Osama Bin Laden Is dead -- Should We Rejoice?

[SCarrington Smith]

Osama Bin Laden is confirmed dead, and as news of his demise spread, videos and reports of worldwide cheer exploded across the media. Thousands of people flocked to the streets, carrying children on their shoulders and screaming victory over evil.

I first heard of Bin Laden’s death last night, when one of my sons came downstairs and informed me of the breaking news he saw reported on CNN. We turned the TV on, and after a moment of disbelief, I was actually saddened by the reactions of the people. Yes, Osama Bin Laden was an infamous figure, and he was responsible for the death of many thousands of people all over the world, but should we really rejoice over the death of a human being?

President Obama announced to the families of the victims of 9/11 that justice is done, and his sentiment was shared by several leaders who felt Bin Laden’s death marks the end of an era, but even that statement led me to think. My heart goes out to the victims of any act of terror and their families, but how does the death of a man bring upon justice? In my opinion justice would have been served if Bin Laden was captured and tried for his crimes. His death only exonerated him from facing the consequences of his actions.

Strangely enough, Adolf Hitler, whose crimes against humanity will forever be etched in the mind of the collective, was confirmed dead on April 30, 1945. The same day, sixty-six years apart. Coincidence? Maybe so, maybe not.

I remember reading once that this world has seen two teachers of compassion – the Dalai Lama and Adolf Hitler. When I first read the statement, I found it hard to accept, but as I continued reading, I understood something different: Teachers use different teaching methods to drive the same lessons home. The Dalai Lama uses unconditional love to teach compassion, Hitler used unconditional hatred, two opposite faces of the same powerful feeling. The Dalai Lama teaches us to love one another because we are all expressions of the same creation, and Hitler taught us to see oneness by default, after people were senselessly murdered because of superficial differences.

What lesson did Osama Bin Laden teach the world during his stay on Earth? Much like Hitler, he raised negative feelings in a selected few and he caused the rest of the world to stick to one cause: Humanity. Through Bin Laden’s actions, and the actions of his followers, the world understood that we are all one despite our differences, and in the greater scheme of things we are all brothers and sisters; the tragedies that befall one befall all of us as a whole.

Bin Laden is dead, and many believe human justice is served. Is divine justice also served? As the Vatican Spokesman, Father Federico Lombardi, declared: “Osama bin Laden, as we all know, had the very grave responsibility of spreading division and hatred amongst the people, causing the death of countless of people, and of instrumentalizing religion for this end," he said. "In front of the death of man, a Christian never rejoices but rather reflects on the grave responsibility of each one in front of God and men, and hopes and commits himself so that every moment not be an occasion for hatred to grow but for peace."

[Myrina]

1. How will the US react when 'justice' is attempted on bin Laden's behalf ...

... by sharpshooters from his own org, and one or more of our leaders is taken out in retribution for his assassination?
When hundreds more soldiers are killed?

Will we understand that its just "justice being served" or will we get on our horse of righteous indignation again and demand more death?

:( I do not feel good about what "we" have done, in any way.

[SCarrington Smith]

2. Myrina, I feel the same way

We denounced people cheering the death of Americans, and we called them animals. How different are we?

[Myrina]

8. I think what bugs me most, as stated in posts below ...

... is how 'celebratory' the US is. Nobody is doing any navel-gazing. What is there to party about?
We assassinated a human being. Policy isn't going to be re-thought. We aren't gonig to stop messing with other countries.
POTUS isn't going to bring the troops home, restore civil rights, give us better tax policy or healthcare ... all it's done is feed our bloodlust and arrogance & diminished him in my eyes (seriously, what kind of human being would want to WATCH an execution/ assassination??).

I think this has finalized our crossing the precipice of becoming the "Norsefire Party" in V for Vendetta.

[Kookaburra]

3. It's not justice, IMHO

Well, maybe vigilante justice (eye for an eye type thing), but there is no peace. There is not calm. There is no sense of balance now that he's gone. All that is left is the determination of those who survived him to avenge his death, perpetuating the downward cycle. This hurts my heart in so many ways.

[Lindsey]

4. I'm not a violent or vengful person but I have to disagree w/you,

my fellow ASAH friends. I believe there is the energy of love the Planet Earth is exposed to. Unfortunately, I also believe there is a negative energy as well. Adolph Hitler and Osama Bin Ladin are two "greys" - my definition of negative forces. My understanding is that they gave him the opportunity to surrender and and he fired at our troops. I'm sorry, but IMO, he needed to be off of the planet.

[OneGrassRoot]

5. I've been observing this literally all night...

I have mixed feelings about all of it.

I was really surprised by the crowds' reactions. Since most being shown were college-age students -- and after hearing some of them interviewed -- I came to the conclusion that many of them were there just to party and chant. They really weren't emotionally invested. It was that crowd mentality taking hold and then the whole "USA, USA!" chant thing started.

Like a sporting event.

That crowd mentality does always bother me, though. :(

For others who ARE emotionally invested in this event, I don't get the sense that many were cheering Bin Laden's death, per se; I got the sense that they were cheering and hoping that the end of an era had occurred with Bin Laden's death.

I personally don't feel anything about Bin Laden's death; I feel he chose it. So be it. I think many feel the same way, but aren't grave dancing.

While it may not be realistic, people are hopeful that this will indeed shift something...a shift toward the positive, toward peace, toward the troops coming home.

Miracles can happen. We'll just have to wait and see.

[jbnow]

67. I felt the cheering kids were emotionally invested in their way

They would have been preteens or young teens on 9/11, a horrible age to be impacted by those images and the air of fear and sadness all around them

Everything around it since then has been so negative too... unending war, war of lies, Gitmo, torture, an ugly atmosphere hew, economic crash
Just bad news

bin laden has been the iconic image of 9/11 and terror more than some real person to them, to most of us.

The end of osama is the first 'victory' they have seen. I didn't think they were celebrating death... but some release, something concrete that gives promise of a new start
I am not saying it well. I can feel it more than say it.

I didn't feel like celebrating or chanting USA but I am not 21 either. To try to understand it I imagined being 12 when 9/11 happened and went from there... and it didn't take long to see their joyous outburst as positive and life affirming, not gory and death crazed

And as you note... that hope of "a shift toward the positive, toward peace, toward the troops coming home"

And also it is true
Miracles can happen
May this shift open that door

[OneGrassRoot]

68. You actually said it very well....

and I agree wholeheartedly. My views about this have evolved over these last few days -- seeing very little of what I personally interpret as any "blood lust" -- and I concur wholeheartedly.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

:hi:

[MorningGlow]

6. Desensitization

What bothers me most is how we're continually manipulated into the "team mentality", "us vs. them", with a need to "win" the game--and how many people fall for such black-and-white thinking. I was most horrified to see a post in GD this morning that said to right-wingers (going to paraphrase here--don't want to go look it up) "WE got him, not you!"

[Myrina]

7. Exactly!

Sigh. :(

I can't help but feel that this wasn't "justice", but that we just unleashed some badass karma on ourselves.

[OneGrassRoot]

9. I posted a graphic at FB that a DUer created last night/early morning hours...

It was more a slam on birthers but still...it included the words "I was too busy killing Osama Bin Laden."

While I appreciated the birther aspect, that line bothered me. Within seconds people were commenting, so rather than remove it, I ended up sharing my thoughts about the "grave dancing" later in that thread.

It's really hard to know exactly WHAT aspect of this people are applauding.

They could be applauding Obama for doing what he said he would do, and what Bush didn't achieve even though he said he would.

They could indeed be applauding the death of Bin Laden.

Or -- and this is what I'm coming away with this morning -- I think most are applauding what is, hopefully, the end of an era. Whether realistic or not, people want to see this as closure of sorts, and getting away from this war on terror.

I was initially really taken aback by the cheering last night, but after evaluating it and listening to people being interviewed, I'm not so sure my first impression of WHAT they were cheering was correct.

:hi:

[OneGrassRoot]

10. I also learned -- or confirmed -- something else about myself...

I am fairly detached when it comes to death.

Suffering, however, is another matter. I'm terrified of snakes, but don't want to see them suffer. I have no sadness over Bin Laden's death, feeling he chose it, but would not have wanted to see or know that he suffered.

I hope I would feel the same if I had lost a loved one in 9/11.

I find people who truly want to see public torture, executions, etc., very disturbing. And the mob mentality that is still part of human nature can go frighteningly off course from the original intent of gathering. That's true.

:scared:

[Myrina]

11. Threads elsewhere on DU expressing dismay are being swamped

... by "STFU", "he deserved it" and "Get the hell off DU" "Take your moral high ground and stuff it" etc etc ... we are acting from our basest nature today. Its obvious that we are no different than Freeper Neanderthals. Sadly. :(

I'm gonna away from this place for a week or so (at least).

[OneGrassRoot]

12. Americans, in general, seem to have a chest-thumping mentality...

A false bravado to hide our fear.

I hear you, Myrina. I haven't been there since around midnight and shall stay away, too.

:hug:

[villager]

17. DU in general became a kind of horrifying place last night...

With the gleeful bloodlust, chest-thumping, etc.

An absolute herd mentality. Posts deviating from orthodoxy/groupthink were snarked, attacked, etc...

A violent, religious fanatic met his inevitable end. Will that be a cautionary tale to other violent religious fanatics, here and abroad?

Will the decline/collapse of our militarized Empire now stop, or reverse, because of it?

We shall see.

On edit:

Some of the points about release for victims who experienced loss first hand raise compelling points, but I wonder what kind of "closure" this death will really bring? What will actually change in America now?

Color me skeptical, I suppose. I think the death announcement made me more sad -- for all the continuous loss -- rather than "joyous." What a waste it's all been.

[kentauros]

23. I suppose one could say that I'm desensitized, too,

but only because I'm really indifferent about the whole mess. For one thing, I thought he was dead already. Dead or alive, his existence (or nonexistence) didn't seem to affect the actions of Al-Qaeda worldwide. It will now, due to making him into a martyr. At the same time, this could very well re-elect Obama.

The "black and white" thinking seems to be endemic across the board at DU. You see it in R/T, GD, LBN, and even in the Lounge. Compassion, consideration and forgiveness seem to be sorely lacking in far too many DU-liberals these days...

[BanzaiBonnie]

36. THis morning, when I heard

Senator Kirsten Gillibrand say, “it’s one for the good guys,” it made me shudder, like someone stepping over a grave.

As long as we have people still talking like this I don't see chnge coming soon. But who knows. I hope we will learn both to listen to our own words and how they play into the current story we live with, but to understand the pain caused by continuing to live that story.

[Kind of Blue]

13. I'm not saddened by bin Laden's death.

A very long time friend from childhood, from Africa to America, was in one of the towers that went down with her youngest, 4year old son, leaving behind 2 boys. I spoke to Dad late last night, still living in Manhattan, and he said the boys - now almost young men - wept openly and bitterly and sobbed for hours. One of them who could finally speak said, "I'm glad, dad. I'm glad," and started beating his own chest. We know the boys did not cry all these years and dad knew that this was not good. After 10years, all their feelings of loss bottled up in throat-choking fear is being released. One of the boys has been considering West Point as a way of fighting terror. He's not so sure now, Dad happily said. He said, "I'm watching my boys future changing before my eyes."

As Lindsey says, I'm not a violent or vengeful person and I've not attached any outcome in the hunt for bin Laden. But bin Laden's death is bringing closure to two, perhaps three, broken spirits and I'm glad for the relief in my extended family.

[Lindsey]

14. Thank you, Kind of Blue for your story. I wish we didn't have

Bin Laden's and Hitlers on Planet Earth, but we do.

[Kind of Blue]

18. Me too, Lindsey. This is our reality

and it's messy. I can't imagine me or anyone telling, IMO, the great Simon Wiesenthal to stop hunting Nazis and war criminals. I don't know what karma we've created or maybe karma we've resolved as a nation, but I cannot agree that peoples' relief expressed in joy is totally unjustified.

[OneGrassRoot]

19. I don't buy into the national karma....

I think that is our individual choice as well.

edit for clarity

[Kind of Blue]

26. I think there is national karma,

family karma, and of course individual karma if my understanding of karma is cause and effect. I don't think that Hitlers and bin Ladens come about in a vacuum. IMO, al-Qaida isn't popping up in so many countries because the United States and other Western countries were so benevolent in the past. Sheesh, Hitler's idea of the concentration camp came directly from our Indian Reservation system and the outright slaughter of Native Americans, besides the heavy-handed treatment Germany was dealt after World War One. Cause and effect, I think, we experience it individually and collectively.

[OneGrassRoot]

29. Awareness....

Maybe that's the difference.

What you said makes a lot of sense.

Being aware of these karmic events, and choosing not to have our personal karma tied into it -- through the awareness, and whatever work we're doing to not be part of it -- is more along the lines of how I perceive it.

Versus being sucked into it.

Dayum, I can't give up that much control to The Powers That Be. ;)

[OneGrassRoot]

15. Thank you for sharing that....

:hug:

[Kind of Blue]

20. This morning I can think

of my friend and how we used to kick each others asses as kids from one continent to another and laugh a little instead of mourn a lot. I can't stand my feelings of relief, joy and sadness over her unthinkable death and our bin Ladens.

[OneGrassRoot]

22. ....

:hug: :hug: :hug:

:loveya:

[NuttyFluffers]

58. thanks for this. there is a time for being a paragon, and a time for compassion to the troubled.

and there is only so much that can be demanded from humanity.

may catharsis liberate these young men's future.

:hug: O8)

[Kind of Blue]

62. Thank you, NuttyFluffers. You've reminded me

of Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

To everything there is a season,
a time for every purpose under the sun.
A time to be born and a time to die;
a time to plant and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
a time to kill and a time to heal...
a time to weep and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn and a time to dance ...
a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing;
a time to lose and a time to seek;
a time to rend and a time to sew;
a time to keep silent and a time to speak;
a time to love and a time to hate;
a time for war and a time for peace.

That's us so far in a nutshell, the good, the bad and the ugly.

:hug: :hug: :hug:

[davsand]

16. The number of young people out celebrating really surprised me at first.

I could not imagine how anyone so young could carry enough hate to actually celebrate the death of another person. However, something was said last night that made me rock back on my heels a little bit.

Those kids--and that is *THE* operative term--those kids, essentially, grew up afraid of OBL. He was their boogie man under the bed, he was the one hanging out there posing a thread to their safety. He represented the fear that had been played (to death) by our media and sometimes our government. The kids learned to hate because the adults taught them to hate and be afraid. This is one more example of how words and deeds come to roost, and we all carry a certain amount of responsibility for the jubilation/celebration exhibited last night.

Make no mistake, I understand that this did provide closure to those who viewed OBL as responsible for 9/11. From the folks who were killed on those planes, to the First Responders, to the people at work in those offices--those families left with a loss probably felt that with his death an end had come. Can't presume that they all felt it was justice--and how DO you ever define justice in something like that?--but it was bound to provide a sense of relief, I'm sure. I won't take that from them. I just seek to understand--ya know?


Laura

[OneGrassRoot]

21. Well said, Laura

You bring up a really, really good point.

My impressions have changed since I first observed the crowds last night.

Basically, I don't think we can know exactly what is driving the reactions. It may seem like celebration over a death, but it could instead be relief at the end of a horrible era, even if that's merely hopeful.

This is something I don't think we can know for sure; I'm not sure most people are reflective enough to really understand how THEY feel, or why they feel what they feel. We can only know our own feelings about it.

[Ricochet21]

24. It may bring some closure and "satisfaction" to the victim's families

but I'm celebrating more bloodshed, no

[kimmerspixelated]

37. Agreed.

I am one of those skeptics that believe he was dead a long time ago. I support Obama, of course, but this is political timing, don't you think? Especially since, the body is already gone?? Lot of convenient answers.

[liberalmuse]

25. I'm not rejoicing, but...

Per say, but I'm relieved. It's been 10 long years of frustration and for some reason, the news last night felt like a release of sorts. I know that killing him won't solve the problems we face. I'm not jumping up and down for joy, and to be honest, I did feel elation when I heard the news, but had no desire to go out and celebrate and yell, 'USA! USA!' - that part - the nationalist celebration makes me uncomfortable, but I can't condemn those doing it, especially the kids who grew up with the fear propogated by Bushco. This must feel good to them.

[FirstLight]

27. it's a little early this morning for me to compute

and I do have some input on the hitler thing too... but it will have to wait till the fog has cleared :hangover:

BUT
If anything comes from this, I pray and hope and vision it to be a reason for us to BRING OUR TROOPS HOME, once and for all.

If the military needs something to do, we have lots of projects here at home, infrastructure, disaster relief, etc. Our military needs to have a paradigm shift...from killing to humanitarian aid. In fact, i'd like to hold the vision that ALL military will eventually be replaced by this paradigm.

That's the prayer i keep repeating to Spirit
there is no rejoicing in death
only thoughts of how to help the living who suffer

[Kind of Blue]

31. Yes, FL!

I live close to Camp Pendleton and there's no rejoicing here but it's really, really somber - maybe thoughtful and pensive are the words I see/feel on the faces our young men and women Marines - but I can't help but feel in a good way. I feel the paradigm shift you mention above and pray that it is towards bringing them all home in large numbers. I just love them so much.

[OneGrassRoot]

28. I really need to get away from this 'cause I'm being sucked into a hole....

of being unproductive...lol.

But your post, and mention of Hitler, brings to mind my "Illusion" post of a week or so ago.

I think I can summarize it thusly, using Hitler and Bin Laden as examples as you've so eloquently conveyed in this blog post.


On a spiritual level, many can see the lessons both men provided. Many are practiced at trying to find the "good" within horrific events and situations. There is always something which, if only in hindsight, is "good" for something, somewhere, for someone.

That's on a spiritual level.

Yet on a human level, in the day-to-day lives of many, these men caused tremendous suffering, pain, heartache, devastation, etc., etc.


As I've said ad nauseum above, I don't think we necessarily know exactly what is being celebrated as we watch the reactions of others. It depends upon their individual circumstance and how Bin Laden and the "war on terror" has affected them personally. It has affected everyone to some degree over the last decade.


Asking these questions so soon after an event may be akin to comedians needing to wait until a certain amount of time has lapsed before joking about something tragic.

Expecting people to put aside their very real human emotions and view things on a spiritual level -- seeing the lessons even heinous beings may have provided to humanity, or even to one soul -- may be a bit much.

While I don't condone grave dancing, I also don't assume I know what is the emotion and intention behind how others are reacting to this news about Bin Laden.

I do feel that, for the vast majority of people, asking them to view things from the highest perspective of seeing these men for the roles they played (with this human experience being an illusion) will fall on deaf ears and actually trigger the opposite response (chest thumping, defending their anger).

Instead, it is my feeling that inviting discussion, after the emotions subside, to really explore what people were feeling and why they were feeling it -- on a very human level -- is more effective.

Spiritual versus the physical human experience.

We need to heal the human experience in order for more to be open to the spiritual and "bigger picture" approach to life, imho.

That takes work. And patience.

I understand everyone's disgust with what they feel is blood lust, including here at DU, but I humbly ask you to try to look at it -- yes, from a spiritual perspective -- to consider what fears are in their hearts that are triggering their response?

That is where the healing has a chance to begin.

Okay, I'm done. Must focus. I'm sure you guys are glad of that!

:rofl:

:grouphug:

[NuttyFluffers]

60. you're very much on the right track. just as comedy is all about timing...

so is enlightenment. certain veils must be lifted before the light can shine through. and sometimes those veils are not removed so delicately, or without incident. the importance is not how the veil was lifted, but, after the shock subsides, what can now be seen.

[OneGrassRoot]

61. ....

You are my Yoda for the day.

I really appreciate what you've shared in the last few posts.

:hug:

[SCarrington Smith]

30. I really appreciate all the feedback

I too can understand OBL's death brought relief to the families of those who perished in the attacks, and in so many ways it allows a release of pent up anger and pain. And also, I'm sure I would feel more vengeful if someone I love was gone because of OBL's heinous acts. It's hard to explain the feeling I had last night -- in part, I felt that a chapter is closed, and this event will lead to a necessary crumbling; the other side of me cried in response to the awareness that as humans we are not able to see the full picture. Did anyone here see the movie "Legion" by any chance? The plot centered on the possibility that some of the demons attacking humans are actually God's angels (if you are interested, please read my full review on WRAL.com: http://www.wral.com/golo/blogpost/8021842/)
Somehow, I have to wonder if our limited human perception only allows to see what we want to see...

[Grateful for Hope]

70. Excellent post, IMO.

I think we all choose our roles in a given lifetime. Unfortunately, it seems we also agree to limited knowledge about our choices.

Just my own take.

:hi:

[Celebration]

32. I don't really *get* all the celebrating

It just isn't my reaction and it surprises me that so many react this way. Having said that, I am glad he is off the earth plane. It is a big disconnect for me that people get excited about it. Not sure that this is a "should" issue, though.

[eilen]

33. I'm still sifting through my emotions, how I feel about it etc.

I guess I am glad he is gone if he really was truly the person who masterminded all those terrorist acts.
It also makes me wonder if the people of Pakistan, Yemen, Libya, Iraq think of Obama the same way, considering the drone attacks etc.

When I consider he was once the ally of the US... Part of me thought perhaps he could have been brought to justice in the International Court-- like Nuremburg but then I can only see that that thread would lead to innocent hostages taken for his release.

He could have been hidden in the Bronx -- I am not surprised at the fact he was in plain sight.

I think it is good closure for the people involved. I wonder if it has anything to do with the timing (change to Pannetta) of the staff changes. I don't feel glee or celebration. I feel kind of empty about it. I wish this meant we would end our wars.

Part of me doesn't know how much to believe from our government.

[Matariki]

34. I just watched a couple seconds of video of crowds chanting USA USA

It made me sad. It seems so simplistic, ignorant and pathetic.

[kentauros]

35. About fifteen minutes into his show,

Dr. Wayne Dyer has addressed this issue, including with a reading from the Dao. I think he read the 31st verse, about weapons. Here's the verse, and his show is on Hay House Radio, if you want to listen to the repeat tomorrow :)

Dao De Jing, Verse 31

Translation by Peter B. Roth

Truly superior weapons are not instruments of fortune.

Beings seem to be loathing of them.

Purpose possessing Dao does not do what is proper.

The superior philosopher dwells on it, accordingly honoring the left side.

Employing weapons accordingly honors the right side.

Weapons are not instruments of fortune.

Not the superior philosopher's instruments.

They do not benefit him alone and are of use.

Peace and quiet make a superior man.

He overcomes but does not enjoy it.

As if the enjoying of it is to enjoy killing people.

If one truly enjoys killing people, then one cannot, thereby, gain resolution in the world!

Lucky dealings honor the left side.

Unlucky dealings honor the right side.

The second in charge approaching the general stays left.

The superior man approaching the soldier stays right.

Words are a cause of funeral rites doing what is proper.

Killing a person's people is a cause of sorrow, grief and crying.

Battle victories are a cause of funeral rites doing what is proper.
~~~

Dr. Dyer's reading from his book may be a clearer translation than the above, so if you have it, try that, too.

[Missy Vixen]

38. The celebrating is making me sick.

What exactly did we gain? I'm not sorry OBL is dead. At the same time, we're still fighting three wars. Thousands of families have that "empty seat at the dinner table" President Obama mentioned last night, and for what?

IMHO, but there has to be more. I'm wondering what that might be.

[Proud_Lefty]

39. My son posted this on Facebook

An eye for an eye will just make the whole world blind. Osama may be dead but that solves nothing. Hopefully this doesn't back fire.

I couldn't have said it any better.

[I Have A Dream]

41. I agree, PL. What a wise son you have.

It especially solves nothing because neither side has learned anything at all from this decade-long experience. Humanity is going to have to keep doing this until it "gets" it. That makes me so sad.

Civilization is just a thin veneer over humanity's still very primitive nature. The last ten years have shown me how primitive most humans really are deep down. :(

[Proud_Lefty]

49. It's been a rough day

People wanting to share their joy with me. One of my co-workers said something about this being important to prove to the world that we are not to be messed with. Sounded so childish, coming from adults. Didn't want to be a joy kill, but how does this help humanity. I agree with so much written on this post. I don't feel like grieving for Bin Laden, but I do feel like grieving for the heart of our country. Our emotions are being played by the powers that be, and it moves us backwards in a huge way, much like we were on that horrible day in September 2001. We were paralyzed with fear, pumped up with childish ego, and threw away all our ethics and resources to obtain revenge, before being assured we were even right in where we were taking out our revenge. We've killed thousands since that day while our government is falling apart and our country has rapidly decayed. Praying everyday for people to wake up and realize their true potential before we lose anything more of who we really are.

[PADemD]

40. He created his own karma.

52 “Put away your sword,” Jesus told him. “Those who use the sword will die by the sword. Matthew 26:52 (New Living Translation)

[Cleita]

42. I don't think we should be rejoicing any one's death.

The fact that he was removed from action as a threat is something to be grateful for and I can understand people breathing more easily for it.

[I Have A Dream]

43. That's my feeling exactly. nt

[findrskeep]

44. I knew there would be a post on here about exactly how I'm feeling

regarding OBL's death. All day I've been completely detached from any emotion over this, except for the fact that seeing the celebrating on tv all over the U.S. made me cringe. I don't understand how people can look at the death of one man as justice for all the deaths, on both sides...we've been at war for years and countless people have died and now there's one more dead. How does that make any difference? Maybe it will bring closure for some of the families that lost loved ones on 9/11, maybe not. Another thing I noticed today is just how many people are now saying, "We can end the wars now." It's unbelievable to me that they really think getting OBL will end the wars. But as my hubby pointed out, that may be just the thing that makes people finally rise up and demand that the wars end. One can hope...

[OneGrassRoot]

48. Exactly....

"But as my hubby pointed out, that may be just the thing that makes people finally rise up and demand that the wars end. One can hope..."

Wise hubby. :hi:

[Flying Dream Blues]

45. I wasn't sad to hear of his death but I knew

that celebration doesn't get us any closer to living on a peaceful earth. I don't judge anyone, especially those who were directly affected, but it just seems like such a disconnect. I think OGR helped me reconcile what I was feeling when she talked about separating the spiritual experience from the human experience.

The most compelling moment for me was when they were interviewing someone who lost a family member (her mother, I believe) and was now an advocate for other survivors. She was asked if this would bring any closure, to her and she said no, there would never be any closure because her mother would never be there, as she should be.

Of course, it is heartbreaking for this young woman on a very personal level, and yet I could not help but think of the many on the other side, just as innocent, having lost father, mother, brother, sister or child by our hands. And in addition, now may not have a home, or any semblance of their former lives, to help anchor them as they go through a tragic loss, or multiple losses.

It just seems so evident that as long (I just accidentally wrote "love", interesting) as we are still seeking to solve problems by killing people, we are lost, and only creating more suffering. I understand the human urge to hurt others who have hurt us, even if only to make them stop, but the futility and the blindness of that action break my heart and undermine my hope that on a human level we will make this spiritual ascension we are all hoping for.

We are them and they are us and we are one and we are all together, or as it was written: I am he as you are he as you are me
and we are all together...

[Gin]

46. I felt nothing when I heard the news....the cheering makes me

disgusted..having said that...I am not sad that he is gone.

[SCarrington Smith]

47. Thank you so much, everybody. :)

You guys totally rock. :)

:grouphug: :yourock:

[OneGrassRoot]

50. Someone just made an EXCELLENT point:

I think this is an EXCELLENT observation, and so true. In all the interactions yesterday, I never saw this point made: That it wasn't so much death being celebrated as it was the defeat; capture would have been celebrated equally.

I still believe that we don't know the reasons why people reacted as they did; I'm not sure most people have processed how they truly feel or why they reacted, initially, as they did. The college fratboy sporting event mentality that was shown on our TV screens was the most unfortunate and damaging, but I don't think those kids even knew what they were cheering for, quite frankly. I'm disappointed in any displays of blood lust but don't believe the grave dancing was as prevalent as some believe, and which has saddened so many.

I believe people would be celebrating just as much if Bin Laden were captured. I think it is because we have conquered a person who did such harm to our country and people and other countries and their people. We were brought to our knees on 9/11 and he was the leader of it all. And then for 10 years he avoided capture! He was winning and winning and finally we won.

:grouphug:

[BlueIris]

51. I'm...sort of embarrassed for anyone who thinks "rejoicing" is an appropriate reaction.

I feel sickened by the reactions I see from U.S. citizens celebrating a person's death, even if he was a bad, bad man. Further, I think being "happy" about an act which smacks of political maneuvering by a government deseperate to cover up its corruption and failures is missing the big picture.

[OneGrassRoot]

52. So, any common ground in this thread amongst ASAHers...

beyond "we all want peace and love"?

Or is that even agreed upon? That simple statement could be at odds with those who have professed wanting -- because they feel there is no other option, not because they're heartless -- chaos and destruction in order to build anew.

:shrug:

[MorningGlow]

54. Compassion

If we are paying attention and are mindful to practice compassion, we wouldn't treat this event like the hockey victory over the USSR in the 1980 Winter Olympics.

Seems like we agree that overcoming bin Laden was necessary, yet we might disagree as to how it was done and what this accomplishes in the long run. But...yeah...compassion. :grouphug:

[OneGrassRoot]

55. Yet how even ASAHers view compassion being put into action...

is likely not something we can agree upon easily.

The seemingly most basic things, when really, really delved into, are hard to agree upon, even here.

[MorningGlow]

56. I was thinking more about

compassionate awareness instead of putting it in action. But yeah, we're all variations here!

[OneGrassRoot]

59. "Awareness"....

so illusive and subjective, imho.

Thanks for responding though. :)

[NuttyFluffers]

53. we are humans. forgive one another to your capacity, especially yourself.

i judge no one for feeling what they feel. judging a feeling is judging a person; judging an action is judging an action.

certain actions, and its continuance thereof, require a judgment and/or self-defense. but the action is judged.

this may lead to feelings, sometimes contradictory or unsavory. however, if confused, revert to the beginning: judge the action and its intent, not the feeling and its catharsis. and if you personally feel others (or even yourself) in err for their feelings during catharsis, forgive. Forgive them for their action in extremis, and forgive yourself for your lapse of properly applied judgment (i.e. being judgmental of the individual).

[SCarrington Smith]

57. Very good point, NuttyFluffers

We still have a long road ahead of us...

[Kind of Blue]

63. Here's another writer's analysis

on why the young took to the streets cheering the death of Osama bin Laden.
http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=135957207&m=135965876
http://www.npr.org/2011/05/03/135957207/cheering-the-end-of-bin-laden-let-the-kids-yell

[OneGrassRoot]

64. Good stuff...

Thanks. :hug:

[Kind of Blue]

65. ...

Glad you listened :hug:

[SCarrington Smith]

66. That's very interesting...

Thank you so much for posting the links, Kind of Blue. :)

[Kind of Blue]

71. Hey, SCS. Got one more from the Dalai Lama.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0504-dalai-lama-20110504,0,7229481.story

Now I will stop sending other people's opinions. I guess I'm still working on my feelings about this :hug:

[SCarrington Smith]

73. The Dalai Lama never ceases to amaze me...:)

Thank you for sharing!!!

(((HUGS)))

[DeSwiss]

69. Osama Bin Laden Is dead -- Should We Rejoice?

- No. Not if we truly believe that we are all ONE.

Excerpt from:

"THE EGG"

BY ANDY WEIR
January 30, 2010

...

“I’m Abraham Lincoln?”

“And you’re John Wilkes Booth, too,” I added.

“I’m Hitler?” You said, appalled.

“And you’re the millions he killed.”

“I’m Jesus?”

“And you’re everyone who followed him.”

You fell silent.

“Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.”

You thought for a long time.

“Why?” You asked me. “Why do all this?”

...

http://imryanw.tumblr.com/post/362115206/the-egg-by-andy-weir">LINK-TO-THE-ANSWER

[SCarrington Smith]

72. I loved this...

Thank you so much for posting it. :)

[DeSwiss]

74. De Nada. I love it too.

- It encapsulates.... EVERYTHING!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KoR2t-iM9k&feature=player_embedded">