Speaking of hip hop...

[Number23]

I have enjoyed the chats we've been having here about how horrible hip hop has become. But you know what else hip hop has become besides bad?? COMMERCIAL.

Remember when white folks were literally driving over rap tapes with bulldozers? Calling for Congressional intervention to stop rap and locking up rappers like 2 Live Crew (how I hated them) for being "indecent?" Remember when Tipper Gore declared war on hip hop because it was just too violent, too political and just too MUCH for them to take??

What the Hell Happened??

How in the world did we go from this:



To this:



To this:



To THIS foolishness and idiocy



And just when you thought it could not POSSIBLY get any worse, they have hip hop KIDS' shows!!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x33yb9_yo-gabba-gabba-theres-a-party-in-my_fun
Here is the host of the show, called, *ahem* Yo Gabba Gabba!

Yes, hip hop is finally dead my friends! It took 40 years but it's there. When a fool in an orange one piece who dances like your drunken Aunt Sally is hosting a hip hop show for KIDS, it is well and truly over. Hopefully, old white people will finally stop being afraid of hip hop now.

[Blue_Tires]

1. commercialization and marketability took over

and the socio-political commentary got lost...

[Raineyb]

2. Socio-political commentary doesn't sell in the suburbs.

Plus, promoting useful idiots who do nothing but talk about tits and asses makes it easier to marginalize the few who do actual socio-political commentary.

[Blue_Tires]

3. and WAY too much emphasis on material wealth

i can understand a little here and there on a track, but it's all i hear...folks got to realize there is more to it than that...

rap music was once the conscious of the black community...it needs to be again...

[Number23]

4. This might make some people mad at me, but I blame Biggie and Puffy for that mess

Hip hop was still moderately political when Bad Boy sprung its foolishness on the world.

Biggie Smalls, a man so physically hideous that I'm sure even his children probably screamed the first time they saw him, decided that he needed to prove something to all of the people (especially women) who'd called him "black and ugly" so he spent the entire span of his career talking about how rich he was, how many women he had, what clothes he wore etc. and parading his (far too cute for him) wife Faith Evans around and still hooking up with (again, far too cute for him) women like Li'l Kim and Charlie Baltimore.

Next thing you know, EVERYBODY is doing this foolishness. All EVERYBODY wants to talk about now is what kind of damn car they drive and how many women they're banging. Rump Shaker was the video that started the perpetual T&A in rap videos, but I blame Bad Boy for cooking up all of this mindless and idiotic materialism. AND I ALWAYS WILL. :mad:

[bliss_eternal]

9. Will I am Speaks on Hip Hop Materialism

Will I am Speaks on Hip Hop Materialism

Quote:

I was talking to Rakim about that – I was like ‘yo, you said yourself: I cold show my rings and my fat gold chains, rock the mic like I’m on Soul Train. You was boastin’ and braggin’ about gold. What’s the difference between that line and any Cash Money song?’

“Hip Hop has always been about that. Hip Hop was never supposed to stay in the South Bronx – it’s whole purpose was to be the biggest form of music in the world and do the things that people we’re doing. Run DMC would never have made a song called “My Adidas” – muthafuckas didn’t get a dime for it. They were selling Adidas and Adidas didn’t even have to do a marketing campaign – they didn’t have the little marketing meeting – ‘let’s get these Black guys to sell our shoes with laces that to fit the shoe and have all these urban kids buy our gear’.

-------------snip-------------

excerpted from:

http://www.daveyd.com/williaminterview.html

[Number23]

11. Okay, bliss

You know the Black Eyed Peas make me :puke: right?? That must be some West Coast stuff because I don't know ANYONE who listens to the BEP.

Having said that, there is no doubt in my mind that Will I Am is very talented. Here is a video he did for Cartoon Network. (Yes, it is obvious that I have a small child) :) http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4zc11_will-i-am-secrets_music

He seems to be a genuine artist with real talent and his comments about hip hop materialism are spot on, but I can't help but think that he totally played into that his damned self when his group brought Fergie into the mix. I can't wait for him to branch out on his own and leave the BEP behind. That Fergie girl... blecch. Although Glamorous was a really great song.

[Number23]

5. More proof of the vanilla-ization and bastardization of hip hop

I think I'm the only person in AAIG that has a little kid, so I'm sure that most of you have missed the mind-blowing monstrosity that is:

Choo Choo Soul :scared: :scared:

Comes on Playhouse Disney. Clip here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPlkiN2e6bg

Like I said in the OP, with hip hop being targeted at little kids, BABIES even, how can anyone still act as though this art form is still so "dangerous?"

[jmm]

6. My favorite rap video-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nECe0s04ESE

When the chief aim of the industry became making money it stopped being driven by talent. I swear even the dance element on hip hop has gotten worse over the years. I may not have been around during the heyday of breaking but I know it took more talent then grinding on someone, or that stupid lean back dance from about five years ago, or the look at me revving up a motorcycle dance, etc.

[Number23]

7. ahhhhhh... (high fives jmm)

I see your excellent Roots video and raise you one Common - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y12YgEIFcAY

and one exquisite Ms. Baduh - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b7kWf6nXkc :)

Two more classics pining for the hip hop of old.

[jmm]

8. Common and Erykah Badu did some great songs together and about each other

I saw him at Rock the Bells and he put on a great show. They really messed with the set times for the two stages this year and I thought I'd have to decide between him and Slum Village. Luckily somebody I didn't want to see didn't perform which changes the line up and I got to see them both.

More proof you don't need a big budget, fake jewels, rented cars, and bikini clad women to make a good video-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-iiB4yEMEo

When Common, Mary J Blige, The Neptunes, and J Dilla are all involved with the same song you can't go wrong-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLQf5Up-res&feature=channel

[Number23]

10. Good stuff.

I will raise your exquisite Common/Erykah duo by ANOTHER exquisite duo... the incomparable Black Starr. :)

Talib Kweli - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77zxCAfVeD8 (I love this song so much, I actually CRY when I hear it sometimes)

Mos Def - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxKS7t70cUA

I have to say, as much as I like Common as a person, his music has never MOVED me the way that it could. Even some of the raunchy stuff out there is more palatable to me. I think that's one of the reasons he was never as successful as he could have been. But he is one FINE looking man, yessir!! And he really seems like a good, decent bloke too.

[jmm]

12. I was listening to Mos Def a little while ago.

We Are Hip Hop to be specific. It was never officially released in the US but my brother got it for me. I've got some cool family :D.

This topic had me thinking of when Jay Z said on The Black Album

"If skills sold, truth be told.
I'd probably be, lyrically, Talib Kweli."

About a year later Talib released The Beautiful Struggle and said

"If lyrics sold then truth be told.
I'd probably be just as rich and famous as Jay-Z."

I read this article years ago about Sarah Jones and this poem of hers. I was pretty impressed to find out that Jay Z had approached her and said he was a fan. I'm not the biggest fan of his but I've got to respect him for acknowledging them and some of the problems with the industry.

Of course I can't bring myself to have any respect for Lil Wayne even after hearing that he admitted he's not making good music, he's making commercial music but it's been years since I've heard a song of his that didn't make me want to backhand him.

[Number23]

13. lol I love those quotes from Jay and Talib

I'm sure that Talib would love to trade places with Jay sometimes. But then he stops to think about the consequences of doing so on his mortal soul. :)

Jay doesn't bother me nearly as much as some of the more mainstream artists. I actually really like his personality and sense of humor that comes through in his tracks. He talks alot of isht but you kind of get the impression that he KNOWS you aren't taking him seriously because he's not really taking himself seriously.

To my dying day, I will never understand the phenom that was Biggie. For every sick rhyme he had, there were ten of him just bragging about who he was wearing and what he was driving. And Puffy was the worst thing that ever happened to hip hop, at least on the tracks. I know he was a hell of a producer, but his stiff no-flow was painful to listen to.

Buuuutt, having said all of that... :)... this track will still go down as one of my favorites ever and it features Biggie AND that damn Puffy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vpq1go-3LU

[bliss_eternal]

14. hey jmm--Vh1 classic is airing a Rock-doc

about N.W.A this month. :hi: (thought you might be interested).

It's surreal to watch from the perspective of having lived in close proximity to much of what they rapped about. A great portion of their work seems (in retrospect) less an attempt at "consciousness," and more rage at the oppressive conditions created in the inner city, by the LAPD under Darryl Gates. :scared:

Watching the documentary got me thinking about your comments about Lil Wayne (as well as "materialism" and how it seems to be the sole focuse of today's rap and hip/hop).

My understanding of rap/hip hop is that it is the opposite of the blues. The genre of the blues, being a celebration of the indignaties of being black in America--the injustice, sadness, sorrow, poverty, pain, etc. While rap/hip hop attempts to celebrate the opposite of the blues, success. But given that most urban males (and females), in early rap came from poverty, their success was represented through bravada, posturing and bragging--frequently about "things" no one had. ;)

What does success look like to one from poverty?
Typically nice cars, big homes, lots of money, champagne, beautiful women, luxury, designer clothes, etc. Yes, uber-materialistic with some hedonism and misogyny thrown in for balance. :P

When rap and hip hop became "commercially viable" it seemed that overnight we were drowning in groups celebrating the shallow. But I don't think the lyrics changed drastically. What changed in my opinion, is that companies put money behind rap. So rap/hip-hop suddenly had the ability to create videos to market their music. Thanks to Hype Williams pioneering efforts (and Puffy's ability to pay for them--after creating his own company) we suddenly had opulent, stylized visuals to match the lyrics. This seemed to give rap a higher profile (particularly on music television) and thus makes many believe they are responsible for the downfall of "rap."

I don't blame Lil' Wayne (and similar artists that precede him). I blame the patriarchy dominated corporate music industry. They benefit from the structure, and demand that the artists create this crap (to make $$$$$$). Many of the artists seem to see it as their way "out of the ghetto."

I see artists like this, as a symptom of a much bigger problem--victims complicit in their own destruction. Much the way I view women that enter the sex industry for survival.

just some thoughts, by bliss :hi:

[jmm]

15. I definitely don't think we can let the industry off the hook.

DMX once said something to the effect of he's not an industry artist, he's an artist in an industry. Thanks to the few corporations such as Clear Channel, MTV, and the major distribution labels which dominate music the lines between the two can become blurred and it's easy to get caught up with what you're told the radio wants to hear. The earliest rap hits were party music. It didn't start off as militant/political/social commentary and I don't expect it to always have a deep message. To a certain extent I hold the Lil Waynes of the world to a higher standard because they've experienced some self actualization and have had enough success to do something about it but don't. The Soulja Boys out there just want to make party music so I may not like what they do but at least they're doing what they want to do. Also I get disappointed when groups and artists start off railing against the industry and after they gain some success they start contradicting their earlier work. The problems with rap today are symptomatic of the issues with music, business, and even society in general and we won't see music improve without focusing on the larger issues affecting it.

[bliss_eternal]

16. great point...

quote:
To a certain extent I hold the Lil Waynes of the world to a higher standard because they've experienced some self actualization and have had enough success to do something about it but don't.

he and others like him, should be held to a higher standard.
i heard a philanthropic celebrity once say that having the means to make a difference yet doing nothing, is nothing short of vulgarity personified. as far as rap artists are concerned, the beastie boys certainly didn't start out as pro-woman, but look at them now.

i appreciate your comments on this, as you clearly know (and are familiar with) many of the current artists and their work.:thumbsup::hi:

[HopeOverFear]

17. HEY HEY HEY!!!! Leave OutKast OUT OF IT!!! LOL

there's nothing wrong with them LOL

[Number23]

18. Outkast is one of the examples of GOOD (or better) hip hop

I'm from Atlanta, remember?? I've known about and loved Outkast forever. :)

[HopeOverFear]

19. Oh whew lol