my son just finished a camp

[mzteris]

for "gifted and talented" rising sixth graders.

As I sat in the audience watching the final day presentation, I was brought to tears by the paucity of African Americans in the room. There were about 278 campers (I think that was the number the guy said - maybe 287? anyway) - There were MAYBE a dozen AA's in the room. I personally knew four of them, two (including my son) from our charter, one from it's sister trad school, and one from my son's football team. . .

It's a tragedy that AA's aren't getting the recognition and the attention they deserve. You find abnormally large numbers of AA's in remedial or BEH classes, and grossly small numbers in the advanced and gifted classes. SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THIS!

[Fire1]

1. Alot of it has to do with teacher perceptions of poverty and/or

culture resulting in the disproportinate number of AA students being misidentified as having learning disabilities or not being identified as gifted and talented. Most of the fault, however, lies in the assessment. The assessments themselves are skewed and THAT needs to change. Anytime an assessment systematically generates the persistent selection of a specific group as being "disabled," which accounts for about 60% of AA students, the construction of the assessment is seriously flawed.

The UNDERrepresentation of culturally AND lingusiticlly diverse students among those identified as gifted and talented, is a well documented concern. As communities become increasingly diverse the number of gifted and talented students should be reflected in the changing demographics, but this is clearly, not the case.

[Number23]

2. Great post, Fire1

Whenever I read stuff like this, I am so glad that I grew up in a town that celebrated blackness. I was in gifted programs from 2nd grade throughout high school. I started school at age 4 and would have been skipped but the school felt that a 5-year old second grader was too much so I just took classes a grade higher until I was old enough to join the gifted program. They were called the Challenge Program when I was in school.

It makes me sick to my stomach when I read about black kids either going to failing black schools, or going to "integrated" ones and always being the kids filling up the classes for those who are behind developmentally. Sometimes it really seems as though our kids can't win.

Fire1, what are your thoughts on charter schools?? I don't have much knowledge on them but from what I've seen, when they are created in black or poor areas, the kids there seem to shine. I wouldn't dare ask this question on the big forums because 1) I truly don't care what so many of the lunatics here think and b) it seems to be the groupthink on DU that charter schools are EEEEVIIIILLL!!!one! :eyes: As a teacher, what are your thoughts on charter schools??

[mzteris]

3. on charters -

but I don't want this thread to be about that per se (I support them, most people here don't.)

Here is an excerpt from a letter from the charter president about African Americans in my son's charter class (first "graduating class" of this school - they just finished fifth grade)

". . . This is particularly impressive considering that the percentage of our non-English speaking population is the greatest of any school in the district, we have a growing population in poverty (now over 50%) and all of our African American fifth graders scored proficient or advanced for three consecutive years of WKCE testing, a result that no other (**** district) school has yet to achieve. . . "

I will say that our AA numbers are rather small compared to the white and the hispanic population in the upper grades, although I recently found out the AA principal of our sister trad school (shared building) had actively DISCOURAGED AA's from joining our program. What was she thinking???? Being bilingual can only be a huge PLUS, right? I really don't understand, but evidently she thought the "smart" AA kids were going to our charter and she wanted them for "her" school. :(

I don't think Charters are the panacea, I would dearly love all trads take the lead on ensuring quality - cutting-edge - education for minorities, but unfortunately institutionalized racism is so entrenched in some areas that I don't think we can afford to wait any longer for the districts to get their act together. Case in point - have you seen what's happening in Wake County, NC?

FWIW - my son will be going to a trad middle school in the fall.

I WOULD love a discussion of education - period - of AA. Let's forget charter or traditional and just talk schools - what's wrong, what works, what needs to be done.

[Number23]

6. "have you seen what's happening in Wake County, NC"?

No. What's going on??

Minority teachers and teachers at inner city schools seem to have a different perspective on charter schools than do the teachers here on DU. Which is why I check and verify just about everything I see on this web site nowadays. If I thought the conversations here could be honest for a change, I'd be happy to participate. But instead, all we see is alot of thrashing and screaming so I just stay clear.

Here's a great web site that I came across a few days ago - http://www.teachersofcolor.com/2010/03/teachers-of-color-magazine-spring-2010-issue/

[mzteris]

8. they're getting rid of the diversity policy

Wake schools diversity issue takes center stage again
and going to "neighborhood schools" - and in the South - that pretty much means segregation. four new school board members were elected this past term and promptly sought to undo one of the most progressive diversity policies in the country.



Raleigh, N.C. — The line is drawn over the student assignment debate in the Wake County Public School System, and both sides are expected to meet Tuesday in what's been advertised as a move to stop segregation and promote diversity.

On one side, there's a number of people, including civil rights, church and civic leaders, who believe the school board's move away from a decade-long policy of busing students will segregate schools and create pockets of poverty.

Changing the policy, they believe, will result in basically two school systems – one for the haves and one for the have-nots. That, they say, would violate every student's constitutional right to an equal education.

On the other side of the line, there is a number of people who support the board's controversial decision to move to a community-based assignment model, where students would be place in schools closer to where they live.

Advocates for the policy say it not only gives parents more choices for where their children go to school but that it also will allow more parents to be involved in their education.

The school board majority says the system now in place doesn't work when it comes to student achievement, and that the change is needed.

Members have insisted that they won't let schools be resegregated.

http://www.wral.com/news/education/story/7991486/




Hundreds rally against Wake schools plan

RALEIGH -- Hundreds of marchers from the state NAACP, local churches, student groups and civil rights organizations took to downtown Raleigh streets this morning, rallying at the State Capitol to protest the dismantling of a Wake school diversity policy they believe will lead to de facto resegregation.

. . .Members of the school board majority reject the assertion that their decision to ditch the diversity policy in favor of neighborhood schools will result in resegregation.

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/07/20/589712/hundreds-rally-against-wake-schools.html#ixzz0uGmTQnV3



16 protesters arrested at school board meeting

. . . Inside the building, the school board started its monthly meeting with Margiotta's pledge not to create schools full of poor or minority children. They faced a packed house of both supporters and opponents.

Chairman Ron Margiotta just gave an opening statement maintaining that that the board would not be distracted by its detractors, presumably including this morning's downtown protesters and the pastors and others arrested minutes ago when trying to attend the meeting, from which they had been barred.

Margiotta heads a coalition determined to end the Wake schools' longstanding emphasis on maintaining balanced schools based on students economic background.

"This board does not intend to create high-poverty or low-performing schools in the new zone assignments.

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/07/20/590187/protesters-disrupt-school-board.html#ixzz0uGnYLxKB

*********


My thing is - it's all about the kids. I support whatever the hell WORKS! I honestly believe that most of the teachers on DU don't have a clue when it comes to what's going on IN charter schools - nor do they fully comprehend the plight of minorities in school systems around the country. I don't think they're racist, but I think - as most of them are white, they really do not - can not - "get" what it's like to BE a minority.

I have to insert here in the interest of full disclosure that i am white; my son is adopted and is African American. I have a much different understanding of "minority" issues now than I had before I had my son. I thought I was "enlightened" before, but I was still woefully ignorant. It has made a huge difference, yet I know that still I can never FULLY appreciate what it's like to be that minority myself. (although, spending time in another country sure helps!)

Thanks for the link - I'll take a look. I think we must recruit more AA teachers - and more male teachers - if we are to make any headway. Always having a "white person" as the one who is instructing you, I think, helps set up those little voices in your head about "place", you know? Diversity among teachers is still grossly behind. Having a black female in a position of authority, having black male role models IN the classroom emphasizing the importance of an education - teachers who don't have that "bias" - whether unconscious and unrealized, or sadly in many parts of the country - overt and proud of it.

One of the reasons I chose a charter school was because it was a spanish immersion program. As such, they seek for white/black/hispanic diversity in the classroom and also native spanish speaking teachers. Cultural diversity is taught and respected.

[Fire1]

7. Thanks Number 23. I don't care for charter schools because

typically they don't have to adhere to the same policies and regulations that apply to traditional public schools in exchange for accountability. Many of them here even have their own curriculum which is something that is supposed to be mandated by the state. Yet, they still receive public money and private donations and most of all, they don't recognize unions. The rules and structure of charter schools vary from state to state but none of them recognize unions and the salary is insulting.

[mzteris]

9. actually, there are a number of unionized charter schools.

In fact, the Teachers Union opened and operates some charter schools. Salaries vary from state to state and from what I gather, some do pay quite well. That said, some don't, but being free of the endless and mindless red-tape and having the freedom to be innovative and actually TEACH in the classroom makes all the difference.


Charter schools must meet the same "education accountability" requirements as the traditional schools. The freedom from the policies and regulations are the ones that most teachers scream about the most. Not being able to implement change quickly and effectively. Having to jump through your butt and go to endless meetings just to be able do something a little different in your classroom.

some states have abysmal laws, but they are few and getting fewer. Most charters in this country are under 10 years old, around half under 6 years old. There are still a lot of growing pains and finding out what works and what doesn't. that's one of the beauties of the schools is the freedom to be innovative. Well - sometimes that innovation doesn't work, for whatever reason - but not having the opportunity to TRY something "different" is one of the things stifling traditional public education.

Most charters (I'd say all, but I'm not positive is all states require, I think so, though) still have to take - and pass - the very same exams that their counterparts in the trad school does. They have to meet AYP, etc... just like everyone else. The only difference, really - is on how to get there.

[Fire1]

12. As I stated, the policies and requirements vary among states.

I suspect it's for this reason that some five thousand charters have closed in the last decade. The premise of charters is widely known and even applauded. Unfortunately, all charters are not created equal in terms of standards, recognizing unions, salaries nor curriculum.

[mzteris]

13. Here's a good resource for statistics

http://www.publiccharters.org/dashboard/

That closed number seems very high - but it could be accurate. Again, a plus in my book - if a school fails, close it or change it. Also there is occasion when "closed charters" wasn't necessarily closed but the charter changed significantly so it appeared to have "closed" and a new one "opened" but the school is the same.

Tightening up and improving regulations across the board is a goal of the the National Association of Public Charter Schools.

A New Model Law for Supporting the Growth of High-Quality Public Charter Schools
June 22, 2009

It has been 18 years since Minnesota passed the nation’s first public charter school law, and public charter schools have become a prominent feature of public education serving more than 1.5 million students in over 4,900 schools in 40 states and the District of Columbia.

With the number of public charter schools and students steadily growing – and the body of evidence documenting their success mounting – legislative battles over charter laws are intensifying. As charter supporters fight these battles, the time is right for a new model law that supports more and better public charter schools based upon lessons learned from experience, research, and analysis.

Our intent in developing this new law was to create a resource useful for guiding the 41 jurisdictions with charter laws as well as the 10 states that have yet to enact a charter law.

http://www.publiccharters.org/files/publications/ModelLaw_P7-wCVR.pdf

Here's how the states rank in meeting the "model law" criteria: http://www.publiccharters.org/files/publications/DB-ModelLaw_Report_01-12-10.pdf



I do understand the reservations and concerns - these are some of the same ones that exist in traditional schools across the country. I also understand that people fear "charters will take over" and trads will go away. I have no fear of that whatsoever. Charters are only 5.1% of all public schools! FIVE PERCENT! Only 3.4% of all students are charter.


I don't like the 10% (~500 schools) that are managed by for profit organizations. I'm a little leary of the other 10% managed by non-profit organizations. I prefer the local variety. I also don't want to see a "wholesale" movement to charters because I think that would defeat the purpose. Charters should be "A" choice for some kids. It is not "the" answer for all kids, but another tool in the box for getting the job done.



Here's a really good blurb on what charters should be (an I think "most" are) from the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction:

"Charter School \chär-tEr skül\ n : A public school that: (1) in accordance
with an enabling state statute is exempt from significant state or local rules; (NOTE: this does NOT mean they're exempt from the same education performance standards! **)
(2) is created by a developer as a public school; (3) provides a program of
elementary or secondary education, or both; (4) is nonsectarian in its programs,
admission policies, employment practices, and all other operations,
and is not affiliated with a sectarian school or religious institution; (5) does
not charge tuition; (6) complies with federal law; (7) admits students on the
basis of a lottery if more students apply for admission than can be accommodated;
(8) agrees to comply with the same federal and state audit requirements
as other elementary and secondary schools in the state; (9) meets
all applicable federal, state and local health and safety requirements; and
(10) operates in accordance with state law.


Charter schools are public, nonsectarian schools created through a contract
or “charter” between the operators and the sponsoring school board or
other chartering authority. The Wisconsin charter school law gives charter
schools freedom from most state rules and regulations in exchange for
greater accountability for results. The charter defines the missions and
methods of the charter school; the chartering authority holds the school
accountable to its charter.

Charter schools are created with the best elements of regular public
schools in mind. Wisconsin established charter schools to foster an environment
of creativity. Charter schools are, in essence, living laboratories that
influence the larger public school system and introduce an element of entrepreneurship
within that system. Charter school leaders may experiment
with different instructional theories, site-based management techniques,
and other innovations. They learn, sometimes by trial and error, what works
best for their student population. Regular schools can observe and learn
from what happens in the charter school and make similar improvements
without having to experience “growing pains.” Through this process, the
entire public school system is continually challenged to improve itself.

A charter school is developed to fit the special needs and interests of its
community, parents, and students. This is what makes each charter school
unique. While many goals for educating and preparing children are similar,
each charter school fulfills a specific local need in education. Charter schools
offer a choice to parents and students in the area of curriculum, teaching
methodology, and classroom structure. Many who serve at-risk populations work hard
to keep their small population of students from falling through
the cracks, offering counseling and personal attention and support. In districts
with charter schools, the community, school boards, and parents have
identified their public education needs and established charters that meet
them.

Again, charter schools are public schools. They are freed from most state
rules and regulations in exchange for greater accountability for results. http://dpi.wi.gov/sms/pdf/2006-07yearbook.pdf


**http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0118.pdf

[mzteris]

14. also - really i have no desire to get into a whole charter thing

in here - I just want to discuss the state of education for AA children and what we can do about it!!

So can we just say "school" - and not charter or trad or anything? Can we just look at methodologies and strategies and classes, etc??

I honestly am not looking for anything other than some . . . THING . . . parents can do to ensure that OUR CHILDREN are getting an equal and quality education.

[mzteris]

4. I remember reading some years back

(I forget the book) - that AA children weren't typically "sorted out" until around 3rd grade. Prior to that, they were treated "the same" as the white children, but that teacher interactions - for whatever reason - began to change.

Have you heard anything about this phenomena?

[Fire1]

11. I'd love to read that book and yes, I've heard of the

phenomena b/c it's most prevalent today. The interactions didn't change as much as perceptions. Teachers need to examine themselves and their prejudices. Too, gifted and talented programs don't exist in alot of districts across the nation and are not legally required to have federal funding.

[AspenRose]

5. I am homeschooling my kids.

Can you PM me the info about the camp? I'd like to learn more about it.

[mzteris]

10. check out the DU homeschooling group on DU.

This particular camp is limited to "public schoolers" unfortunately. I will PM though.


(I hs'ed for several years, too!)