Why did John throw in the towel?

[Ninga]

Very late last summer and early fall I defended John Edwards on these boards.

I touted his strategic abilities, and wrote over and over that "it was up to Edwards to execute, adjust and formulate his campaign strategy"

I was very confident that Edwards would be able to adjust and realign his campaign as the dynamics unfolded.

I also wrote that if he was able to pull it off, knowing full well at that time, the Clinton/Obama story line would overshadow the primary season, Edwards would be the President for the ages.

Well, we are not going to get that President, are we?

With the luxury of hindsight, I now believe Edwards made a very bad move dropping out when he did. I do not know what instinct or decision making process he used, but the very systems that made him successful in his private career, failed him in his political one.

His dropping out did not avoid a mess, it created a bigger one.

[Lugnut]

1. It sure did.

I feel as though I've been abandoned.

[vireo]

2. We're left to speculate

But I agree with your assessment.

[Catchawave]

3. He was "standing in the way of two historic candidates" and was pushed out.

That's how I see it.

Do you ever wonder if Hillary and Barack were white males, we'd be on top of the world right now? I do.

[Ninga]

4. He stepped aside, willingly or not, and it is not clear to me, to what end.

Principles and people were pushed side for the bigger interests of the party and those at the top with an agenda toward history.




Before he suspended, Edwards polled very well in Ohio vs. the GOP.

If over 400,000 people voted for him on Super Tuesday after he suspended.....what would the count have been if he hadn't?


I guess I don't know anymore what it means to be an Edwards Democrat.

[waiting for hope]

44. Ninga honey -

I truly believe Dean and others pushed him out. Dean so much wanted a nominee by Sup Tues and I think he honestly believed that by Edwards dropping out, his supporters would have all gone to Obama (the more I see, the more I think Obama is the establishment candidate) - Dean thought wrong. John did not give that speech in New Orleans, he read a speech and he flubbed. Have you ever heard him flub? He said he almost changed his mind, and I think he did and by not endorsing, I think he's giving the middle finger to the powers that be. He was in it till the convention - someone pulled some strings and this is the mess we are in.

[Seabiscuit]

57. The most disturbing thing to me is that whatever pressures JRE was under

it is totally unlike him to give in to outside pressure. He's been a fighter all his life.

Part of me still wonders if he or his family was threatened in any way.

He gave no reason for his departure in New Orleans... just awkardly broke into "So it is time for me to suspend my campaign". Huh???

I trusted him to keep his pledge to go all the way and never imagined that any outside forces would ever knock him out of the race/undermine his determination.

Then *poof*! He's gone.

Of all the myriad and monumentally depressing things about this election cycle, this is the most depressing of all.

[flyarm]

5. i was in Columbia SC and at the post primary rally with John..

i was inches from the podium..he walked right next to me going to the podium and he said hi to me..as i also worked in Iowa for him ..i was a 2004 delegate from Elizabeths hometown..i know he recognized me and he said hi and thanked me for coming to SC to work for him..

he gave his speech..and it was not a speech of someone who was going to drop out..

all his staff had just gotten their assignments and were excited of where they were going..( or not)
I tlaked to Joe Trippi..and Bonior..and neither showed any signs that the campaign was about to end.

Stuff was being boxed up and being sent to other cities from the headquarters and from the sub -headquarters..

there was talk that John was ahead in the polls in Tenn. and OKLA...there was a very upbeat feel among everyone. The debate the week before had awakened alot of people..

knocking on doors..we all heard the same thing over and over..had the repig primary not been the week before many ...if not most ...who voted McCain..would have voted for John after seeing him in the debate...it was overwhelming how many people said that..and many many were pissed the repigs did their primary the week before the dems..may were confused by it.

I will say this..i do not know this for fact..but i believe..me...i believe this ..that John was stgrong armed out of the race by someone..or some ones..i do not believe he left willingly.

His speech was not his own..it is the first time i saw him ever ..read a speech..they were not his words..he was forced out.

somehow or someway.

and that i truely believe.

fly

[Ninga]

6. fly, at my own expense, I went to Charleston to work for Edwards the week before the SC primary.

I saw John at the College of Charleston rally, the night before the SC primary. Cate and his parents were there too. It was a small but very spirited rally.

My first hand experiences with the Edwards campaign, mirror yours.

Having said that......the silence since he dropped out is very disturbing.

The before and after pictures don't compute.


I just can't figure it out how anyone could strongly "arm out" the John Edwards who is such a tough fighter.......


Thanks for your response.

[flyarm]

7. oh wow you prob met a lady i worked with in Iowa..she was over in Charleston as well

oh and i totally funded myself as well in Iowa and SC at great expense..and i bought food etc for volunteers at headquarters..and paid for and took another 2004 delegate with me ..to do volunteer work for John..

Several of the lawyer volunteers i worked with from different parts of the country feel the way i do..and some were very close with John...something happened between that Saturday night and Wednesday..

and His dad came into our sub headquarters that saturday late afternoon..and he seemed happy..and i saw he and his wife at the marriott that night walking around..happy go lucky..saying hi to everyone..

I talked to the finance guy's wofe after the rally..i had met her In Iowa..and she gave no indication ..none at all..in fact she said she was going on to Tenn...

something happened..i don't know what..but something did..

and i know a lawyer who was also in Charleston who said a big convention of Lawyers had just collected and was sending in big time bucks..in the millions..on that sunday..

so ..who knows..something just does not smell right to me.

fly

[balantz]

8. How will we ever find out?

Will John ever speak about it I wonder?

[saracat]

11. I think the truth will come out one day.And if this thing blows up, maybe sooner rather than later/

[flyarm]

13. maybe a book? who knows..most sleep with that info forever!! eom

[saracat]

15. I also ask about Mario Cuomo and why he "stepped down". They say he was on a plane to announce

candidacy, and got a call on the tarmac. He turned the plane around, went back to Albany and announced he wasn't running. I wonder if John got the "same " call.

[flyarm]

19. as a flight crew i was dead heading one time a few years ago now..and

i sat from NYC to SFO ( san fran) next to Mario in First class..well i was thrilled to say the least..my husband was meeting me in San Fran as he was out there to visit his family..and i talked to Mario about politics for 6 straight hours!!....He was one of the most sincere..gentle man i have ever met!!..

fly

[saracat]

9. Fly and Ninga, I have had the opportunity to meet with John many times and

I swear he did not "suspend" of his own accord. If you remember, after that so called "speech" that he read and stumbled through, he said that thinking of the people the night before "almost" made him change his mind. It was clear he didn't want to do what he was doing and Elizabeth seemed angry.When asked she only said."Its a complicated day". What the hell does that mean? And Elizabeth doesn't BS. Add that to the fact that John seems in no hurray to endorse and his "leaked" thoughts about Obama, which I believe are true,by the way. You could see in his face the growing dislike for Obama when Obama zinged him in that last Debate referring repeatedly to himself as the "African American" , Hillary as the"woman" and then pausing to add, "John" , indicating with distaste that he was a creature apart a "white male.". Why the hell that isn't "racism and sexism,",I don't know. Can you even begin to imagine what would happen if Edwards had said that sentence in reverse? I am sorry but he would have been lynched.

I can mirror all your stories in Phoenix. John had doubled his numbers in three days. We were getting ready to get some exposure at the Super Bowl and we had already gotten some media. We had made arrangements for John to get a venue to speak. We did all of this with zero campaign money and no office.Both Hillary and Obama blanketed the whole area.We had local law firms behind us and were working out of one of their offices. We had just had that enormously successful fundraiser effort.We had ordered 1000 dollars worth of signs that arrived the day after he suspended. Tuesday night the campaign in Chapel Hill was upbeat and still affirming we were "in till the convention". John had 19 mil in the bank and had taken a 6 mill ad buy.

What Fly and Ninga are saying is what is seeping out as common knowledge among campaign faithful.For whatever reason it appears John was "forced" to take a fall for the DNC. And these stupid, stupid, Obamites are worried about the Super Delegates? That is the least of our problems and I fear , from what I have been told by several sources that ought to know, that this whole nomination may blow up in our faces.And, I guess i am vindictive , but I say , they deserve it. This appears to be a case of "being careful about what you wish for".

[balantz]

12. Saracat, what do you mean by "this nomination might blow up in our faces"?

I'm still rather new to politics beyond plopping my "X" down and am trying to keep up with how the process works with delegates and all.

[saracat]

14. Just that there is more to Obama than is seen and he is NOT

what he appears to be. There is info that the campaigns held and that the GOP will use.

[balantz]

17. Oh, gotcha!

I fully agree. I think he is a "snake" and no different than Clinton in many ways. Like I said elsewhere I can only imagine at this date seeing myself vote for Obama (or Clinton) if John gets on the ticket. I would have to trust John's choice and follow his lead, since I really don't know what else to do at this point. It's hard to imagine John going with either of the two, but in the political theater there are often less desirable choices a politician may have to make. It may be one option where he might see some ability to do good.

John is the greatest. Americans have let the fascist propaganda machine tickle their fancy and they have accepted a loser over a winner. I say woe to us.

[flyarm]

18. yep and suposedly ..it is big..and do not think the RNC won't use it!! eom

[flyarm]

16. i have heard the "blow up in our faces " stuff too..and i wondered in Iowa who will tell the story?

i know there are people who know what the story is..and about who...i just wonder..why it is not coming out of the dems first??

but i was also told the messenger may well get smeared equally ..but the media knows what the story is..and i am sure the RNC has a good grasp on the story as well.

that is all i will say.

fly

[balantz]

20. Sounds like some of you who worked hard for Edwards

and are more on the inside know some things. I will just have to respect your silence on that and trust there are those working on it in the correct fashion.

I do know that what I heard about this bussing thing in Iowa was unfair in my book. I hope there is something concrete to be followed up on that.

[saracat]

22. I understand there was a LOT of that going on and I find it odd that it isn't being addressed

but then I have NO idea why Obama is getting the pass he is on absoluytely everything.

[balantz]

23. THAT is a big question!

The free pass. From whom, and why?

[saracat]

26. Everyone it seems. There was apost earlier about the Obama campaign

hiring a "mind control" expert that taught supporters to go and share "conversions", I swear to youm I cannot make this stuff up.

[balantz]

28. Oh I read that one.

Scary shit. We are living in the twilight zone.

I only wonder, is this the twilight before night sets in, or twilight before the sun rises?

I'm tapping my glass-slippers together and nothing's happening!
:scared:

[flyarm]

29. can you send me a link to that thread? thanks!! eom

[flyarm]

32. me either...and there are Lawyers that know and media ..and yet crickets...eom..

[Ninga]

21. Right now, the ticking clock is our biggest enemy. The longer this mess goes on, November is

looking more and more like a sure thing for the other side.

The big joke in all of this is that the fat cats who wanted control over all other things, are not starting to lose control.

Between the super delegates mouthing off, the switching, Fla and Mich......I could go on and on and on.....but I am just one very small and insignificant person, and all i can do is watch the imploding.

[Hermes Daughter]

39. I agree it doesn't make sense

Elizabeth's body language (and few words) at John's speech in New Orleans said worlds. She was angry and not herself. And it happened too fast -- out of nowhere. But I don't feel like the push came from within the party. I don't think they're that powerful and besides, John has made it a part of his campaign to stand up to them. Why would he cave in then. It's almost like it was CFR or Bilderberg or... I don't know. I think someone did put pressure on him, maybe even demanded it. I know the neocons have been wanting to run McCain to lose, then take back the White House in 2012. They picked Hillary and, although it looks now like O-bot is going to win, the Rezko thing is going to be unbelievable when it hits. I think John's reluctance to endorse is part of his inability to betray his supporters and truly leave. I think he is waiting. For something but I don't know what. This is a man who is the equal of the Clintons in knowing how to play the system. He is weighing his options and going for 2012 I'd say. He has not given up. But I wish I knew who did it and why he agreed. I will post more on Rezko later...

P.S. I'm glad you asked the question, Ninja, and so many with inside knowledge here agree - Fly and saracat.

[ChiciB1]

42. I'm Bitter & Cynical... Don't Know About Vindictive... But I Sure Feel

he GOT SCREWED! And yes, you could see that Elizabeth wasn't a "happy camper!" I have kept the email with the video and text! It sucks, BIG TIME!!

How I wish I could have met him! Got to shake his hand once in 2004, but that's it! You know??? FLORIDA!!!

[Ninga]

10. I met an attorney from NC who had come down to Charleston to phone bank.

Plus, Danny Glover at the Pipefitters Union, had a terrific rally.

We were all pumped by the MLK III, letter, we made thousands of copies and handed them out in intersections and gas stations and on the street out side of hotels.....



Great stores we could tell each other.....but damn it...

[pamela]

24. Hey fly,

I read something interesting about that lawyer's convention you mentioned. Check this out... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/27/AR2008012702192.html

The Obama and Clinton folks were at that convention "poaching" John's supporters. I think there is more to this story than meets the eye. I think it may be part of the pressure that was applied to get John to quit.

[saracat]

25. Not Fly but I read this earlier and i really think this attempt to "poach'

was an ongoing thing and was not the reson for the "abrupt" departure. JMHO. The majority of Edwards "new" money was already at that point coming from regular folks anyway.Plus is you notice, they said the trial lawyers were "passionate" about having Edwards keep his voice in the race.

[pamela]

27. No, I don't think it's the reason either...

just a piece of the puzzle.

The article itself has to be dismissed because it was probably planted in the media anyway. They used terms like "gently approaching" etc... to imply that this was done "respectfully." They are also quick to point out all the things that were going wrong with John's campaign that might lead the lawyer's to switch allegiance. This is bullshit, too.

I think more went on at that convention than the poolside chats. It's not the reason that John dropped out when he did but the timing is significant. I think it may be part, just part, of the pressure applied to John. Not, "Hey John, some of your main financial supporters are defecting..." but, "John, we are going to make this impossible for you. We are going after you."

This is just a tiny piece of the puzzle.

[flyarm]

31. you are right ..it is only a small piece of the puzzle..indeed the one Big lawyer i talked to

said the lawyers sent in a big donation that sunday!!in the millions........plural..

fly

[pamela]

33. That's what struck me about this fly.

Because I trust you WAY more than The Post. I think this was a cover story, part of the "John Edwards is losing support" meme but also part of the threat.

[flyarm]

37. that i don't know..i have tried to not speculate..but i know that is hard..

i believe even well placed people in Edwards camp still don't have any answers..but then someone else emailed me and left me hanging..and with even more questions than answers..

i just can't even try to speculate..and i really don't want to..i just can say what my gut tells me..and i do not believe the saturday night in Columbia SC thay John was planning on ending his campaign.

fly

[flyarm]

30. yep!! that is the one..thanks for the link..i just sent ti to several of the lawyers

who were on the ground for John in Iowa and SC..they will be mighty pissed!!

fly

[dajoki]

34. I agree...

IMO,he should have stayed in to at least gather delegates to use to broker his issues into the party's platform. However, I have no idea what prompted his decision to get out when he did, it just seems odd that he didn't stick around until "Super Tuesday", just to see what happened.

[ChiciB1]

35. I Really Want To Respond To This Here, But It May Not Be Popular....

I have said before, I think he was pushed or something like that... I think THE D.C. Elites made a decision a long time ago. But I also think the D.C. Elites screwed up. We have said we WANTED John Edwards to STAND UP for "we the people" no matter what, and he said HE WOULD!

But take a look around, EVEN Hillary Clinton is getting "bruised" if not actually "beaten!" Looking at ALL THE POWER she was given, MAJOR, MAJOR MSM coverage, she herself is struggling. I do think there was a PUSH behind all of this, and I also think it's "political gaming" at it's worst! We are just seeing it "up close and personal" and apparently the shoe doesn't fit very well.

When you get battered and beaten, it does NOT mean that you abandoned your message. It ONLY MEANS that the mountain you had to climb had a very slippery slope! Let's NOT blame John Edwards for what has transpired, lets try to understand that this time around THE FORCE was determined to "make history" and John Edwards, the best candidate was in affect pushed off the road and onto the OFF RAMP!

How long could he have stood his ground before they crucified him, or even worse called him "the man" who stood in the way of "making HISTORY?" I know, it an over simplification, but it seems that there is some truth to what I say!

I would like to say more, but have to leave right now... but let's not let his message die!

[saracat]

36. There is much truth in what you say.He was definately told he stood in the way of their, going to be

snarky here, crappy "history" and this was a problem with the PTB.

[For PaisAn]

38. You're 100% correct

It was in his last speech when he suspended his campaign. He said:

"It's time for me to step aside so that history can blaze its path."

Those were not his words. He was pressured to leave the race. I'll never understand why electing a black or a woman is more important than electing the best person for the position. Don't they want to win?! We can't take 4 or 8 more years of Republican rule.

They may have promised him a position but that was an empty promise because I don't believe Clinton or Obama can beat McCain.

On edit:
I just listened to that speech. Those were definitely not John's words, he could barely get them out.

[saracat]

40. Exactly so.

[ChiciB1]

41. The Whole Speech Was "Contrived" For Him To Deliver! John Edwards

speaks freely and easily, and I don't think I've EVER seen him use a script!!

It's really a travesty and unfortunately I think we will SUFFER in the end. I don't care for Clinton at all, but I have some SERIOUS problems with this Obama Mania... THIS is an election for POTUS, NOT a popularity contest. As time goes by I'm becoming more and more ashamed of what I call a GAME these days. I'm told it's a PROCESS, but nothing I'm seeing looks that way!

[flyarm]

45. i have seen John do at least 30 speeches..i have never ever seen him use a script..ever..

and i have now talked to several very close lawyer friends of his ..and they said the same thing..this is a man who didn't hardly ever use notes in a court room!

fly

[ChiciB1]

43. Just Want To Add This Here... So Far He Hasn't Endorsed & I Read

an article that both he and Al Gore aren't "ready" yet! That DOES make me happy!

Also, to those of you who gave me HEARTS, thank you soooooo much!

[travelpet]

46. Just to throw in 2 cents here

If it isn't Elizabeth's health, and I've come to think (and
pray) it isn't, it may be that those for whom John was
fighting the hardest (the poor, disenfranchised, etc.) had
turned their backs to go with the glamour. John was trying to
help people loosing their houses in one part of SC, many if
not most of whom were minorities, and yet when it came time to
vote their interest (John Edwards), they had to support one of
the glamour candidates because of their race or sex or star
appeal. That's hard to fight. Again, people vote against their
own best interests...sounds like a broken record.

PS Whoever gave me the valentine heart, please know I deeply
appreciate the thoughtfulness.

[balantz]

47. I think that many consider from what they have heard

that Obama has pretty much the same agenda as Edwards. Those who look deeper see this isn't true. Those who believe it is true figured they could have both with Obama; the glamour candidate plus the progressive platform. This falsity is perpetuated by the media.

[travelpet]

48. In other words, you're saying

people are either stupid or just giving it a very superficial
look. There is nothing similar about John's platform and what
little I've been able to discern of Obama's, most notably
universal health care and foreclosure relief. If you give it
just a cursory look, Clinton's platform is closer to John's
than Obama's.

Back on Obama, I think it is ironic that he uses the same
argument against universal health coverage that the
segregationists used against school integration in the
1960s...you can't force people to do what they don't want to
do (in Obama's case, insure themselves; in segregationists'
case, go to school with black children). Hmmmm...

[balantz]

49. Not wanting to be judgemental....

but stupid and superficial pretty much sums it up in my mind.

[Ninga]

50. Unless I missed it.....I still do not understand why John did it. I have read lots of

"reasons" and educated guesses about how it happened, and who was behind it......but why did he agree to do it? Why didn't he tell them to fuck off and stay in the race?

Why did he agree to step down?


I am mad at him, and very disappointed.

[travelpet]

51. What's the point of putting your

family through the endless campaigning when so many people
continue to vote against their own interests. You can't make
people do what they should...you can only go into debt. I was
and am disappointed that John cut the race short, but I'm not
mad about it. He doesn't owe us the run...we all owed the
support. Some of us gave it, others wanted to be with the
"in" crowd that the news media was talking about,
maybe we'll be on TV.

[Ninga]

Your point is good, and well taken. However, my concern and questions run deep, and

go to the heart of what is wrong with the party leadership. I fully accept that it wasn't likely that he would win the nomination, but there were many more reasons for him to stay in the campaign, rather than suspend.

But the party leadership intervened and interfered and somehow Edwards suspended his campaign.

And the events since Edwards suspended haven't been very tidy, have they?

The other two have engaged in mutual cat fights.....and the world is watching, scratching their heads watching the Democrats throw the election.

And in the meantime, the people living on the streets, along with the jobless and the working poor, haven't been able to suspend their life challenges, have they?

That's all, really.

[Ninga]

52. n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

56. I'm not mad at him. I am disappointed and I would very much love to know

what or who made him drop out so unexpectedly.

[shimmergal]

53. I feel like I'm living in a nightmare,

watching the Democratic party under a spell, committing suicide, and taking our hopes for our country down too.

It's exactly a month since I took part in the Nevada caucuses, and things have continued to go from bad to worse during that month.

Thank you, flyarm and saracat, for your nearly-insider speculation on what prompted John to suspend his campaign so suddenly. I too hoped he'd stay in there till the convention, gather as many delegates as possible, and try to influence what took place there.

Do you think that whatever entities pressured him to get out, will equally pressure whoever ends up in the lead to NOT offer him the vice-presidential slot on the ticket? If so, what will that say?

But I'm happy to see this Group is staying alive on DU. It may be needed more than ever down the road.

[Ninga]

You feel it, because you are living a nightmare, as we all are. I may be the only

Edwards supporter that did not give him a pass on his decision to suspend.

As I said in another post, unless he had a gun pointing at his head, he did not have to suspend his campaign when he did.

[Ninga]

dupe - sorry

[Ninga]

54. dupe - sorry

[FlyingSquirrel]

55. One of four reasons, or perhaps a combination

(1) A turn for the worse in Elizabeth's condition
(2) Didn't want HRC to win and knew his supporters would gravitate to Obama
(3) Didn't want to damage the party by creating a brokered convention situation
(4) Felt that it was his best chance at being chosen as running mate by eventual winner

It's really still a mystery, but I have a feeling we'll find out soon enough.

[Seabiscuit]

58. Part of me is angry at JRE for quitting so suddenly without telling us why.

That's the part I dislike the most. Not just not knowing. But his leaving us in the dark like this, and not wanting to be angry at him.