real suggestions needed, please help with cat ideas?

[MrsBrady]

we are having trouble with our cat we got last August.
Dora.
And I'm also so sleep deprived and pissed right now, I also might get a little snarky.
(Being back in college at 36 is keeping me up enough!)
But really, we need some help.

In the mornings anywhere between 3am and whatever time she wants, she will scratch on the bed, jump on top of the furniture, maybe jump up on us too, knock things off of the bedside table.
And by things I mean glasses with water, my eye glasses, chew through my ipod chords, tear up kleenex boxes, tear up toilet paper, Books I am reading, chew up my homework (for real!) And more.
And yes, also, normal cat behavior. Fine, I get it.

Ok so, right away when we got her...I used the spray water bottle consistently, yes, CONSISTENTLY (and my husband), and no's, clapping hands with no's.
Then we started making sure to play with her at night with this pin light we have to make sure she gets "worn out" so that she would sleep. We thought that might help her with her behavior in the morning.
I would wake her up from her naps in the evening so that she couldn't sleep in hopes of her not bothering us in the morning.
No. nothing. Nothing is working, and I am going to l o s e m y m i n d.

And then she's gotten aggressive with the other two cats. She waits for them to pounce on them, won't leave them alone after they have told her they don't want to "play".
She's also beginning to get aggressive at meal time, and I'm having to let the other two eat before her now.
I'm having to crate her in the mornings, if I can catch her. Just so I can feed the other two first.
I don't like doing it, but otherwise, one of the other cats won't eat with her around. Billi cat was sick with stones and had to have surgery 8 weeks ago.
I can't have Billie being stressed out.

The no's have not worked, the spray bottle has not worked, the ignoring her (until she comes to you thing) has not worked.
I raised two other cats (the one's I have now) from kitty-hood, and they are both well behaved and I would say even trained.
But nothing works with this cat. She will not stop this behavior. I need some freaking sleep.

She has plenty of "good things" to scratch on, because she uses them all the time. She is insistent on this morning behavior, and the intimidation things can last all day.

This new cat is almost a year old, probably. She was about 3 months old when we got her.
For the last 8 months I have done everything "by the book" for cat discipline, and nothing is working.

I love this cat, she's sweet when she's not wanting to make you kill her.

I've thought about putting her in the bathroom at night. I hate to think that she would be lonely in there all night by herself. And what's to stop her from destroying the bathroom?
Should I try it? I've even thought about a large type cage for her at night, one that I could fold up during the day? I don't want to do that, but I don't know what else to do?

Anybody have a suggestion? Seriously.

[Dangerously Amused]

1. If you feed her in the morning or during the day,

...try feeding her the biggest meal of the day right before bedtime. Let her eat until her belly is full. In my experience cats will become most rambunctious when they are hungry (they would otherwise be using this energy in the wild to hunt for food), and then will sleep after they eat.

And yes, keeping the kitties separated during mealtime is a good idea. I have to do that with mine (they all eat the same thing but two of them are getting meds mixed in with their food and have to eat from only their own bowl). I don't crate them though, just feed them in different rooms with the doors closed until they are finished. I consistently give each of them their food bowl in the same order and place each kitty's bowl in the same spot every day and now they are used to it, they all know who gets served in which order and they all go to their feeding spot without trying (much) to get at the first bowl that gets set down.

As for the aggressive play... that is likely her age. Maybe try separating them while you are not at home. I have also heard good things about the kitty pheromone products. I'll try to find you a link...

ETA: Here is a link. I think you can find these products cheaper at Amazon and/or eBay, etc:

http://www.feliway.com/gb

Good luck. Keep us updated with your progress, okay?

[MrsBrady]

6. i do feed them before bed

but let me see what I can do to watch to see how much she is eating.
Maybe I can get her to eat a little more. Maybe I should leave some dry food out for grazing during the evening.

We have a small home, and it would be difficult to separate them during the day.
I had already thought about that.
Maybe I should rethink it.

I have their food in my office, because otherwise the dog would eat it.
They have a cat door for that room and they can go in and out, but the dog can't get to the food.
Their boxes are in the other end of the house by the back door.
We have a small home...and the kitchen, laundry, and living room are all the same square.

My husbands office is out of the question, as there is too much computer, test equipment, geeky ham radio stuff and things that they all like to climb around on. That door stays closed when he's not in there. The Garage is out of the question because it's a working space for my husband..he's not only a radio geek, he's a car geek too.
I could put her or the other two in the bedroom during the day, but not thrilled about keeping a cat box in the bed room.

I'll try your other suggestions, and the links. Thanks for the input.

[CountAllVotes]

2. thoughts from Mark Twain (a cat lover)

That's the way with a cat, you know -- any cat; they don't give a damn for discipline. And they can't help it, they're made so. But it ain't really insubordination, when you come to look at it right and fair -- it's a word that don't apply to a cat. A cat ain't ever anybody's slave or serf or servant, and can't be -- it ain't in him to be. And so, he don't have to obey anybody. He is the only creature in heaven or earth or anywhere that don't have to obey somebody or other, including the angels. It sets him above the whole ruck, it puts him in a class by himself. He is independent. You understand the size of it? He is the only independent person there is. In heaven or anywhere else. There's always somebody a king has to obey -- a trollop, or a priest, or a ring, or a nation, or a deity or what not -- but it ain't so with a cat. A cat ain't servant nor slave to anybody at all. He's got all the independence there is, in Heaven or anywhere else, there ain't any left over for anybody else. He's your friend, if you like, but that's the limit -- equal terms, too, be you king or be you cobbler; you can't play any I'm-better-than-you on a cat -- no, sir! Yes, he's your friend, if you like, but you got to treat him like a gentleman, there ain't any other terms. The minute you don't, he pulls freight.
- "The Refuge of the Derelicts"

and ...

By what right has the dog come to be regarded as a "noble" animal? The more brutal and cruel and unjust you are to him the more your fawning and adoring slave he becomes; whereas, if you shamefully misuse a cat once she will always maintain a dignified reserve toward you afterward--you will never get her full confidence again.
- Mark Twain, a Biography

Remember this one in particular - cats do not forget, I know that much. It is hard to regain confidence. If you were crated up how would you react? :evilgrin:

More Mark Twain thoughts on cats here:

http://www.twainquotes.com/Cats.html

Good luck, you need it!!

:dem:

[CreekDog]

4. but to keep the cat from going homeless is a pretty big consideration

it's apparent in the OP'S writing that something has got to change --it is not workable to keep allowing the cat to do these things.

i had a friend give away a cat because it bit her at night, i mean attacked. she had it for months.

so, the cat is going to do whatever it wants and perhaps the cat can do whatever it wants --but it can't necessarily do that and live in a household.

[MrsBrady]

11. i couldn't bear to give her away

we love her, the little shit that she is.

We have find a solution. I'm not giving up on her. I wasn't even considering it.

But something does have to change. :hi:

[CountAllVotes]

15. she might try the no-kill shelter route

I wrote about it recently in another post about a lady that has a cat that viciously attacked her more than once and something needs to change. The cat is at present drugged up and does not sound happy.

This particular cat however sounds content enough to do whatever it likes in the environment it is in. However, it seems another home could be better - a home with perhaps no other cats?

I agree with the last post - this cat sounds like it could be an attention hog.

:shrug:

[MrsBrady]

9. not a big fan of mark twain

and I understand where you are coming from...
but I appreciate your input just the same.

I don't like crating her for the one or two hours a morning, but it's been necessary.
Sleeping is important. And...I will not allow her to harass and intimidate the other cats either, that is not fair to them. One of them is claw-less (not my doing), and getting older...and the other one is getting over being very ill. They even go out of their way to try to be nice to her. But sometimes she just decides it's time to play when they are trying to just groom and hang out. She doesn't get the social order, somehow.

She comes out purring and stretches and acts as if nothing has happened and continues her tear, crated or not. Believe me, it's not harming her...I just know it's not the best solution.
It's just been the only one that we have been able to maintain, as poor as it is.

[CountAllVotes]

12. Twain was dead right on re: cats

I view him as an expert really. I know my cat never got over the fact that I got up one morning and screamed at him and he ran away from me because he would not shut up (the wail of a siamese!).

Ever since this happened last year he has been angry at me and always keeps distance.

Not that I blame him I SUPPOSE.

I had a cat that did that stuff too (knocking things off the counter, etc.). She was bored stiff is why I believe. I ended up moving and took her with me and she sadly was killed by a car. She was enough to drive me crazy yes, but I loved her anyway.

You really cannot control a cat - that is the wisdom of Mark Twain IMO.

Cats are indeed the last truly independent and free living creatures whether we as humans like it or not. Some can be trained, yes but only if they want to be "trained".

Cats are not for everyone no doubt! :D

[huskerlaw]

3. Try the bathroom.

Put her in there with food, water, litter box, and bedding. If you have glass bottles or anything easily destroyed sitting out, put them away. She will be FINE.

I have 3 cats, who love to run up and down the hallway at about 3 am, coming to a screeching halt on my bed. Like you, I was completely sick of not sleeping through the night, so I started putting them all in the kitchen at night. They didn't like it at first, and would scratch on the door and meow, but within a few weeks they got used to it. They know the nighttime routine now and don't have any problems with it. All I have to do is say, "Riley, Spencer, Kyra, night time!" and then call each of them from the kitchen. They come by themselves, and when they walk in, I give each a little treat. If I'm up late on the weekend, they'll even walk into the kitchen and look at me like "ummm, aren't you going to bed?"

They're always happy to see me in the morning, but they aren't at all upset. A few times, they have made a bit of a mess (dragging plastic bags out of the cupboard, knocking silverware out of the drying rack, etc), but really nothing major.

Good luck!

[MrsBrady]

7. hmmm

we don't have a kitchen door.

She'd have to be in the bathroom alone, so I don't know if that would work so well
with her being alone?

[huskerlaw]

8. My kitchen isn't that big...

so I think your bathroom would work just as well. She will probably be pretty upset by the situation for a few weeks, especially if the other cats annoy her through the door, but I think she'd get used to it. If you reward her for going in there (the treat when you put her in for the night) and make sure that she's comfortable while she's in there (food, water, litter and bedding), I honestly think she'd be fine. The other cats would probably also really appreciate having a break from being terrorized by her.

[badgerpup]

5. When did you return to college?

Does the onset of this behavior coincide with your going back to school? Dora might be reacting to this...cats can be real sticks-in-the-mud when it comes to change. Some don't do 'adapt' very well and it comes out in attention seeking behavior at inappropriate times, aggressive behavior towards humans and the other cats, peeing and pooping in inappropriate places...this is all their way of saying "I'M UNHAPPY,CONFOOGLED AND DISCOMBOBULATED! WAAAAHHH!"

Sounds like you're doing the right things with playing, and feeding her a BIG meal at bedtime might help...
I'd recommend checking out Bach Flower Remedies.
http://www.bachflower.com/
One of my vets uses them; each 'remedy' is mixed very specifically depending upon symptoms. These have helped my particular 'stick-in-the-mud' deal with some very big changes as well as some small but irritating (to him) ones..e.g., there was a huge fire in another part of the state, but the smell and ashes were carried by the wind, and it upset him.

Rescue Remedy http://www.bachflower.com/Rescue_Remedy.htm
is also a good all-around homeopathic.
They can be put into the water if direct dosing is an issue and it won't hurt the unaffected furkids.
I've got one cat who actually enjoys his remedy and 'asks' for it...paws at the shelf where it's kept, and when he sees the bottle, sits down and raises his head so I can put the eyedropper in his mouth.

Hope this helps...sleep deprivation can make you feel like :nuke:

[MrsBrady]

10. thanks

i never thought about the flower remedies. I've heard of them. I know where I can get them locally. I'll try that.

I do feel like crap.

We got her in August..or I should say...She decided she was going to live with us in August, and I started back to school at the same time.
She was three months old.
A neighbor essentially abandoned her, so we took her in. (she could see we were suckers from the start). She was so undernourished, that she went into heat right away after a month of good no-grain wet food.

She's been this way from the start.

She's a real cuddle cat when she wants to be, but she's a little shit when she's not in your lap.
The other two are just the opposite, "don't bother me unless it's time for you to pet me."
They never cause any trouble, mostly.

[roody]

13. Lock her up when you need rest.

If you feel bad for her, think about the thousands of cats at shelters who are waiting for a home in a small cage.

[spooky3]

14. Some suggestions - I think you have an attention hog like mine

and her youth is part of the problem. Kittens and young cats often really need a playmate of a similar age to burn off their energy.

1) I would NOT lock her in the bathroom at night. I predict she will go absolutely crazy and will be worse during the rest of the day.

2) Have you had her checked out by a vet to make sure there is no physical problem?

3) if she's healthy, her behavior is likely to be less of a problem as she gets a little older. One of my cats who is now 2 (have had him about 8 months) engages is some of these behaviors but things really have been improving in the past few weeks. I thought they never would, but he really seems to finally "get" what is not acceptable, even though he backslides sometimes. I do NOT use the squirt bottle except for one very risky behavior.

4) If I can play with my attention hog BEFORE the bad behavior starts, he is much better behaved. I STRONGLY suspect that is likely what is driving your kitty's behavior. Ignoring does not work because it doesn't address the high need this particular kitty has to interact with you - my other kitties are happy but do not have NEARLY the same need. If you can try to think of her as a young child who honestly NEEDS your attention as opposed to would simply like to have it, and try very hard to give her that attention for positive behavior (go find her when she is sleeping and pet her and tell her what a good girl she is, play with her as much as possible BEFORE bad behavior, etc.).

5) I would close your door at night and let her run the house while you sleep. If your other kitties have claws and teeth (one of mine does not, so I have to protect him from the young crazy one) they should be able to defend themselves. I predict she will adapt to this (mine has - he can even sleep with me at night now some nights, and waits for me to wake up to start bugging me nearly 95% of the time).

6) How old are your other kitties? After several months of watching my crazy one bug my older one to death, I figured I had no choice but to get another young kitty for him to play with (so that my old toothless one is protected somewhat), even though two cats was plenty. This helped a LOT, even though they don't play as much now as they did at one time and nothing seems to substitute for that need to have your attention sometimes. Since you have 3 it just may be out of the question for you to get another at this point and you may just have to wait until she calms down with age.

[and-justice-for-all]

16. Sounds like you have one high energy kitty

it also sounds like she is a young, bouncy teenager.

You may just have to let her grow out of it, do not lock her away either.