Does whether or not one trusts John Edwards depend on how one grew up?

[smokey nj]

I've been reading all the posts in the "Honest to God. John Edwards gets it..." thread and it got me wondering. In response to IsItJustMe's moving account of how s/he grew up, many other posters told their own stories of growing up in poverty and all of them support John Edwards and seem to have no doubt about his committment to fighting poverty. I find myself wondering now about the life experiences of all the naysayers who go on about his haircut and the big house and use them to defend their accusations that John Edwards is merely a pandering phoney.

Here's a link to the thread if you haven't seen it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4154805&mesg_id=4154805

[Andrea]

1. I haven't read that yet, but

I do think it may make a difference how you grew up. I grew up in relative poverty and I have no problem believing him. I know if I ever got well off enough to afford a house like his or a silly $400 haircut, I would still not forget where I came from and would want to fight against poverty. He seems to remember what it was like and to not want anyone else to go through that. I have no question about his truthfulness.

OTOH, it may be partly influenced by my previous career. I worked in loss prevention, where I was trained extensively in detecting dishonesty by verbal and non-verbal cues. It is second nature for me to check people out while watching them speak to look for cues of dishonesty. John comes across as very straightforward and honest.

[smokey nj]

3. To me it seems as if they begrudge John Edwards his success - like how dare some

poor kid do well financially and still have the nerve to say he cares about the poor. Frankly, as someone who didn't have much growing up, I find it rather insulting.

[Andrea]

5. Yes, I think you are right

I work closely with and for some people who grew up rich - very, very rich - and they don't regard people like me as equals at all. It doesn't matter at all that I am smarter, kinder, better educated, more resourceful, more talented or anything else - I am simply labeled and categorized and my type doesn't deserve what they have or even to be listened to. I'm sure they feel like John Edwards is exposing the great lie they build their sense of entitlement on.

[Two Americas]

9. revealing, isn't that?

In other words they are saying that getting ahead means that one must have contempt for those they are climbing over. Says something about how they view the way things should be, doesn't it?

[smokey nj]

10. It pisses me off coming from so-called liberals and progressives.

FDR, JFK, and RFK all had large houses, and somehow THEIR advocacy for the poor is considered more legitimate. Yet they consider John Edwards, who actually LIVED it, a fraud - as if it's impossible to climb the economic ladder and still remained connected to one's roots.

[Two Americas]

14. a tacit admission in that

People are saying that getting ahead must come at the expense of others, as though that were the natural order. They are admitting that they believe that some must lose for others to win, that prosperity for the few inevitably and always will be at the expense of the many. Is that not the core foundational notion of the right wing ideology? If you accept and promote that, what difference does it make how fancy and shiny the "liberal" or "progressive" camouflage you put over it?

As someone once told me many years ago, no matter how much food you add to a plate of shit you still wouldn't want to eat it.

[benny05]

2. I think there is something about Identity Politics

Chris Bowers from Open Left and I had discussion about this 10 days ago as Open Left has been touting this meme for awhile. While Clinton talks about working for the Children's Defense Fund and Obama says he worked as community organizer in Chicago, neither one of them really experienced an economic struggle growing up. I think they both understand that folks have struggled, but it's not the same as when someone like JRE's family struggled. He truly believes that it is time to raise up the poor into the middle class and grow it.

I wrote my own story at MyDD a couple of days ago. Here's the link. While there weren't many comments, it resonated with the folks there as it was on the recommended list for nearly 24 hours.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/1/21/114426/672

I think when you meet the man, and he looks into your eyes while you talk to him, meaning he is really listening to what you say, that trust develops right away. I can see why he was a very successful lawyer as those families he represented trusted him to do the right thing: seek justice on their behalf.

I'm lucky I've had some private time to tell him my story.

We really need him and Elizabeth in the White House. Too much damage has been done in this country, and he will work hard to tackle the corporate lobbyists who have had too much welfare dumped from our pockets into theirs.

[smokey nj]

4. Wow benny, your story brought tears to my eyes.

Although there's a lot that I can relate to, so much of what you went through makes my childhood seem like a walk on the beach. Thank you so much for providing the link.

I don't think a lot of the bashers get the fact that John Edwards HAD TO EARN A LIVING after he graduated law school. People don't realize that most working class people don't have the luxury to accept low-paying, resume building opportunities like community organizing and the Children's Defense Fund because they just can't afford to. When I was in college, I had to turn down an internship at the U.N. because it was unpaid and the stipend they offered didn't cover the cost of the commute NYC. My husband couldn't accept a White House internship for similar reasons.

[benny05]

6. And John and Elizabeth were not together their first year

of marriage. They were in different places with clerkships. Yet they stayed strong.

[smokey nj]

7. I didn't know that about John and Elizabeth. They're two people who never cease to amaze me.

We need strength like that in the White House.

[Two Americas]

8. yes

Absolutely, that is a factor. People must be honest with themselves about the way they grew up, as well. It mainly is a matter of with whom people identify - the upper 10% or the bottom 90%, and many people feel that by identifying with the upper class they are more likely to become prosperous or be "winners." They "visualize abundance" and try to emulate and think like the "winners" and think they should "fake it until they make it" and they think that "rich people are just people and deserve a break too!" and "poor people aren't any better or more virtuous than rich people so stop romanticizing them!"

The people saying that Edwards is a phony are thinking the same way as people who say that homelessness is a choice, or that poor people are lazy. This is an extreme right wing argument in disguise - it may be the core and central right wing argument. "Oh those poor people, you know how they are. Always looking for a handout or a way to scam the system or run and angle or a con."

It is not so much that they are implying that Edwards is pandering, the real message is their view of whom they imagine he is pandering to, and their contempt and loathing for those less fortunate than themselves. They cannot say that overtly and still with consistency claim to be Democrats, so they couch it all in insinuations and euphemisms.

[smokey nj]

11. You are so right. I think they also have a problem with the fact that John Edwards

doesn't condescend to the poor and working class.

[unc70]

12. How they grew up and maybe where

We never went hungry, but we often heard "Don't let your wants hurt you.". I knew many who could not say that.

In my case, it was the rural South in a racially mixed community -- most rural ones are. Isolated. When I was born, it was several miles to a paved road or a telephone. Hand pump and an outhouse. All that changed over the next 10-15 years. (The phone was initially on a 10-party line!)

It wasn't easy for anyone and it was really difficult for many. Since everyone, of all ages, worked hard, I did not fully appreciate just how poor some people were, how vulnerable. Neighbors shared what they had, when they could and sometimes when the couldn't. If you got lucky fishing, then you might stop by a couple of neighbors who didn't get out much these days and see if they might like a mess of fish. The bounties of gardens were shared back and forth. Fallen trees became firewood for those who still heated with a wood stove.

This community had a surprising number of college graduates, black and white, nearly all women school teachers. My mother was one of those teachers. In my generation, a high percentage attended college, at least for a while.

I believe John Edwards. Part of it may be what I have seen up close.

I wonder whether the stereotype of a "Southern white man" makes it harder to people outside the South to believe him.

[smokey nj]

15. Geography may have something to do with it, but if you read through the thread to which I linked,

there are stories from cities as well as rural communities. The common denominator linking all the posters is economics.

I grew up in Bayonne, NJ - a mostly blue collar, working class city - and while my family wasn't destitute, we didn't have much. Both of my parents had to work just to keep us afloat. We were always one catastrophe away from falling into the abyss. I have no doubt that John Edwards means what he says.

[unc70]

17. I agree economics is primary.

I did read through the thread. Totally agree about those who have experienced or at least seen up close the ravaages of poverty.

As a Southern white man, I am aware of stereotypes that other parts of the country have about the South. I sense that those who do not have the strong experience wrt poverty are too-often dismissive of John because of their biases against So.WM. Maybe it is against rich.

[Two Americas]

18. northerners don't appreciate some things

Anyone can be a liberal in the North, and one easily can be "racially tolerant" - it costs nothing. What was it Dick Gregory said? - "Down South they don't care how close I get, so long as I don't get too big. Up North they don't care how big I get, so long as I don't get too close." Northerners, especially New Englanders, are blind to their own prejudices and bigotry. They can't "read" Edwards - "if you've seen one redneck you've seen 'em all."

On the other hand, one of their own such as Kerry can have all sorts of flaws and it doesn't matter because they can relate to him. God, Kerry was a nightmare to try to promote in rural Michigan. Why does the party again and again select the worse possible candidates? It is as though the Republican party selected Kerry.

"Let's make up the worst possible candidate for the Democrats. He would need to be from New England. If he were professorial and erudite, that would be perfect. The more he seemed to talk down to people, the better. A long term senator would be good, because he would have a record we could pick apart. Could we associate him with the Kennedys, or better yet Jane Fonda? An anti-war protester hippy from the Viet Nam era would be great. The more we could associate him with all of the festering wounds from the Viet Nam War, the better. How about if the guy married into fabulous wealth? We could use that. A foreigner for a wife would be good, especially if he has been married more than once."

The red state versus blue state nonsense reinforces the prejudices of the northerners, and it gives a false picture. The South is more rural, and rural areas are more conservative. Look at the red-blue map broken down into counties and you can see a more true picture. Michigan is a Democratic state because Detroit is in it. Mississippi is not a Democratic state because Detroit is not in it. Otherwise there is not much difference between the two states. And even in the reddest counties, you still have 40% or more Democrats, and in my experience that is where the strongest Democrats are.

[smokey nj]

19. As much as northerners like to pat themselves on the back for being racially tolerant, they're not.

Last year, I scolded a 20-something co-worker at my old job for using the "N" word.

[AndyA]

13. I believe John and Elizabeth Edwards are the real thing.

They are as genuine and down to Earth as you can get. Neither of them have to put themselves through this. They have enough money to retire, live as they wish, do everything they could possibly want, and never worry about paying bills or making ends meet.

But they remember all too well the struggles on the road to success; and they want to make sure others have a fair shot at the same success they've enjoyed.

I admire them for that. I believe John Edwards is the humanitarian of our generation, just as Rev. King was such a man in the sixties.

If John Edwards isn't our President, I believe we will all live to regret it down the road. We are at a crossroads now, and must decide which way to go. For me, the direction is clear: John Edwards.

[smokey nj]

16. I couldn't agree with you more. I don't have a runner up in this race, it's Edwards or nothing

for me. If either Clinton or Obama is the nominee, I'll probably vote for them in the election but that vote will be cast with little enthusiasm.

[MzNov]

20. Growing up in a pro-union democratic household

has a lot to do with my view of JE. He is tryting to bring back all of the values of those days by recognizing the middle class in this country. Plus just having that inner voice telling you someone is not being straight with you.... Obama and Hillary activate some uneasy feeling in my gut that they are not genuine, ya know.

Howdoya like my new poster?

[smokey nj]

21. When I hear Obama and Hillary discuss the poor and working class I find them

to be very condescending.
I love the poster!!!
:hi: Sesame!! :hi: Simon!!!

[MzNov]

22. Edwards has never retracted any statement that he made yesterday!

Like Obama saying "What I meant was" !!! especially about Reagan. Edwards says what he means the first time because no one is telling him what to say in an earpiece. Furrcrisssakes.