It's not Dean; it's his supporters

[WI_DEM]

I started a thread in GD-politics on why so many people here don't like Dean because it is rather bewildering. He is a mainstream Democrat, he energized the party, he raised a good deal of money for other Dems and he campaigned hard for Kerry, still people don't seem to care for him.

But the answers in many respects are interesting. It turns out that many people think Dean is fine, but his supporters are the most obnoxious people around!!

I think we are a fine group of people. How do you think we got this reputation?

p.s.
and I was happy to see so many people say in the thread how much they do like Dean too!!

[madfloridian]

1. I hate to burst your bubble.

I saw your thread. Actually the hating the Dean supporters thing is a long time meme. It is meant to belittle us.

I don't like a lot of the Clark supporters, and some of the Kucinich supporters can be rough as well.

I just don't say it. I think it is very wrong to do that.

Please don't accept that we are the bad guys. They are trying to do this to us.

[WI_DEM]

3. I definitely don't accept it

as I said we are a fine group of people and many Dean supporters I know are great people. But, this attitude I think probably comes from the time when DU was known as "Dean Underground" by some (not us) because he had so many supporters here which disheartened the supporters of other people.

[bullimiami]

20. i think we are the smartest most likeable most pragmatic

and hardest working group of all.


:)

[janx]

2. It probably goes back to the primaries. Dean was ahead

for so long. So much got blown way out of proportion during the primaries.

[mandyky]

4. They did not like it that we agreed with his GOP lite

attitude. I read that thread, and once again people were saying Dean bashed other Dems individually. If he ever did, I missed it and I tried to watch every appearance Dean made (except for Fox). They obviously think we're cultish, and are mistaken in that and that we think he is liberal. Liberal was the label MSM used.

They also don't get that Dean changed as he was campaigning - not in a flip flop way but he _did_ used to do things as a Gov that he would not have done as Prez. He learned how Free Trade had hurt the Midwest, and while he is still a fiscal conservative, I am willing to bet he have gone at budget balancing without hurting the poor and working class. Yes at one time, when options were few he agreed with raising retirement age, but he also agreed with what Clinton did instead.

Maybe we Deaniacs were a tad too exuberant, but many of those Dean haters actually fell for the crap the MSM served up about Dean.

Most of the time I just scratch me head and feel puzzled - thank goodness for this group.

[WI_DEM]

5. apparently they can't accept the truth

The Democrats did cave to Bush and it's a pretty accepted thing now that they did. He was voicing the opinion of many Democrats outside of Washington's beltway.

[Cheswick2.0]

6. nobody likes to be proven wrong

Many of those people were vicious brats during the primaries and continue to be vicious brats. They are the Lord of the Flies democrats who project their own worst traits onto others and then attack. I will never forget that every positive Dean thread was attacked by supporters of various candidates.

I'll never forget that every Gore thread was visited by bullies for Kerry.

I'll never forget the manufactured outrage and prissy superior attitude of DK supporters and the nasty attacks Clarks most loyal supporters subjected us to going to the Clark Blog to plot and bringing back astro-turf.

The primaries were vicious and we were not the main problem. So they stopped Dean...good for them. It's all worked out so great hasn't it?

[WI_DEM]

7. well, we just can't let ourselves get down over it

Dean will make his decision: DNC, continue his work with DFA or running for president in '08. Anything he decides will be fine with me. I was a huge advocate of his running for the DNC position, but now I wonder if he gets it if the DLC types will try to destroy him and/or neuter him. In the long run it might serve the nation best for him to continue with DFA and leave his options open for '08. But it is his decision and apparently he is really looking at the DNC--and while he would have opposition he also would have great opportunities to do great things in the next 2-4 years.

[Cheswick2.0]

8. Yes I agree , he will do what he thinks best and it is his decision

as to what he thinks that is.

[janx]

9. Nobody has stopped what Dean started.

It's US, and it's the American people, remember. There are people posting on DU who realize that now, and I'm so glad of it. It's really very encouraging.

During the primaries, a lot of people walked around wearing blinkers, devoted to one candidate or another.

But DFA is not about that, and Dean wasn't about that either. The problem we now have is showing that to people. Some of them still have their blinkers on and assume that we do too, that it was about Dean as some kind of cult or rock star, when it couldn't have been further from that.

Take heart, Ches. This is going to take awhile.

[a new day]

10. So, if they must personalize and project, why care what they think?

The triangulation politics of some lite-Republicans -- call them "moderates", DLC, or whatever -- are such a matter of faith with them, only electoral victory by DFA candidates will bring them around.

Howard Dean is a centrist Democrat and I think more pragmatic in his approach to issues that is John Kerry. The fantasy that he is some sort of liberal is true only to the extent that he will not give up on century old core Democratic beliefs for the sake of attracting campaign contributions from big business.

Runaway corporate greed is causing a world-wide upheaval and it needs to be slowed in order to preserve the environment, direct resources toward solving our energy crisis, protect human rights, and further social justice. It is hard to see how that will be accomplished without increased corporate taxes, regulation and return of government to providing the social safety net that is rapidly being dismantled.

Abandoning voters who want those things in order to attract gay Republicans who favor abortion is a proven recipe for disaster.

Zell Miller is right to say that the course of the Democratic Party has removed its national appeal, and he should know. He was on of the architects of its downfall.

[Philostopher]

11. Actually, let's not hide our heads in the sand, here.

There were several disruptors here at DU during the primaries who claimed to be Dean supporters who acted like perfect a$$holes. I mean, there were plenty of genuine Dean supporters who are still here who were defensive, but I didn't necessarily see their defensiveness as uncalled for in the situations (though some did).

I don't think all of the really disruptive people were genuine Dean supporters, I think they came in here with a purpose to get us all pissed off at each other and split cohesiveness within the DU community over candidate choice.

I don't know how many 'get with the program' posts I saw, after it was pretty much decided and Dean dropped out. I felt like I was expected to tattoo Kerry's face on my ass just so my having supported Dean in the primaries didn't reflect badly on my perceived loyalty to the Dem party. I bailed out on DU for four weeks at one point, I even deleted the bookmark so I wouldn't be tempted. I hadn't done any of the things other candidates' supporters accused 'all Dean supporters' of doing, and neither had most of the other Dean supporters here. A few bad apples ruined the whole barrel.

There was no better personification of the Dem party I used to love than Howard Dean. The problems we had here with supporters of other candidates weren't entirely of either their or our making -- some people came here and were disruptive and claimed to be (and some of them may have been) Dean supporters, and we all got tarred with the same brush.

Welcome to show business -- it happens. There was just enough resentment from supporters of other candidates that the disruption here, whether accidental or deliberate, made Dean everybody's favorite strawman. For some, he still is.

[madfloridian]

19. I disagree.

It was not accidental. But I won't make waves anymore. The blame can be shared in anything, but in this case it was an organized attempt. We need to be honest as best we can. Denial is a river in Egypt.

[JNelson6563]

12. I couldn't care less

who the boogey man du jour is. If the mob wants to point at Deanies as a scapegoat to make themselves feel better about being deep into the borders of Loserville let them. We will continue to push ahead and while they sit in their own poop and cry on DU (let's face it, these are hardly movers and shakers in RW politics) who cares?

I just scanned LBN, GD, and GDP. I didn't click on one post in GD or GDP. It was so easy. I plan to do it often. I have arrived at the conclusion that I won't bother to attempt dialogue with such people. I'd be better off counting blades of grass on my front lawn.

Julie

P.S. There is no question that certain Clark supporters were the absolute worst in primary season, with a sprinkling of Kerry supporters in the running.....

[WI_DEM]

13. true

it is a shame that they succeeded during the primary season of driving away a number of Dean supporters. It is a shame that many of those supporters allowed themselves to get so upset over the attacks on Dean and on "Dean supporters" that they left leaving Dean's opponent's clearly in the drivers seat here.

[madfloridian]

14. I don't think you realize that many did not "leave".

They were banished. This is now Ground 0 for diminishing Dean and his supporters. This is pretty well known now.

And I tried. I just saw the light when I tried to point out that we were not the ones calling names....and it disappeared.

I think we all need to be good Democrats now. Go and read Howard Dean's great column this week on the 2 million dollar yacht. Good one.

I have been made aware now that I am one of the worst offenders...and made aware by fellow DFAers.

I have no posts in GD or GDPolitics in over 24 hours. So I am being good now.

[demnan]

15. I don't think you can single out one group or another

I think we all went apeshit right before the primaries. It was painful to be on DU at that time. I know that the only time I ever had a comment left on my car was by a Kerry supporter who left the primary results on my windsheld one day. I thought that was a low blow and something no Republican ever did to me.

That being said, I certainly didn't mind supporting Kerry. The only time I regretted our selection is when he gave up so easily.

If we had gotten a super strong candidate from the beginning, I don't think there would have been this tension. I really suspect that Dean would not have gotten more votes than Kerry.

[WI_DEM]

16. many Kerry volunteers I encountered

were ex-Dean supporters. It was always a myth that Dean or his supporters wouldn't work or vote for Kerry. I remember when there were many posts which accused us of that.

[Cheswick2.0]

17. yeah, we were all going to vote for Nader

:eyes:

[madfloridian]

18. Yes, you most certainly can single out a group.

If you were at DU during the primaries and did not know what was going on, then you were not paying attention.

It is happening now, and I intend to let them have the board as theirs. It is not worth it. It was a mass influx, and it was real.

I just post in here about Dean, and the rest is not worth it now.