Greatest Disappointment in a Game

[YOY]

You remember that game you bought because of the pre-release hype? Maybe it was a sequel to one of your favorites?

Do you remember being utterly disappointed and bewildered that this was what you were waiting for?

For me that game was Master of Orion 3. I reloaded it recently in hopes that it was all just me. It was not. The game still bites and the mods made to fix those bugs and problems did not help.

So what was that game for you?

Honorable mentions:

Temple of Elemental Evil
Return to Myth Drannor
Dungeon Master 2 (gonna get flamed for that one.)

[Mojambo]

1. DW Bradley's Dungeon Lords

What a nightmare that game was!

I was also pretty disappointed in Temple of Elemental Evil, but Dungeon Lords was FAR worse.

[YOY]

3. I heard about it and avoided it...

Lotsa baaaaad things. Sorry you had to experience that.

[Mojambo]

5. Don't feel too bad. I always use filesharing to try PC games before I buy.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

2. DOOM 3, without a doubt. Warcraft 3 also.

[YOY]

4. WC3 and just about ever RTS are the same fricking game

There are some innovations and some great graphics and storylines, but they are all really just Dune over and over and over...

[TroubleMan]

7. Warcraft III? Are you kidding? That's one of my favorites.

The story was great for single player, and the on-line play was incredible. I liked the emphasis on heros it added.

I probably got more gaming hours out of Warcraft III for my buck than any other game, except for maybe GTA San Andreas, Morrowind, and Oblivion.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

8. Man I am loving San Andreas right now. Right at about 50 percent

completion. It's like a gigantic epic feast that you can eat for weeks.

I just unlocked Las Venturas finally a couple of days ago and had a laugh riding around looking at the casino knockoffs.

[The Revolution]

13. I hated the online play

Every single game was exactly the same. There wasn't any real stategy because everyone played exactly the same way.

[TroubleMan]

19. The custom games is where the variety is at (or was)

There were hundreds of custom games. After a year or so, I became a custom game player only - until FT came out which added a lot of variety for a while...then I went back to the custom games.

[lazarus]

16. how did it compare to Starcraft?

I LOVED the storyline in Starcraft, probably the best storyline I've seen yet in that type of game.

I think that may have been Total Annihilation's downfall; it was an incredible game, best one of the genre made, but the storyline part was very weak.

Of course, Red Alert 2/Yuri's Revenge had the best compromise between the two, IMO. Decent campaign mode, fun scenario mode. For scenarios, that's the one I play the most, until I manage to get my hands on TA again.

[TroubleMan]

20. Starcraft's is probably a little better as far as storyline.

The characters are slightly more in depth and there's more personal emotion involved in Starcraft. However, for an RTS WCIII has a top notch storyline (almost all Blizzard games do).

WCIII's on line play was very good (I don't know if it still is). I never got a chance to play Starcraft on line, because I had dial up when I played Starcraft. When I had WCIII, I either had DSL or cable.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

24. Starcraft online is the best online game I've ever played. Still active.

Worth checking out.

[sam sarrha]

32. STARSHIP TROOPERS SUCKS....!!!

[sam sarrha]

42. i only got about 2 steps into it and it became impossable.

[ContraBass Black]

6. Need for Speed 6: Hot Pursuit II

I only played the demo, but damn.

[lazarus]

9. Civ III

Didn't even feel like the same game remotely. I gave it a week, then went back to Civ II

[The Revolution]

12. I liked Civ III

I never went back to Civ II.

I got Civ IV as well, but the bugs made it unplayable for the first 2 months. I played one game once I was finally able to get through it without crashing every turn, but haven't played since then. I'll probably play it again sometime though.

[lazarus]

14. what I've gotten into

is the One City Challenge.

You play on a small map, Deity level. And you only get one city. Period. At this point, I've gotten so good at it, and played it so much, I can't play the normal way any more. I've tried, and I get bogged down with trade routes too fast. :-)

Plus, it's difficult for me to spend hours at the computer anymore, and I can do an OCC pretty quickly.

[NewHampshireDem]

10. Black and White

:zzzzzz: I could never train my little guy to do half the stuff you allegedly could train him to do ... like take a dump outside the freakin' town, for chrissake! And making him evil? Well, that was just as dull too.

[YOY]

11. I picked it up at the bargain bin

It did really get tedious...nice concept though.

I really wonder if they fixed those problems for B&W 2.

[lazarus]

15. It was a great concept

I enjoy playing it for a while. I agree that training the critter was near impossible.

I actually downloaded a couple of training programs, they helped a lot. You basically set them running, put your critter in, and left it alone overnight. Next day, critter is trained, for the most part.

[YOY]

17. Time to reload! Sounds good lazarus...

Trainers...so you leave them on your computer overnight while running the game? Don't the resources run out after a while?

[lazarus]

18. they're specially made

The one I remember best was for growth, to get the critter big. Some of them are also fairly repetitive, they're made to contain him in a small area while you just throw a ball back and forth for an hour or so.

[Hatalles]

21. KOTOR II: The Sith Lords... and Dungeon Siege.

And no, KOTOR II wasn't a disappointment simply because of the ending. LA gets a lot of heat for forcing the early release but IMHO, apart from the end, the game had many other serious problems. The end just seems to get the most focus. A few things I can remember off the top of my head: the storyline was an ugly, steeped in pseudo-philosophical force-mumbo-jumbo, lame, convoluted mess and the influence system was horribly implemented.

Dungeon Siege... I was expecting an RPG with interesting characters and a storyline. What I got was a clickity-click hack n' slash. It had one great menu screen opening though. :)

[YOY]

22. I liked KOTOR I and II but I agree on DS

DS was really just a disappointment on so many levels. Glad I never bought it.

[RoyGBiv]

38. Totally agreed ...

I actually played KOTOR II without reading any of the hype. I got it because I was randomly browsing one day, bought and then played KOTOR I, and decided I just had to get the sequel.

Well, the sequel sucked. And you're correct. While the ending did indeed suck, it sucked all the way up to that point as well. One, among many, things I really hated about it was the influence system. After playing I got into looking at how it all worked and realized none if it really meant anything. All the "mystery" was just a lame attempt at mystery.

[jayfish]

41. I Thought I Like Dungeon Siege Untill...

I went through all the levels backward after beating the end boss. I toll all of 5-minutes and I was like, "WTF is this, I swear it was longer than this". I didn't even bother with the sequel.

Jay

[Systematic Chaos]

23. Don't laugh, guys....

My biggest disappointment ever in a game was when I bought the PlayStation version of Monopoly.
I was living a very cloistered life at the time and had nobody to play the game with, but I have always loved it so I thought I'd give the game a try.
Imagine starting a 4-player game with 3 computer opponents where you are last in turn order, and the following happens:

Computer player one rolls a 5 and lands on Reading Railroad. He snaps it up for the $200 board price.
Computer player two, before rolling the dice, offers computer player one $100 for Reading Railroad.
Computer player one gleefully (as gleeful as a computer AI player can be, at least) sells Reading Railroad to computer player two.

There was no way to turn up the level of the AI, so basically you were stuck playing against a bunch of dyslexic, syphillitic babboons. Yippee! :(

I have had RPG's that were kinda disappointing, and a variety of other games in other genres for consoles and PC that were pretty lackluster, but nothing so far has beat the retardation of PSOne Monopoly.

[CabalPowered]

25. I'm with ya on MOO3

I have tried and tried and tried to like this game but it just plain sucks.

[YOY]

27. and the first two were soooo much fun!

That's what just kills me. It went from an epic of galaxy exploration and conquering to the ultimate in micromanagement and a diplomacy based on a perfectly simulated 5-year-old's outloook.

[CabalPowered]

29. Agreed! I still play the second one from time to time.

I can't get enough of the stellar converter. :evilgrin:

[Guy Fawkes]

26. MOO 3, Doom III: ROE...

I guess I don't buy into pre-release hype enough to have been let down a lot. HL2 and the upcoming Hellgate: London are the two games I'm most hyped about (with Bioshock in third). HL2 was amazing, and both Bioshock and Hellgate: London have a team that's sure not to dissapoint.

[YOY]

28. There's one more to get hyped about

Fallout 3. Bethesda Softworks is hiring for work on it now!

:woohoo:

[Guy Fawkes]

31. Fallout 2: the nixon doll.

"you don't know who this person was, but you somehow feel he is untrustworthy"

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

30. Deus Ex: Invisible War

After the sheer length of the original Deus Ex, the complexity, and the massive environments, I was eagerly awaiting the sequel.
When it arrived, I remember installing the demo, starting to play it and saying "what the HELL is this crap?"
Horrid character animations, over-simplified GUI (for the console version, ya see) zones that were smaller than my apartment's closet, and
they practically eliminated the entire nanotech augmentations part of the game.

You couldn't take thirty steps before you had to load a new zone.

It did incorporate the Havok physics engine, but everything you moved around moved like it was made of styrofoam. Everything bounced
like it had no real mass to it whatsoever.

Honorable mentions:
Thief: Deadly Shadows
Similar problems as with Deus Ex: IW. They were both made on the same engine, which the now-defunct Ion Storm couldn't figure out
how to make zones bigger. They should have talked to Crytek about making large zones.

Doom 3
Ooh...let's take this awesome lighting system and amazing graphical engine, and recreate the exact same gameplay that the original Doom
had (monsters spawning in front and behind you, monsters hiding in closets, super-dark rooms with tons of monsters that try to kill you) and no, making the player
switch from weapon to flashlight is not an amazing function of the game. It's dumb, and made more than one user mod the game to duct tape a flashlight to your weapons.

id's technological advancements are truly amazing, but what's the point of making such a magnificent looking engine and then making the game so fragging dark the player
can't see it???

[Salviati]

39. seconded...

I didn't even make it all the way through Invisible war... Every time I started to play, it only made me want to go back to the original...

[Lerkfish]

33. Fallout 2, even though I'm written in as a random encounter character

I dearly loved Fallout, started a fan group called the Unwashed Villagers, and we became such a presence on Interplay's message board we were written into the sequel.

which is cool.

but the sequel was outrageously tedious and boring to play, as opposed to the first.


sad, really.

[YOY]

34. Wow Lerkfish I didn't know! I feel as though you've a bit of celebrity then!

I rather liked the game. I really never felt it tedious at all.

I did miss Dogmeat though...

Now Fallout: Tactics...there was a pile of steaming feces!

[Lerkfish]

35. well, I mean compared to the first, I found the necessity of backtracking

over several places you've already been to complete quests tedious. I shouldn't complain, I guess, since I'm in it. But the original was so...great.



Yeah, I missed dogmeat. I wrote a poem about him:



Et tu, dogmeat?
by Lerk

Why'd they have to go and ruin things...
make all the feral doggies grey?
The angst, the shame, that karma brings
to have to blow them all away...

To hear their piteous yelp and whimper
when slaughtered by my sharpened spear
the loathsome snarl, the dark distemper
strikes in my soul a blackened fear

If only they didn't seem the breed
Of loved Dogmeat, years now missing
that canine hero of glorious deed,
sad so my heart to slay, no blessing

The therapy now that I will crave
When forced to snuff their candles out
Much rather would I wish to save
their loyal lives, turn them about

And make them followers of the ilk
that spawned beloved dog and friend
In them to plant the mercy milk
and ill intent within them end

But sadly, it was not to be
divines to what I dare not choose
for if it is not them, it's me
whose paltry life I soon will lose

So blast I must, and wipe a tear
and slice them left, and fore and right
I'll sob and moan at pain so dear
and send them into tunneled light.


and a poem about action points:

In praise of 10 magical action points
By Lerk

tis little known, the abject thrill
of ten little glowing dots
that make your combat worth the kill
no matter what be in your slots

First, pistol strikes become as two
when point cost registers five
Twice the chance to make them glue
while you remain alive

Second, is the slash and run
jab for three and flee for seven
expends their dots for movement, son
and you'll strike down from heaven

Third, it makes the backpack free
for stimpaks, tools and ammo
and still allots those points aplenty
to help make the gun go blammo

Fourth, to blast a deadly burst
from any hefty weapon's gold
and still have points left, at worst
to take your ammo, lock, reload

So, run with glee, and run amok
in comfort know this fact
better than strength, intelligence or luck
Is the ability to act!

[YOY]

36. Great!

Incidental I had no idea who you guys were until I met you in the game!

Like the poetry. I don't know how you feel about it, but Fallout 3 is in production. Actually, I am sure you know it!

Would you and your fellow villagers perhaps like to make a comeback? I am sure Bethesday might take an interest if they are truly fans!

[Lerkfish]

51. LOL! well, that's a long story

I was one of the original four founding members of the Unwashed villagers. Then it became insanely popular, swelling to as many as 100 members....and the inevitable fracturing of a large group. I objected to one moderator's banning of another member for purely personal reasons. Even though I was a founding member, it became....uncomfortable.... for me to stay involved as the newer, younger members outnumbered us older ones.
I was an old fart and kept trying to keep the peace and (mistakenly) enforce order and civility. After a while, I got a bit angry myself and let loose with a few rants. In the end, there was so much animosity it wasn't worth it for those of us over 30. I think persistently poking people in the eye is a younger person's game.

I have not been in touch with the group for several years now. As far as I know, the younger group still exists somewhere, but they made clear I was not welcome (LOL!). I was the artist of the founding members, and my illustration won a contest at interplay. sigh...

oh well, I'm still proud of being in the game.

and no, I hadn't heard about fallout 3. When it comes out, I'll get it of course.

[YOY]

55. A lot of the hard core fan base are skeptical

A possible dual release with the X-box and PC has a many fans worried. Bethesda using the Oblivion engine to run the game.

Possibly non-turn-based.

Possibly non-isometric.

Possibly not really done in the spirit of its predecessors.

There are no screen shots released yet and no one really knows. I'll reserve my real judgment for the moment I can actually play it and not cast any stones beforehand.

Quite a few folks are concerned it will be Fallout BOS all over again...

and you will always have a place of respect on our little gaming board! :thumbsup:

[Bjorn Against]

37. I know this will get me flamed, but Shadow of the Collosus

I really wanted to like the game, but it sucked big time. The boss battles were cool, but the rest of the game involved nothing more than riding your horse across an empty field. There were no new items to collect, no ways to improve your character, no small enemies to fight, no meaningful side quests and aside from fighting the bosses there was literally nothing to do. Once you beat a boss you go back to the same place, and see a new cutscene which is almost identical to the last cut scene you saw. It was just plain boring, and any Zelda game absolutely blows it out of the water.

The game is just so incredibly overrated it just blows my mind.

[YOY]

40. Halfway with you

I thought the visuals and music were incredible.

Spot on about the cutscenes and the riding...the riding...the riding...

Glad I rented it. Would not want to own.

[sam sarrha]

43. the Suffering was well named.. i really disliked the Medal of Honor with the little tags.. and 1942

just didn't make any sense.. the multi player was stupid.. it was just people just running back from re-spawn, ReVolution was stupid.. i just got stuck in an area because i couldn't jump over a box on a shelf to continue, had to crouch to get in and cant jump and crouch at the same time

[MonkeyFunk]

52. Agree entirely

it's like they took a good game, picked out all the boss battles, and made a new game out of them.

They should've built a story and a real game around those bosses.

[malmapus]

44. Neverwinter Nights 2

So much potential, but it was a let down. The camera controls pissed me off, most of the game. Story was a great disappointment lol.

[YOY]

45. One word :"ATARI"

It meant so much so long ago and now means Shitty Dragon Ball Z Games and the jerking about of the Dungeons and Dragon's License.

[malmapus]

46. Word!

Can't say much more than that...

[YOY]

47. You can, but who would listen?

Consider also transition of popularity from PC gaming to platform gaming as well as the standards both those game mediums carry.

No one wants to put a large investment into the creation of a PC game that will take more time an have a smaller return, when they can create a shorter game for a platform that has a greater chance or a greater return.

Mind you I love my PS2, but the significance of attention span needed to play the average PC game versus the a platform game that could be played by the most 'ADD' of 'ADD sufferers'* is amazing.

*I think 'ADD' is a personality trait not a disorder and the disorder crap was invented by big Phama...but maybe I'm just being a conspiracy nut...

[malmapus]

48. Dude, was just talking about that exact subject with work mates the other day

Taking games from like even 5 or 6 years ago and comparing them to the trash that is out today. I just about mark Baldur's Gate as the crowning point for PC as far as content and all is concerned. Then just having finished that sorry excuse NWN2, with the warlock class which seemed from my point of view nothing more than a class built just for these power gamers that have the short attention spans.

But yeah, games do seem to be very much "dumbed down" over the years.

[YOY]

49. BG II is my favorite game as well

I also consider it an apex in not only quality, game-play, but replayability. A lot of younger gamers just don't see the beauty of the game...(too much thinking???) but I have tried on a couple of occasions. Trying to explain that BG II is over 120+ hours of living breathing RPG that actually gives you CHOICES and has immense replayability) to a twitchy 14-year-old who thinks PC games are for old farts and that Kingdom Hearts is an RPG is so damn difficult and painful that I hope I never have to do it again. Mebbe one day those 14-year-olds will want a real game...we can only hope.

One recent discussion with one of my workmates (she's so oldskool I consider her a gamer god)...led to an interesting revelation (or at least her making me recognize something I knew about but never thought of in a certain way.)

The modding community for BG It's engine is alive and still kicking. For a game that old, that's pretty goddamn good. It is recognized by many gamers such as you and I as a pinnacle and that is not going away. Most games lose their fan base after 2 yeas max!

My main problem with most of those mods is few of them are consolidated to make decent additions (although I do know of one file that brings several fan-made mods in one workable package) and there is no 'unofficial fan-made sequel'. If it was easier to mod, then I'd gladly give some spare time to help the effort.

Regarding ATARI, just take a look at Temple of Elemental Evil: in concept a GREAT idea. In gameplay, buggy, underdeveloped, personalityless, and drab. Once either they actually put some money into making such a game or take just a little more time fleshing out a good vision well start seeing quality inovative PC games again. The fact is that they needed more money/time for better quality, but did not want to put the money into it for sake of profit margin in comparison with platform games they were developing.

Another factor in the lack of good PC RPGs (and perhaps decent PC games in general) is the popularity of MMORPGS. Lets face it, Blizzard is making buttloads. Everyone and their mother has been making or has released a MMORPG in the past few years.

[RoyGBiv]

50. More praise for BG ...

Not only is the modding community alive and kicking, it suffered the complete system meltdown of its former center (don't know if it was a hacker or what, but the site just went away one day) and re-emerged stronger than ever. I remember being on the Usenet forums the day that site died and reading the nay-sayer's predictions that this was the end, in part because the scripting guide, i.e. the modding community's compilation of commands and variables and what they all meant, was located there and had disappeared. A couple days later several people, myself among them, were taking their locally stored copies of this guide and uploading it to Usenet or otherwise distributing it far and wide. It now has a new home, at gibberlings3, I think, and has been expanded.

As I've said before, you can, today, play BGII, and spend hundreds of hours doing so, without ever touching the original story or even using the original NPCs, because of the mods.

Hell, even the GameFAQ forums still have an active discussion board for BG and BGII. Some games I played a year ago, that were the Next Great Thing at the time, have boards there than haven't seen posts in months.

Anyway ...

[TroubleMan]

54. I had no problem with the camera. I thought it was a great game until.....

SPOILERS.........
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
.
the ending. The ending if you're good is horrible. They could have done better than that. The evil ending was pretty good, but not spectacular. I was enjoying the hell out of the game until the ending, and then I was like "WTF?"

[BluePatriot]

65. Agreed...

the ending made me very, very mad. The rest of the game I did not find terrible, though.

[Broken_Hero]

53. This is an easy one...

Tekken 4...I am a very good player of that fighting game franchise, and after they released Tekken Tag(best Tekken game ever), I was excited to see what they would do for Tekken 4. The previews, game play looked good to me, and I wasted 50 good dollars on this poor excuse of a game....

I tried bringing it back to the store claiming it was defective, but the guys tried it on their ps2 at their store, and I was stuck with the turkey. So, I traded it in for 10 bucks, and got a MLB 2000 for the ps1.

The game was a waste...they screwed my favorite character, Jin. Totally revamped his moves, and fighting style. They also tweaked, as in made worse the throwing capability, and the counter/counters function...Countering moves is hard to do in the first place, and the way in which you counter, a counter is to damn easy...I guess a lot of players were pissed about the counter method, and Namco changed it. In Tekken Tag, they have that feature as well, buts its harder to pull off.

[rockymountaindem]

56. Medieval II: Total War

No more hand-drawn unit cards, the map isn't as good as either the 3D Rome: Total War map, nor as nice as the artistic MTW Original. The supposedly improved AI is just a joke. And, my worst complaint... it is impossible to have a successful campaign as any faction on the eastern half of the map because nobody can beat the Mongols. So you play for about 5 hours and build up a nice little empire only to have it smashed in about 10 turns. At least in the original the Mongols were tough, but beatable.

[YOY]

57. Are the Mongol's so tough?

I assume a patch might come out with the slight taming of the Mongols.

Shame, 'bout that...

[rockymountaindem]

58. Yeah, they're pretty tough

I was playing as Poland, and the Mongols had already had to fight Russia and they were still too tough for me, even though I was the best power in Europe at the time (they give you percentage rankings). It's like this...

I was number one in military and number two in financial (I was only 3% behind the leader, who I believe was the Holy Roman Empire). Then the Mongols show up, and according to the percentages they have three times as much money and three times the military power of me and the Holy Roman Empire. Basically, they are 1/3rd more powerful than the top two European factions combined. Moreover, most generals I've seen have five command stars, max. Those guys are pretty rare, too, with the majority of generals having only one or two stars in the command ability department. The Mongol generals all have at least eight command stars, with some having ten. It's rediculous... they come at you with more money, more troops (and all cavalry, which are expensive to produce) and then following the game mechanics become automatically adept at laying siege to huge fortresses I've built up for 200 years. It's insanity. Ordinarly two fully-stocked armies operating in the same area can't be beat. Then you see the Mongols coming at you with 5 full-stack armies, and you know that's just the advance party... it's just nuts.

Why should I spend hours building up an empire just to have the Mongols clean my clock? I'm starting to think the only way to keep them at bay is to play as England or Portugal. Even when I was playing as Denmark they overran my settlement in Finland and there was nothing I could do about it even though I'd built the most powerful military machine in Europe. It's just insane.

Furthermore, the map graphics aren't so hot, and the little videos which accompany all the events are cool the first two or three times, but I'd rather see them gone and the space used for a better map and a better AI.

[YOY]

59. I did some googling: you are not alone

I expect a patch soon if there does not already exist one.

[rockymountaindem]

60. Could you point me to some of those sources?

I'd be really interested in seeing what they have to say.

[YOY]

61. Here are some folks who are discussing it after a quick google

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=931592&topic=33304965

At the bottom of the 1st page of my google search I saw a link for the game being discussed at Stormfront (Skinhead assholes.) Money says they're not too good at using more suble strategy in such games...Hell, I'd be surprised they could read the manual. I'm then again it would allow them to dream of their ultimate dream of a German conquered Europe/Mediteranean...

I wonder how Nazi fucks would feel about getting their asses handed to them by Mongols...

[rockymountaindem]

62. It seems like everybody has a different experience

But someone I read who posted that the Mongols come in waves with six full-stack armies per wave... jeez. I'm sorry but that's impossible to beat even on medium difficulty.

[YOY]

63. War of attrition. Wear them down with superior tactics

use of terrain as a natural weapon (bridges and mountains are awesome natural defense points. I have dusted large armies before using this method (Using strong defense on key points & focusing missile troops on their damned general...)

If they defeat the first army let a second and third smaller defense force wear their boulder down to a pebble. It still will take a few saves and some solid luck.

[YOY]

66. I've been playing it

I like Rome better as well. The calvalry charge into peasants sending dead/dying men into the air isn't there! WHY WOULD THEY TAKE THAT OUT?!?!?! It was awesome watching poorly armored men fly like birds as you rushed your general into their flank or rear (or even directly in some cases!.)

I do like the attention to unit detail though. Meh. It's not that bad!

[lovelaureng]

64. Diablo

I thought that after a while it got pretty boring even to the end levels. Gameplay was really the same all the way throughout the game. Just my opinion, I realize that it was an extremely popular game.

[Bjorn Against]

67. I loved Diablo, and Diablo II was even better

I am guessing you probably played as the Warrior in the first one, because when I first played the game I played as him and I too was extremely disappointed. Once I tried the Rogue and the Sorcerer however the game was a whole lot more fun.

Once Diablo II came out however the original Diablo just didn't cut it any more as the second one is far superior.

[Odin2005]

68. Civilization III

The AI was absolutely PATHETIC. Infogrames-Atari also rushed the damn game against the will of the developer Firaxis and basically abandoned their customers. people at the Civ message board I post at, Apolyton Civilization Site ( http://apolyton.net ) came to call Infrogrames "Infogreed." Thank God Civ4 was MUCH, MUCH better and well made.

[sam sarrha]

69. Quake 4, my grass grows faster than it reloads.. piece of crap game