Was slavery beneficial to blacks ?

[USAcitizen]

I just finished reading some posts on slavery reparations on another site.
Again as always, there is one or more posters who make statements about how slavery was more beneficial to blacks than detrimental. I am curious about the views of posters here on this subject.

[fortyfeetunder]

1. I haven't seen a benefit...

First, welcome to DU :hi:

Back to your question: When we talk of benefit, economic, social, and legal is what I think of because that is how most Murkans define their status in the USA.

Economically, I didn't see a benny because for one, slaves had little to no income. There were exceptions by a few benevolent slaveowners. Maybe they had plantation facilities, but it was low quality.

Socially: the family was at risk for fragmentation by slave auctions and sales, and abuse by slaveowners. Many slaves weren't allowed achieve an education, and slaveowners provided minimal efforts for self-expression.

Legally: There were no rights, to vote, and in some cases, to own land or even claim children or spouses.

Institutionalized slavery, IMHO, rarely benefited the slaves.

[USAcitizen]

3. Thanks for the welcome

I absolutely agree with you. African Americans are still suffering today because of slavery. Some would say that we (African Americans) are better off here than over in Africa starving to death as many in Africa are, but I say that is B.S. No fate is worst than slavery. Who's to say where we would be now if it where not for the "Middle Passage". One thing is for sure, our ancestors were better off in Africa than they were here in America.

[HamdenRice]

2. Are you kidding? Is this flame bait?

It's hard to imagine that you could even be asking this question in good faith, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

No there were absolutely no benefits whatsoever to African, African American or Afro-Caribbean people from slavery. Slavery and the slave trade and slave raiding instigated countless wars in Africa, which devasted the continent, first in West Africa, then moving down the west coast as the continent was literally depopulated, skipped around the Cape to Mozambique and devasted up the east coast until Brazil finally enacted abolition, the last country in the Americas to abolish the African slave trade.

The British historian of Africa, Philip Curtin, made the most exhaustive census of the likely number of deaths, and estimated that 20 to 30 million perished, and that the mortality rate of African people between leaving Africa and arriving in the Americas was about 50 percent overall, although many individual slave ships experienced horrifically higher rates.

In the Americas, the life expectancy of a slave was but a few years, and conditions were so harsh and slavery so profitable that no slave region of the Americas had a self-sustaining slave population except for a few counties of the border states of Virginia, Maryland, and Tennessee (because they had become agricultural backwaters), which in turn became slave breeding and exporting areas after the US ended the slave importation, in conformance with the Constitution, in the early 1800s. In places like Cuba and San Domingue (now Haiti), the life expectancy of a slave after arriving was about 5 years.

The legacy of slavery at emancipation was an ill-fed, malnourished, illiterate population with few rights or economic assets. Slavery also poisoned politics of the United States (and several other New World countries) for the next hundred years, stunted the economic growth of the south and other slave producing areas, and left a legacy of racial inequality and discrimination.

So since you posted this, what are the alleged, supposed benefits of slavery to the African diaspora. Please elaborate, because no doubt, with a moment's reflection you will find that any such alleged benefits are distortions, myths or outright lies.

But I'm game, bring em on.

[USAcitizen]

4. This is no flame bait

I have heard that argument on many occasions. Surprised you have not. I just wanted others point of view on the matter. If I wanted to flame, then I would not have posted here on the African-American Issues Group. I can bet you that many white liberals on this board would think that there was a benefit. I have found through posting on many sites that there is one thing that both white liberals and white conservatives have in common. That is their views on slavery and affirmative action.

[HamdenRice]

5. I simply cannot imagine what benefit ...

anyone could believe there was to slavery. You mentioned you have heard there were -- what could they possibly be?

[USAcitizen]

6. NO

It is just some people's opinion. Not mine.

[fortyfeetunder]

8. I know what you are talking about

there were some discussions on General Discussion (GD) debating slavery.

GD can be a volatile place...:nuke:

[wildeyed]

11. Um, I am a white liberal.

And I would hardly consider my views on affirmative action and slavery to be the same as your average white conservative. But I am surprised at how prevalent the RW talking points on these issues have become, even here at DU. And I am at a loss as to what to do about it, other than to become better educated myself, to work in my community for fairness and to correct untruth when I run across it.

[Kraklen]

14. I'm a white liberal.

No liberal says that slavery was beneficial.

[Robeson]

15. As a white liberal, I know of no white liberal who would think slavery..

...was beneficial. As for those who would say it was beneficial on this site, my feeling is, they are confused about their party affiliation, are moles, or are out-and-out freepers, irregardless of what their post count might be.

[wildeyed]

16. I think a lot of people are confused.

A friend's husband actually made this argument to me a few months ago. He is not a dem, but he does hate Bush. He doesn't post here, but I am sure there are many like him who do.

On the plus side, this guy's wife and I argued that slavery had not been, in fact, beneficial to African-Americans. And that many of the problems that Africa suffers are related to colonialism. He seemed to capitulate to our point of view, so hopefully he won't say something like that again.

I wish I had been posting here before I had that argument. There are better debate points in this forum than I had been able to come up with on my own. Oh well, I am sure the topic will come up again. *sigh*

[jmm]

7. I've heard that argument made before

Sure there are racists who love revising history and claiming slaves were treated like part of the family and life for them and their descendants is better off here than it would've been back in Africa but I doubt anybody who would make ludicrous claims like that would trade places with a slave.

[Brewman_Jax]

9. To answer...

NO!

A question for the freepers...if slavery was so great, why don't they want to be slaves?

[wildeyed]

10. Good point.

:rofl:

I will remember that one for the future.

[ecstatic]

12. No, slavery was beneficial to America

Where would America be without 400 years of free labor? Certainly not the super power of the world. And where would Africa be now without 400 years of the strongest people being stolen away? Nobody knows. I hate to hear that argument, and yes I've heard it a lot. Even some blacks have had the nerve to argue that idea.

[Kraklen]

13. About as beneficial as the holocaust was to Jews.

Hey, if there wasn't a holocaust there'd be no Israel.

And if there wasn't Israel all those Jews would have been back in Germany and they would have had to worry about the nazis.

What a question.

[Swamp Rat]

19. Good analogy

[HamdenRice]

17. There used to be a Christian Fundamentalist angle ...

which is that white people brought Africans out of heathen darkness and into Christianity. So no matter how horrible life for slaves was, at least they would go to heaven when they died, whereas Africans would perish for eternity.

That's about as logical as the modern pro slavery argument.

[FrenchieCat]

18. No advantage in the slightest......

and the roadblocks continue today...even as some sing KumBaYa.

[Swamp Rat]

20. Ignorant racists.

[bobbieinok]

21. I had a few black pentecostal students tell me their black ministers were

preaching to their black congregations that slavery was god's punishment for Africans' paganism.....I got the impression this was a fairly recent development

I found this incredible.....but highly useful to white pentecostals who often seem to believe there is no racism at all in the modern US and anyone who says there is is a 'is a (demon) democrat keeping blacks on the plantation' or however that meme goes

(from white 60+ woman)

[TroubleMan]

22. Next time somebody asks that question, tell them to be your slave.

Take their name, religion, culture, and home away. Take away their rights, dignity, and all but the most basic needs. Force them to mate to some other person who asked you the same question, and then sell the baby to be somebody else's slave.

Beat them ruthlessly for the slightest thing, and make them work in horrible conditions all day.

When you're forced by the authorities to release your new slave (against all your efforts to keep them), then treat them as second class citizens. Shut them out of all good business and political opportunities. Take away their right to compete with you on an equal basis, take their right to vote, and segregate them into the shittiest areas and houses possible. Also, segregate their kids into the shittiest schools. Create a justice system that's stacked against them, and lynch any of them that get "too uppity."

See if they benefit from it.

Tell them: "Hell, it benefited black people - it should benefit you, too!"