Everybody "fired up and ready to go" !!!!???!!!1!!

[Catchawave]

I'm not :cry:

Dammit, Hillary should have been conceding to Edwards today. Not losing the primary to what's'is'name. Oh, right, the community service guy who gave an anti war speech in 2002, in a safe, veryblueliberalsouthsideChicago area for an antiwar crowd. Sigh.

I guess the good news is that Bush will be gone no matter what happens :silly:

I'm waiting for the #2 pick now. I do remember how I did have this feeling in 2004.....and 2008....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXW480B4ENs

:grouphug:

[saracat]

1. Not me. Not "fired up " at all. I have NEVER felt this way before.

[Catchawave]

2. I hear ya....

:hug:

[MissDeeds]

18. Same here

For the first time in my life, I feel apathetic about the upcoming election. Always before, if my candidate was knocked out in the primary, I could realign my support to whomever got the nomination, believing our party would put forth a good and viable candidate. I do not and cannot feel that optimism now. Our candidate's resume is too flimsy to inspire much confidence.

[Seabiscuit]

3. I'm so UN "fired up" I'm about ready to quit DU altogether.

[Catchawave]

12. I'm waiting to see what happens....

...after Skinner's deadline to "get the disappointments and gloats" out our system :silly:

[balantz]

4. You mean this fired up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj6dkZ5DDPA

[Catchawave]

8. Funny !

Thanks for that :hi:

[benny05]

5. No, but Hillary did the right thing

But the Dems may have screwed themselves. Hope not.

:shrug:

[Catchawave]

9. Do you remember the OAC and 2004 ?

Wonder what would have happened to us if JRE wasn't on that ticky? I remember being online late one night that summer....and someone leaked (I think it was from a pilots' message board?)that a guy who just got off duty saw them painting Edwards name on Kerry's campaign plane....the announcement was the next day! We were all hoping that it wasn't a hoax, but I was very excited that night.

[balantz]

11. I just jumped into this stuff recently.

Can you explain? I am curious as to what you are talking about.

[Catchawave]

25. You mean the OAC....?

benny and I were members of the One America Committee blog back in early 2004. Of course, sad with JRE's departure in March, and I think most of us became quite apathetic then also. Kerry was indeed the chosen one in that primary, but was able to close the deal much quicker than BO has done (which speaks volumes to me). Our support for JRE was pretty much similiar to how Obama supporters crave "change", beginning with getting rid of the DNC "Old Guard", which has certainly embraced Obama (change? ha!).

Kerry was an acceptable candidate but thousands of JRE supporters petitioned the DNC to put him on the ticket, or we wouldn't support Kerry. Something to that effect.....as Dems were pretty much united against Bush, and not nearly the infighting we had these past few months.

This time is so different, as most JRE and HRC supporters don't want them near an Obama ticket. Some of us are exploring options....http://blog.pumapac.org/ sites like this are popping up everywhere and I honestly don't remember them in 2004 ?

From 2001....http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2001/0110.green.html

We lost the best thing that ever happened to the Democratic Party :cry:

[bobbolink]

6. Is something burning? I must have missed it.....

:yoiks:

[Catchawave]

13. See post #4 :)

:rofl:

[maryf]

15. A really insipid thread was just locked as too inflammatory

Can't even get fired up about people's obtuseness, I guess.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3404299&mesg_id=3407542

[ClericJohnPreston]

7. Yeah....

I watch the Obamites....they are all fired up with nowhere to go. They only have free reign on this site and everywhere else in the liberal blog kingdom. They are the political equivalent of GRAFFITI ART, as far as people want to call that art and expression.

Sorry if my tastes are a bit more sophisticated than spoon-fed mass hysteria. I don't do hysteria well, nor am I a fan of torchlight evening marches, if you get my drift. The latter example shows how well, "popular" opinion works.

Finally, what popular opinion? By my reckoning, HRC won every LARGE and important State, while Obama racked up....what exactly?

He aint no Edwards, is he?

Guess my days for uttering TRUTH are numbered, huh? Time to tow the line, huh?

[Catchawave]

10. We're not the only ones who notice.....

...several conservative blogs...that dislike McCain....think the Obama supporters are going to blow it if they don't start effing try to unite with the Clinton supporters...and everyone else. There's still exodus from Daily Kos because all they can blog about are McCain's yellow teeth and age. Sigh. Juvenile and destructive. I see no hope for DUnity until the riff-raff leaves.

:banghead:

[maryf]

14. Just a practice run

For when uttering the truth may be a more serious infraction.

(On an aside, you may want to check out some graffiti art sites, some of it is quite sophisticated, beautiful, and very socially aware. Its not all bubble letters and slang. I'll try to find a good link. The stenciling can be quite intricate as well).

[ClericJohnPreston]

16. Uttering Truth will be an infraction

When almost 50% of all voting Dems voted ANTI-Obama; how do you expect to mandate an everybody lets be happy atmosphere?

This will be my greatest lie since the "check is in the mail".

[maryf]

17. The everybody

who could possibly be mandated to be happy, will have to wear blinders and earplugs in the days to come to pretend. Or take a pill.

[ClericJohnPreston]

19. I will closet myself here

and watch as the Obamites descend on us like vultures to carrion.

It will be interesting to watch Obamites come into neutral ground, Switzerland if you will, to insure that no one, NO ONE, mocks or criticizes Obama. As this place is "sanitized", it will be interesting to see if it will last until Obama flames out and carries his minions with him.

I will be in deep sleep, waiting...............I will not forget what words were spoken in GDP, or who those speakers were. There will be a day of reckoning when speech is allowed again. It is always darkest before the dawn.

The sun will rise on DU again. When it does, I will be there.

[maryf]

20. But don't forget

The sun can burn and might fire you up.

[Horse with no Name]

21. Not even close.

:hug:
But no worries...my energies are being directed other avenues.
I agree with the feelings from 2004.
I promised myself that I would not compromise my principles again.
There are other places that I can make a vital difference where I do NOT have to drink Kool Aid.

[Greylyn58]

22. Not even close...

I've never felt less ready to go in all my voting years.

I feel like a dreamer who can see an accident unfolding before them, but can do nothing to stop or change the event as it happens.

It is a sickening, stomach churning feeling.

[ClericJohnPreston]

23. Made all the worse

by the absolutely infuriating Obamite deadly combination of political inexperience and OVERCONFIDENCE.

Neophyte meets reality. It won't be pretty.

[redqueen]

24. deleted

[Yael]

26. Farethee well.....

He thought we were kidding when we said there would only be so much tolerance for the badmouthing. Didn't even make it to Wednesday.

[Two Americas]

28. who is this "we?"

Who decides whether or not something is "badmouthing?" Why would "we" be intolerant of dissident opinions?

[Yael]

30. CJP.

I kept trying to tell him that the mods weren't going to allow the trash talking in a few days. Apparently, they had enough today of his attacking people. Don't know why or when, but he got TS'd.

[Two Americas]

35. and that interests you why?

Are you certain that the cause in which you are laboring so hard is worth the damage you are doing to your former friends? Are you certain that you will win, and that you will never need the ones you are prepared to banish?

You were never on CJP's side, nor are you concerned about the well-being of any of us, so please stop with the "I am only trying to help" bs, OK?

[Yael]

36. Actually, I WAS on his side. Thread after thread back in January.

When I got behind another candidate at the end of February (...and because it wasn't Hillary), I was berated unbelievably in here.

When I say "I am only trying to help", I mean that I have seen enough TS's the last 3 months to have a feel for where the tolerance line is. I have even likely crossed it myself more than a few times. CJP kept telling me that I have no clue and that he was the "real democrat" that the site wanted. If others choose to follow in his footsteps, they may also end up with a TS -- and that doesn't hlep anything.

They are serious about enforcing the rules, and rants against other forum members like he was posting need to stop.

I know that some may feel that the best thing that could happen is for the Democrats to lose in the fall to "prove a point", but I am not in that camp. I stand behind the nominee that was chosen by the people. The one who is going to be partnering with Elizabeth Edwards on the health care platform.

While I preferred Edwards' populist approach (as did many of you), I am not willing to see the democrats lose so that we can plan some kind of idealist revolution in 2012 to take back what McCain doesn't completely destroy.

It is sad to see so few in this forum with that kind of fighting spirit and optimism. I am relieved that one such instigator is no longer here instigating.

We have a really good chance of getting our country back and taking ENORMOUS gains in Congress and I for one am happy about that, even if it isn't my preferred methodology or my preferred individual leading the charge.

[Two Americas]

39. all right

I think the picture you are painting in this post exists primarily in your imnagination.

[Horse with no Name]

42. Not to mention the posts looking forward to the

"extermination" of those who disagreed with the masses. Something doesn't sit quite right. For some reason, this assclown thinks SHE is the one who decides who gets tombstoned around here.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5554660&mesg_id=5555006
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5554660&mesg_id=5555379

[Yael]

43. I don't decide anything

I do gamble though. I have a lit of about 10 9 that I think are going to prefer to flame out.

I have never shared that list with anyone, nor will I. It is just my personal predictions. I also don't alert on anyone on that list of 10 9 because I don't want to be the cause of their demise. Those folks are doing just fine on their own.

So far, only 1 has come true.

[Horse with no Name]

44. You have strange hobbies n/t

[Two Americas]

45. what the Hell is the matter with you Yael?

"I'll go ahead and add you then. Its for the inevitable game of tombstone schadenfreude that is coming."

That was murielm99 you were threatening there.

You are lying to say that you are not calling for purging and banishments and when you deny taking an active role in this disgusting effort and deny that you are enjoying the pain and discomfort of your former friends and allies. You are lying when you say you are just looking out for us and passing along friendly warnings.

[Yael]

46. What active role?

I came in here in March and was torn to pieces on a thread about Edwards' poverty efforts, then left again leaving you all to yourselves.

I see regulars from here in GD-P slinging insults at the members and our nominee, and I came BACK in here to caution them to cool it.

Cripes, some of these folks are worse than the His44 people with their attacks, and no, not talking about Murielm99.

I am taking no active role any more than you are -- and that is posting my opinion on a democratic website. So, once again, will leave you all to your party.

Senator Edwards would be greatly disappointed in people using a forum with his name to attack the Dem nominee and those members who support him. He is bigger than that, and I guess I had hoped everyone who respected him would be as well.

[cornermouse]

47. I went and looked up the thread where you think you were

"torn to pieces" and that is not what was said or done. I even posted the link to the thread for you so that you could see the proof for yourself since it was clear your memory was inaccurate. You are trying to get revenge for something that never happened. You haven't been cautioning, you've been threatening. You are trying to assume authority that you don't actually have unless your name is actually Skinner, Elad, or Earl.

"We want our non-believing friends to be treated with gentleness, respect, and kindness as they witness the truth and love of Christ, and come to a saving knowledge of Him. (1 Pet 3:15; John 3:16; Mat 11:28-29)"

Interesting. Did you really say that elsewhere because if you did, the contrast is incredible.

[Yael]

56. I am a Christian, but I have never made that statement.

Would love to know what the whisper campaign on this one is.

I even tried googling for it. Nada.

[cornermouse]

58. There is no whisper campaign that I know of.

But then, I don't have a lot of contact with DU'ers outside of the DU threads. And you apparently aren't very good at Googling either.

[Horse with no Name]

59. Whisper campaign?

:rofl:
These people are drowning in their own paranoia.

[Horse with no Name]

60. You know, the more I think about the machinations of projection

I'm guessing there is probably a whisper campaign amongst certain "oppositional DU'ers" to target certain members on lists that they keep.
They troll around in forums where they know they will find them (because those members who just want discussion with like-minded people do not frequent the echo-chamber forums) and bait them and then call in the forces to get that particular member TS'd.
Come to think of it...I am pretty sure something along these lines exist.
If I were the admin of a message board...if I noticed any sort of pattern that a whisper-campaign was underway...I'd boot every one of the motherfuckers.

[Horse with no Name]

29. I'm sure you are gleeful

How many times did you hit alert?

[Yael]

31. Wasn't me. I rarely alert

and normally it is for trash talkers with under 20 posts.

[maryf]

50. Yep, but

Is it really overconfidence or insecurity, a feeling that he knows he's not really ready? Maybe a surface denial of reality, but he got roped into it? I do wish he'd waited 10 years...I might actually be glad then.

[Two Americas]

27. Republican women

I spent the weekend in right wing Hell, and had some interesting in-depth discussions. Something took me completely by surprise. The guys dominated the discussion and yapped about the usual stuff - Bush's brilliant plan in Iraq, how Mexicans were destroying our country, etc. The right wing program, insofar as the people who support it see it, is really nothing more than racism in various manifestations. White guys are getting screwed, they are the "real Americans." I wanted to know what wives thought so during breaks I struck up conversations with them. These women are extremely conservative by the way. What surprised me is that they spoke positively about Obama. They didn't talk about positions or issues or anything political, but rather about process. "He can bring different groups together and reach understandings to solve problems." Just as many Democrats are projecting what they want to see onto the candidate, so too these women are doing that, and just as many Democrats are doing, they are putting style and personal qualities of the candidate above politics in importance. "He is being positive about things, and you can't get anything accomplished if you are negative" they said.

[Catchawave]

33. Is that good or bad ?

That is, style over substance?

Most non-political (those who don't pay attention until after the conventions) usually vote for the person they simply like the best. How did that work for us with Bush ?

Worry.

[Two Americas]

34. dangerous

Style over substance is dangerous when the style is used to disguise the substance and mislead people about it.

[Catchawave]

38. Thanks. I thought so...

I just got back from a week with my Florida Republican relatives....who did support JRE, until they found out when they showed up at the polls THEY MUST BE REGISTERED DEMOCRATS ! (Here in VA, we have no such rulez, every state should be Open in the primaries!) Now they'll vote for McCain in Nov. Wonder how many Edwards votes were lost in this "system" ? I think over 20 states played "gotcha" with the voters?

Not to mention, if we had the winner takes all, instead of the M.I.T. level math skills required for divvying up delegates, when would Obama have dropped out?

[maryf]

53. Great line, NT

[Two Americas]

32. an enlightened being

Is Obama an enlightened being?
Spiritual wise ones say: This sure ain't no ordinary politician. You buying it?
By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist

<snip>

Warning: If you are a rigid pragmatist/literalist, itchingly evangelical, a scowler, a doubter, a burned-out former '60s radical with no hope left, or are otherwise unable or unwilling to parse alternative New Age speak, click away right now, because you ain't gonna like this one little bit. Ready? It goes likes this:

Barack Obama isn't really one of us. Not in the normal way, anyway. This is what I find myself offering up more and more in response to the whiners and the frowners and to those with broken or sadly dysfunctional karmic antennae - or no antennae at all - to all those who just don't understand and maybe even actively recoil against all this chatter about Obama's aura and feel and MLK/JFK-like vibe. To them I say, all right, you want to know what it is? The appeal, the pull, the ethereal and magical thing that seems to enthrall millions of people from all over the world, that keeps opening up and firing into new channels of the culture normally completely unaffected by politics?

No, it's not merely his youthful vigor, or handsomeness, or even inspiring rhetoric. It is not fresh ideas or cool charisma or the fact that a black president will be historic and revolutionary in about a thousand different ways. It is something more. Even Bill Clinton, with all his effortless, winking charm, didn't have what Obama has, which is a sort of powerful luminosity, a unique high-vibration integrity. Dismiss it all you like, but I've heard from far too many enormously smart, wise, spiritually attuned people who've been intuitively blown away by Obama's presence - not speeches, not policies, but sheer presence - to say it's just a clever marketing ploy, a slick gambit carefully orchestrated by hotshot campaign organizers who, once Obama gets into office, will suddenly turn from perky optimists to vile soul-sucking lobbyist whores, with Obama as their suddenly evil, cackling overlord.

Here's where it gets gooey. Many spiritually advanced people I know (not coweringly religious, mind you, but deeply spiritual) identify Obama as a Lightworker, that rare kind of attuned being who has the ability to lead us not merely to new foreign policies or health care plans or whatnot, but who can actually help usher in a new way of being on the planet, of relating and connecting and engaging with this bizarre earthly experiment. These kinds of people actually help us evolve. They are philosophers and peacemakers of a very high order, and they speak not just to reason or emotion, but to the soul.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2008/06/06/notes060608.DTL&nl=fix


As with so many things about the candidate, it is either true or not true depending upon the context. Those of us who have been pointing out the New Age aspects of the campaign, the guru-like religious appeal of the candidate, and the cult-like following have been mercilessly attacked for saying that. But here, from a supporter and in another context, the very same thing that is denied in one setting is now trumpeted and praised in another.

[Yael]

37. I am breaking my rule here

Why must you post things that tear the candidate down?

This isn't about policy -- it is an OpEd about personality.

[Two Americas]

40. WTF?

The article praises Obama. Nor did I criticize Obama - I am criticizing some of his supporters.

That is the real problem isn't it? It has nothing to do with beating the Republicans, and it has nothing to do with Obama. Many Obama supporters are hiding behind the campaign and using it as an excuse to act out some very authoritarian and suppressive ideas, and to fill some personal emotional needs. Now why do you think some of us would criticize that? To hurt the party? To help the Republicans? Or could it be because we ARE loyal to the party and we DO want to beat the Republicans, and because we see a dangerous and self-defeating trend within the party?

[saracat]

48. TA you rock. You may well be my favorite DUer and you can write!

You are better at debate than almost anyone I know! :yourock: The problem is not may of these neophytes can even keep up with you!

[Two Americas]

49. thanks so much

That means a lot coming from you saracat. Thanks.

I am mourning the loss of CJP tonight. I think that is going to be a turning point.

[cornermouse]

41. That is really weird.

The author is mental. He needs a psychiatrist or an exorcist.

[Andrea]

61. This is terrifying

I hope no one agrees with the writer of this article. If so, they are crying out to be deceived. They are willingly handing over their free will and critical thinking powers. This is the very definition of a personality cult. I can't bear to think that people would make important decisions such as who to vote for on this basis.

[Two Americas]

51. another example

The following has already been posted as a positive pro-Obama thread. However, if I post it, the exact same material becomes an anti-Obama post. Strange, isn't it? I have never seen anything like this.



Libertarians and Conservatives for Obama

June 9th, 2008 by Ron Chusid

I’ve discussed several time how Barack Obama is receiving support from many libertarians and conservatives, as well as libertarian aspects of Obama’s views. This includes favorable comments from David Friedman. Bruce Bartlett has an article on this support in The New Republic:

The largest group of Obamacons hail from the libertarian wing of the movement. And it’s not just Andrew Sullivan. Milton and Rose Friedman’s son, David, is signed up with the cause on the grounds that he sees Obama as the better vessel for his father’s cause. Friedman is convinced of Obama’s sympathy for school vouchers–a tendency that the Democratic primaries temporarily suppressed. Scott Flanders, the CEO of Freedom Communications–the company that owns The Orange County Register–told a company meeting that he believes Obama will accomplish the paramount libertarian goals of withdrawing from Iraq and scaling back the Patriot Act.

Libertarians (and other varieties of Obamacons, for that matter) frequently find themselves attracted to Obama on stylistic grounds. That is, they believe that he has surrounded himself with pragmatists, some of whom (significantly) come from the University of Chicago. As the blogger Megan McArdle has written, “His goal is not more government so that we can all be caught up in some giant, expressive exercise of collectively enforcing our collective will on all the other people standing around us in the collective; his goal is improving transparency and minimizing government intrusion while rectifying specific outcomes.”

In nearly every quarter of the movement, you can find conservatives irate over the Iraq war–a war they believe transgresses core principles. And it’s this frustration with the war–and McCain’s pronouncements about victory at any cost–that has led many conservatives into Obama’s arms. Francis Fukuyama, the neoconservative theorist, recently told an Australian journalist that he would reluctantly vote for Obama to hold the Republican Party accountable “for a big policy failure” in Iraq. And he seems to view Obama as the best means for preserving American power, since Obama “symbolizes the ability of the United States to renew itself in a very unexpected way.”

You can find similar sentiments coursing through the Boston University professor Andrew Bacevich’s seminal Obamacon manifesto in The American Conservative. He believes that the war in Iraq has undermined the possibilities for conservative reform at home. The prospects for a conservative revival, therefore, depend on withdrawing from Iraq. Thus the necessity of Obama. “For conservatives, Obama represents a sliver of hope. McCain represents none at all. The choice turns out to be an easy one,” Bacevich concludes.

How substantial is the Obamacon phenomenon? Well, it has even penetrated National Review, the intellectual anchor of the conservative movement. There’s Jeffrey Hart, who has been a senior editor at the magazine since 1968 and even wrote a history of the magazine, The Making of the American Conservative Mind; and Wick Allison, who once served as the magazine’s publisher.

Neither man has renounced his conservatism. Both have come away impressed by Obama’s rhetorical acumen. This is a particular compliment coming from Hart, who wrote speeches for both Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan. They both like that Obama couches his speeches in a language of uplift and unity. When describing his support for Obama, Allison pointed me in the direction of a column that his wife (who has never supported a Democrat) wrote in The Dallas Morning News: “He speaks with candor and elegance against the kind of politics that have become so dispiriting and for the kind of America I would like to see. As a man, I find Mr. Obama to be prudent, thoughtful, and courageous. His life story embodies the conservative values that go to the core of my beliefs.”

But, if you’re looking for the least likely pool of Obamacons, it would be the supply-siders. And you can even find some of those. Take Larry Hunter, who helped put together the economics passages in the Contract with America and served as chief economist for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. He concedes that Obama is saying the wrong things on taxes but dismisses it as electioneering. Of far greater importance, in Hunter’s view, is that Obama has the potential to “scramble the political deck, break up old alliances, and bring odd bedfellows together in a new coalition.” And, what’s more important, he views the Republican Party as a “dead, rotting carcass with a few decrepit old leaders stumbling around like zombies in a horror version of Weekend at Bernie’s, handcuffed to a corpse.” Unless the Republican Party is thoroughly purged of its current leadership, Hunter fears that it “will pollute the political environment to toxic levels and create an epidemic that could damage the country for generations to come.”

PhDiva has a listing of prominent Obamacons. (Hat tip to Andrew Sullivan)

Update: Another sign of the continued influence of Chicago school economics on Obama. Greg Sargent reports that Austan Goolsbee is back acting as a surrogate on economic matters. (Now if they can return Samatha Power from her exile due to calling Hillary Clinton a monster we can return to the Austan-Power team of advisers).

http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=3384

[maryf]

52. OMG

The study in contrasts between the two articles you posted is mind-boggling! And yet both support him. Will the real...

[Two Americas]

54. unstable politics

Things are really volatile and unstable, and the coalitions that have held the two parties together are both falling apart. Or at least that is what I have been saying.

Isn't this the strangest thing you've ever seen?

[Andrea]

62. Yes, the strangest thing. n/t

[Two Americas]

55. reconciling the two, or three

Apparently, Obama is New Agey, and that is the most important thing for liberals, and "free market" and that is the most important thing for the right wingers, and religious-y and that is enough for the evangelicals.

Are we seeing a convergence of New Agers, libertarians, and evangelicals? Are those each merely different "paths" to the same goal - happy lives for the gentrified suburbanites?

[balantz]

57. How frightening.

It's like a giving in to a selfish and narrow mindset.

Is it a discarding of democratic values?

Is it a final strangling of The New Deal?

Is it an acceptance of what the Democratic Party has become?

Is it a turning away from the lower classes and their needs?

Is it a "Good German" phenomenon?

[Two Americas]

63. true, or not true

If that bothers you, then it is not true that Obama is a cult movement. If you think it is a good thing, then yes it is true that Obama is a cult movement. That to me is the most telling and worrisome thing. The same thing can be true or false, depending upon whether or not you are a cult member. So he is an enlightened being if you think that is a good thing and a reason to follow him and what is wrong with you for not getting it, but if you say that people are following him because they think he is an enlightened being, then it is not true and how dare you accuse Obama of that.

[balantz]

64. Not sure what you're trying to say TA

But I do see it as cult behavior and very dangerous for Democracy.

Good God no he's not an enlightened being.

[Two Americas]

65. cognitive dissonance and disconnection

Some Obama supporters will see the same exact facts as either true or not true, depending upon whether they are used to support the candidacy or criticize it.

[balantz]

66. I see what you are saying now.

Yes, I agree, that is exactly how it appears to be.

[bhikkhu]

67. Not to butt in, but has anyone read Gore's "Assault on Reason"?

It carries along the same theme of another of my favorite books, "The Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan.

In both cases, the argument is that in the US a decline in teaching standards and media standards leads to a decline in the quality of thought processes, or generally the ability to reason, or to even recognize a reasoned statement from opinion or deceit. Following the conclusions, "cult behavior" (by many definitions) might become more or less inevitable in politics as well as religion as the bases for other behaviors becomes less common.

I don't blame Obama, myself, as we are all equally members of the culture in question.

[Two Americas]

68. thanks

I agree that it is not necessarily Obama's fault.

[Two Americas]

69. kick

Kicked and saved.