Thank you for understanding! I do appreciate it.

No, there isn't much difference with the poverty issue.

As far as the "faith-based" initiatives.... well, we need JUSTICE NOT CHARITY.

We need LOW-INCOME HOUSING, not a church-run shelter. That shouldn't be that hard for "progressives" to understand, should it?

Can you imagine saying the same things about, say.. the labor movement? Wouldn't that be something?

"Maybe it will enlighten some of Obama's campaign interns who seem to be posting here en masse lately."

Do you suppose they really think this amount of attack and vilification of the people they supposedly have so much in common with, will get them the votes they want?

Yes, I'm copying all of these ugly attacks, and showing them to other people, who are absolutely amazed, and feel like all of this should be reported to the Obama headquarters, because it doesn't reflect what they wish their spokespeople to be about. I think it's time to "enlighten" Obama himself about the prejudice and ugliness in his own campaign people.


" So we'll bookmark this thread and see where we are in a year. Should be interesting. "

Very good idea. Not that any of these people will EVER admit to having been wrong, let alone apologize. And THAT they share in common with the RW.

[sandnsea]

40. I've lived in a tent

and no, this isn't about any faith-based initiatives. It's about concrete programs to prevent poverty and help people out of poverty. Nobody can wave a magic wand and make every problem go away.

[TBF]

41. I wasn't clear - what I meant is that Obama plans to solve this through

faith-based programs. That's all I've heard from him so far on this. He will need to do much more than that to really change things. We'll see how that goes.

[sandnsea]

42. Well then you haven't been listening

and I suspect you're putting your prejudices ahead of your brains. I am so sick of this shit.

[TBF]

50. Easy there, if you did your homework you'd know I voted for the guy

and even campaigned for him back in March. I'm not crazy, however, about his shift to the right since securing the nomination. Please cite, with specifics, how else Obama has promised to deal with homelessness and poverty. I would love for you to prove me wrong.

[bobbolink]

48. You're very correct on this! JUSTICE NOT CHARITY!

We've had 30 years of dealing with poverty and homelessness through charity, and it's failed completely.

The immense suffering and death DEMAND a change of direction!!!!!!

[maryf]

52. The whole problem

with nearly everything boils down to economic justice. When will we start applying the Universal Declaration of Human rights? It is the right of every human to a home , the right of every human to have food, the right of every human to health care on demand...follow the money, the greedy don't want to share...

[Naturyl]

53. Right, "charity" is the wrong answer. We need justice.

U.G. Krishnamurti said:

Charity is the filthiest invention of the human mind: first you steal what belongs to everyone; then you use the policeman and the atom bomb to protect it. You give charity to prevent the have-nots from rebelling against you. It also makes you feel less guilty. All do-gooders feel 'high' when they do good.

[bobbolink]

54. that's a great quotation! Thanks!

Can you imagine actually saying that to people who feel proud of their charity-giving?

Wow.. talk about going ballistic... they would burst an artery...

Hmmmm...

:evilgrin: