An idea to start combatting these threads?

[mark414]

Many of us, in the course of replying to so many of these ill-fated threads over the past couple of weeks (and longer) have made very good points, analogies, examples, etc.

But the problem is they're so scattered and often times the conversation is only between 2 or 3 individuals.

So what would you all think about taking our ideas, combining them and submitting them as an article for the front page?

We can use this thread to craft the general ideas we want to get across, to combine and strengthen our message, and also vigorously lobby the admins if they don't want to post it (for being too controversial or whatever reason?).

So let's get started! Who's on board?

[kwassa]

1. I suggest a two-prong approach

First, development of such an article. I don't believe the article alone will stop this phenomenon, however.

Secondly, what has organically developed already, which is notification in this forum that such a thread is going on. This allows all to respond to such a thread that we might easily miss in real time (unless we spend all our lives sitting on this board, of course. I personally am too busy.)

DU is huge, and made up of a vast array of individuals, most of whom have their heads and hearts in the right place, but with a small number who do not, of whites who have not examined the sources of their own regressive, in my opinion, racial attitudes. The surprising part to me is to run into this on such a leftist site, hearing words that really stem from the conservative world. I am relatively new, but what I've seen so far is a libertarian streak that certain posters have that allows them to deny responsibility for almost anything, if they choose to.

I think continued pressure from all of us is the key to success, but it is important to keep responding, and notifying each other here that such a thread is happening.

[wildeyed]

2. Something that might help.

Use Demopedia to compile facts and information. That way, when someone needs to respond to a negative post, we can search Demopedia for the facts and statistics instead of doing an exhaustive internet search. Or refer people directly to the Demopedia entry.

I know these threads are upsetting, but for me, a somewhat naive white person, they have been an education, too. First, to know what is really going on in the heads of my "progressive" brethren and second, for me to learn and then to really examine my own conscience.

edit: bad spelling

[Karenina]

3. And another one bites the dust, WOOO!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x2667917

No comment.

I bounced the screed that prompted it and wonder how many posts will be added and/or if it, too, will be locked. Things that make ya go hmmm...

[mandyky]

4. Can you give examples of threads

we need to combat? Here or elsewhere in DU?

[mark414]

5. in this forum there are mentions of them

usually they have the word "thread" in the subject...take a look around, they're not hard to find...

here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=258&topic_id=1231&mesg_id=1231

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=258x1214

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=258x1197

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=258x1148

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=258&topic_id=1004&mesg_id=1004

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=258x986

and so on, and so on, and so on...

[HamdenRice]

6. A couple of thoughts ...

I think it is a good idea to posit an alternative to the very narrow, racially conservative viewpoint that predominates on DU and that the administrators support by censoring alternative views.

I suspect that an article would be seen by fewer people than a post in GD or the Lounge that gets a big response.

But the most important point you are making is that we should be pro-active in defining the issue rather than merely reacting to and criticizing the lame predominant view.

Also I believe that we need a series of threads that pose an articulate, well-reasoned perspective that challenges the predominant view, rather than a single thread.

Perhaps someone could post an original post thread starter here, we could all constructively criticize it to polish it, and then the OP could post it to GD at a time convenient for all of us. We could then comment/kick it to keep in in play.

Does that sound plausible?

[Karenina]

7. I dunno.

This is a predominately white American board. Minority opinions are NOT really welcome here unless they support and conform to the dominant view. I jes' dunno.
:shrug: :think: :freak: :freak: :freak: :think: :shrug:

[mark414]

8. alright let's get some ideas rolling

what are the main points that need to be emphasized?

obviously the institutional racism that has continued since slavery AND since all the civil rights legislation

i like jesse jackson's analogy of the running race

also highlight statistics on disparities in income, incarceration, etc. and use these and other inequalities as examples that, despite what we all want, things are not equal in this country

bring up that point that people spend so much time worrying about (as hamden pointed out in another thread) a little black girl calling a little white boy a cracker (or some other example) while ignoring the real problems

also is there anyone who would like to volunteer to write this? and then as hamden mentioned on the post above, post it here and we will all offer critiques, do some editing and fine tuning, etc...

let's keep it up!

[kwassa]

10. Approaches that I think are important

Having been a clueless white boy who received and continues to receive an education in this area:

What do you think of some of these ideas?

(I think the basic theme, as I see it, is that most white people here simply need an education in the history and current situation of black Americans.)

stream of consciousness, no particular order or emphasis.

1) Start out positive. Emphasize the clear sympathy that most liberal whites have for the ending of racism in this country.

2) Point of the lack of specific knowledge of blacks and black culture that most whites, including liberal whites, have. This would include how most images of blacks in the minds of whites are formed from distorted media images, usually of relatively poor and uneducated blacks.

3) Point out the type of comments in DU that are irritating or insensitive from the point of view of black people.

4) Quote specific studies of current racial disparities in income, education, housing, etc., and show them as part of a historical continuum that is the legacy of racism, on an ongoing basis.

5) Elevate new stories about racism to LBN, or GD, on a regular basis, as they are spotted in the media.

6) You might think this controversial. Avoid the "R" word, racism, as much as possible, as it terrifies most whites and will kill a real conversation about race faster than anything else. It will also get the thread locked by the mods, I think. I don't believe in bending over backwards to assuage tender white sensibilities, but I think that this is a reality.

[kk897]

11. one thing that really affected me...

was reading the accounts of those here describing their day to day life and the kind of things that happen which would most likely not happen to paler people. Even the "little" things, like some stranger commenting about a person's hair, just floored me. The only kind of similar intrusion and rudeness I've ever had to "endure" came when I was clinically depressed, and as I'd walk around campus every once in a while someone would call out, "hey, it's not that bad, is it?" or "smile!" Annoying, sure, but not indicative of a social ill.

The threads brought home to me that this stuff continues to this day. It's a bit like that excellent "unpacking" essay someone recommended, but the DUer comments make it personal, not theoretical. Perhaps taking one of those threads to GD might be good, like the "stupid question" thread. It can aptly demonstrate how insidious racism is, how ingrained in the culture it is, without saying, HEY YOU! YES YOU! You do this kind of thing, too! Maybe the some folks would get the hint.

[mandyky]

9. I started a nice in honor of black history month in GD

Stuff like this brings out the idiotic posters, I guess.

[DrWeird]

12. Relax.

The Doctor is in.

[HamdenRice]

13. My first draft -- for your suggestions, editions, deletions, etc

I have taken up your challenge and posted a first draft. I put it in a new thread, here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=258x1395