NYT article on Black Hair (mentions "Good Hair" movie)

[AspenRose]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/27/fashion/27SKIN.html?_r=2

Our "friends" at Free Republic are mentioned in the article because of their comments about Malia Obama's hair.

Don't read the comments at the website if you don't want high blood pressure. Some of them are on point but others.... :banghead:

[Number23]

1. Damn. Sistas' hair is getting more press than the damn moon landing!

What the hell...?? Between this and Time actually doing an article on black hair this is getting ridiculous! :)

Time article here - Why Michelle's Hair Matters

Now, I'm about to show my utter ignorance but this sentence made me almost drop my ice cream sandwich:

The movie, made by Chris Rock, explores the lengths black women go to get long, straightened locks, from a $1,000 weave on a teacher’s salary to schoolgirls having their hair chemically relaxed.

Okay..... I know that black women will spend anything and move Heaven and earth for their hair. But PLEASE don't tell me a damn weave can actually cost somebody ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS!!!! ((faints dead))

[firedupdem]

2. I guess I need to get some info on what this movie is supposed

to be about. Maybe I'm just grumpy but what is the point?

[bliss_eternal]

4. he claimed...

...he created it because his daughter wondered why she didn't have "good hair."

:shrug:

i applaud the thought behind the effort. i think it's nice he wanted to help his daughter, and point out how ridiculous the notion of "good hair vs. bad hair" is.

but i'll be honest, i take issue w/the fact that this was done by a man. a man that i doubt dated women that wore natural hair (when he was dating). also a man that i doubt is going to challenge (or explore) the issues of male sexism, lookism or any of the other issues that keep women doing some of what they do, on at least one level.

all of the above just makes me wonder--is this film making fun of black women? or is it an attempt to help (and support them)by looking at the larger issues that drive those that make such efforts w/their hair? ....or what? :shrug:

but that's just my $.02.. :eyes:
whatever that's worth. (sigh)

[firedupdem]

6. is this film making fun of black women?

That's exactly the thought I had, and that is exactly what I fear will happen.

[bliss_eternal]

9. not sure at all....

...but it's difficult for me to think otherwise, given how often black women are the butt of the black male comedian's jokes. (i.e. the butts, the hair, the ATTITUDE, the sex, parenting styles or lack thereof, etc.) :shrug:

given some of rock's prior comments (some jokes, some not) regarding "black women" (see links below)...i'm unable to place a lot of hope in a project (for and about black women), coming from this man.

there. i said it. :grr::mad:


Quote:

Barack has a handicap the other candidates don't have: Barack Obama has a black wife. And I don't think a black woman can be first lady of the United States. Yeah, I said it! A black woman can be president, no problem. First lady? Can't do it. You know why? Because a black woman cannot play the background of a relationship. Just imagine telling your black wife that you're president? 'Honey, I did it! I won! I'm the president.' 'No, we the president! And I want my girlfriends in the Cabinet! I want Kiki to be secretary of state! She can fight!' "

http://www.npr.org/blogs/newsandviews/2008/03/chris_rock_reveals_obamas_hand.html


Quote:

Throughout “Kill the Messenger,” Rock never misses a chance to paint women, particularly black women, as adversaries. Much is made about women viewing men as sources of money and stuff. Rock jokes that when a woman sees something she wants, she thinks: “Who can I get to get me that?” Rock isn’t saying all women are golddiggers, but we ain’t messing with no broke…broke…

The idea of a man working to support a slave-driving woman seems a little musty, since most women today, well, have jobs. The act seems particularly odd as it relates to black women. Listen to CNN and black women have done too well. Our degrees, jobs and mortgages have rendered us unloveable, because black men have been left behind. What man wants a self sufficient woman who doesn’t need him? (sarcasm–for those that missed it.) et listen to Rock and black women spend our lives demanding goodies from our miserable partners. Where’s the “it’s funny, cause it’s true?”

http://www.racialicious.com/2008/09/30/save-it-for-your-therapist-chris/


it seems that there is frequently much personal truth espoused from an individual's "routines" and "jokes."
why would rock be any different?

[noiretextatique]

21. i am very nervous about chris rock doing this

since i pretty much can't stand him :hi:

[bliss_eternal]

22. lol.

:hi:
you'll have to fill me in sometime on your feelings about him. i liked some of his work (once upon a time), but am over that now. ;)

[noiretextatique]

24. i just don't like him

and his "i'm a good negro" crap. i can't say much more than that because i refuse to watch him :hi: he was ok on snl.

[Fire1]

27. He's a good guy I'm sure and I've quoted him a couple of times

but he's never been that funny to me as a comedian. As an actor, I guess he'll pass but I often wonder how the hell he made it!!

[bliss_eternal]

28. lol!

:shrug:

i guess his popularity as a comedian, helped him get roles as an actor.
there are comedians that i consider "good actors." he just isn't one of them. :(

[bliss_eternal]

29. hehehehe!

that's a good term for his schtick,"...i'm a good negro."
:rofl:

i didn't care for his work on snl. i feel it paled in comparison to eddie murphy's prior work on the show.
the only thing he's done i liked was "everybody hates chris." (kind of ironic, title :spray:).

i don't watch it. dh rented a season, one weekend. i wasn't all that interested in it, and was surprised at how good it was (funny)--his best work, imo.

:pals::hi:

[Number23]

5. What are you grumpy about?? But you still asked the Question of the Day

"What is the point??"

Kind of Blue gave her thoughts on it when we first discussed this and I hear what she's saying and love her perspective on that she thinks this is an educational tool. But I still don't get why this movie is needed.

Maybe if it was only showing at Magic Johnson theaters in black neighborhoods that would make a difference but we all know Chris is gonna put this in as many theaters as he can to make SURE he racks in the $$$.

[firedupdem]

7. Yup...I'm hoping it will be educational in some aspects but I don't

see a comedian creating such a film. I'm hoping that it isn't some kind of joke fest showing women who certaintly can't afford it, loaded up in beauty salons getting weaves etc. :eyes:

Weird time of the year....I always get the blues going into the fall. I experienced lots of loss in the fall in previous years and I think that has a lot to do with it. I'm going to the gym now to jog the blues away!

[Number23]

14. Okay.

I experienced lots of loss in the fall in previous years and I think that has a lot to do with it.

:hug:

Can you do me a favor?? Can you do some crunches and about 23 minutes on the treadmill for me?? Girl, I have been a straight up SLUG since I found out I was pregnant.

I promise I'm going to do better soon but right now I get motion sickness standing up too fast. The thought of lifting weights sounds about as appealing as warm beer right now.

[Raineyb]

8. That's been my attitude towards all this: What's the point?

Why did he make this movie? I guess I'll take his word about doing it for his daughter but to be perfectly honest, I don't want white people thinking they know something about my hair. And from the OP it looks like it's just going to end up with us being the butt of jokes again about our hair.

"Heh heh did you see the stupid woman spending 1000 bucks on a weave?" Because that is what's going to end up being what's remembered in the long run.

<sigh>

[bliss_eternal]

10. when or if...

he makes a documentary featuring the men, and all their issues around OUR HAIR...then i might be inclined to not be offended by this one.

case in point, how does chris rock's wife wear her hair?

how many women would he, or any of his friend's give the time of day to (back in the day), if they didn't have hair swinging, over their shoulders and/or all down their backs?

how many sisters would any of these guys seriously consider as a potential gf, mate, etc. who wore a short or long afro, locs, braids, etc.

i've worn my hair short, long and every way in between.
i've had braids, did a weave once, had a teeny weeny afro, a texturizer and a bone straight relaxer.

guess which hair styles garnered the most nasty comments from brothers?
and no, i did not invite these opinions. all were unsolicited, and totally rude. :shrug::cry::banghead::grr::mad:

bottom line, as women--the whole world thinks they are entitled to tell us what is or is not "appropriate" as far as how we look (i.e. weight, style of dress, hair length color, style, etc.)....sorry but i call bullshit.

[Number23]

15. "I don't want white people thinking they know something about my hair."

Girl, PREACH! :fistbump:

I still remember Chris Rock doing his little joke a while ago about black men wanting white women. And when the sistas in the audience booed he looked at them and said, "deal with it." I don't know what his problem is anymore. Is his wife about to take him for everything he has or something??? 'Cause he has Bitter Brother written all over him.

[bliss_eternal]

3. i reject the terms,"good hair"...

...and "bad hair."

if one's hair is bad--what does that mean, exactly? does it jump off one's head at night, abandoning a person's body to commit crimes? :shrug:

i sincerely wish those terms would die, once and for all. they are divisive and do nothing but create bad feelings.

i had mixed feelings when i heard rock did this project.
though, i've seen scenes from it that cracked me up (in spite of myself).

if he doesn't call his fellow males on their issues with women's hair, (in terms of "why" some sisters will go to such lengths for their hair)...i'm going to have a major problem w/mr. rock.

for example, i recall quite vividly dl hughley saying once, "i need a sister w/a perm."
sure it was during one of his comedy shows, but given i've seen his mate's hair...i don't think he was lying. i also don't think he's particularly unique in his stance. he can wear his hair locked, but probably wouldn't be interested in a woman w/a hairstyle like that. wonder why?

:eyes:

[AspenRose]

11. Y'all have given me some stuff to think about

Mainly about Rock's propensity to use black women as a source of humor. Thinking about the preview I've seen for the movie, I can recall some jokes that would certainly come across that way (e.g. telling the woman in India that if she sees a lot of black women coming after her for her hair, to run). But I also remember a joke in the preview he made about Prince and relaxers, and Al Sharpton was rather self-deprecating about his hair. And near the end of the preview, he confronts a Korean store owner about "my (nappy) hair wouldn't be good enough....." I forgot to add that he does go to a black barber shop and asks the bruhs about some of their issues with black women and their hair, but what I remember of that preview doesn't exactly put black women in the most positive light.

If you haven't seen the movie previews yet, you can judge for yourself....me and my loctitian are thinking about getting a group of us from the shop to go see it. Most importantly I hope this project has given CHRIS ROCK some things to think about and reconsider, especially having daughters. Maya Angelou's in it so maybe it isn't ALL bad.

http://www.goodhairmovie.net/

http://www.youtube.com/user/GoodHairMovie

I cannot imagine paying $1000 for a weave. :wow:

[bliss_eternal]

12. that's the low end...

seriously.

quiet as it's kept (or not) non-ethnic women get hair extensions just as frequently (if not more so) than women of color. particularly women of wealth (i.e. celebrity wives, models, actresses, political wives, etc.). salons specializing in this sort of service, wouldn't do much for $1000.

A grand might, cover the cost of the hair. :spray:

for great lengths hair extensions (a brand name popular in upscale salons), the range is anywhere from $2500-$3500.

http://www.veredsalon.com/

this salon provided nicole richie and paris hilton's hair extension, and many of the "playmates" for playboy. click on their before and afters, how many ethnic women do you see? ;)

while channel surfing late one night, i encountered denise richard's show on e! denise's long, glorious hair? extensions. and she wasn't shy about revealing it. i thought she could benefit from having a black female friend in the moment, she was struggling with how to "wrap it" before bed (which was cracking her up).

[cyndensco]

13. I agree with Number 23 and Raineyb on Rock's new movie.

If it were shown exclusively to us, I am sure I would enjoy it. Shown to a broad audience, I am not sure the ramifications would be worth it. They might feel they know too much.

I thought Rock's black vs. n*gger skit was hilarious. Hearing white people cite the difference, "Chris Rock even said it", is maddening! Were the initial laughs worth the "enlightening" of others - more, the license of others to refer to it? Probably not.

It's like my sister and I can complain about our mother, but the minute someone else does: FOUL! (I feel the same way about Obama, which, I know, is a stretch. He does feel like family). :shrug:

I like Chris Rock but sometimes he provides TMI.

And that's my opinion before all the hair stuff....

[Number23]

16. I think that's the main issue

One of the main reasons that black culture has endured is because it is so PROTECTED. Black folks all lived in the same neighborhoods back in the day because of segregation and housing discrimination. Now many of us CHOOSE to live in areas where we are the majority. It's that sense of community and of belonging that is so important to so many blacks. (And one of the reasons me and firedupdem are going batsh*t crazy being so far away from it.) :)

When white folks and others get a glimpse into black life, they don't have the first clue what to do with that information. Your "blacks vs. niggas" is a prime example. And as has been seen on DU time and time and time again, when black folks make even the most cursory attempt to explain our thinking, our culture and our history, it is dismissed, rejected, ignored etc. by folks who think that they know us better than we know ourselves.

So why do others even need to be a factor into the conversation about OUR culture?? My personal thoughts are that I could give less than a damn what a non-black person thinks about our hair care regimen/obsession. So again, the question is -- What is The Point???

[jmm]

17. I'm sure Chris Rock's intentions are good but

I'm willing to bet the barely fleshed out reason for the film will be buried in a bunch of jokes. How many will see this and won't focus on the larger but poorly addressed issue but instead feel entitled to tell black women how to feel without dealing with why they feel the way they do about their hair while ignoring their role in promoting the concepts of good and bad hair?

[fortyfeetunder]

18. Check out this thread from..Diversity Inc...regarding natural hair

Do Blacks Need to Relax Their Natural Hair to Get Promoted?


www.diversityinc.com/public/4731.cfm

[jmm]

19. I've had a couple of jobs tell me I need to look more professional.

The first time it was because I came to work with my hair braided. This was at a retail job I had in college and while my boss was lecturing me two men interrupted us to ask me out. The second time while working over 60 hrs in a humid, rainy week I was suppose to lose sleep and slave over my "good hair" instead of pulling it back in a bun and wearing a black head band. Both times I washed my hair before the next shift and did absolutely nothing else to it. Then I confronted the people who told me I shouldn't have anything in my hair and they never complained again. I realize this wasn't conducive to job security but I knew both jobs needed me more than I needed them.

I hear often that my hair is "good" or "nice" (Apparently trying to make me complicit in putting down others is suppose to be a compliment :shrug:) but when some of those same people see it braided, twisted, straightened, see my siblings who all have straight hair, etc their feelings can quickly change.

[AspenRose]

20. Oh, man....do I love this comment

"It is not the job of black women to make their white counterparts feel more comfortable with their style."

AMEN!

The banking industry is especially egregious regarding natural hair styles. When I was working for a bank (and I should add I was not dealing with customers directly) I had a supervisor tell me my braids were not professional. The very sad irony is that this same supervisor later passed away from breast cancer (lost her hair, etc.). I can't help but wonder if her perspectives about hair and its supposed importance in looking "professional" changed as she went through her chemotherapy. She went through the 'wig' phase and the 'scarf' stage as she continued working.

I am not my hair, and while she was here on this earth, she was not her hair, either. What should have been deemed important was competence on the job.

[Number23]

25. I was just about to give him MAJOR props until I got to this part

"Sen. Obama won a decisive majority of white people's votes, so if you think your company really isn't "ready for that," it may be that your perception is out of date."

Awwwww damn!!! ((cue Price is Right failure trumpet))

He just COMPLETELY lost it there. What the hell does Obama getting white votes have to do with the day to day issues faced by blacks in corporate America?? Are we just supposed to ASSume that the whites in this woman's company voted for Obama?? And even if they did, what that means that they cannot POSSIBLY have racial/color biases and/or be assholes??

Man, white folks are patting themselves on the back about Obama so hard they're going to break their arms.

[AspenRose]

23. Oh, boy. The hair wars continue....

http://www.rallycongress.com/treasuredlocks/937/

I don't think this is accurate. One of my friends is an Air Force Reservist and she has locs. I don't think she's been disciplined for it, but she has received less than supportive comments about her hair. She keeps it up in a bun or chignon when in uniform.

[Number23]

26. Wow!

Can you let us know if this is real? Every black woman I've known in the military has had braids or close-cropped hair but that was because they were stationed 1 million miles away from the closest hair salon.

I haven't known very many sisters in the Air Force. If this is real, I'll be the first to sign!

[AspenRose]

30. My AF Reserve friend said yes, it's for real

I asked her if there was a difference between reserves and active duty, and how she's able to get away with it, and this was her response:



"No there is no difference and plus I work with all Active Duty people. They tell me as long as it is "Neat and off my collar". They tried to make me cut it about 3 years ago, but I refused and then people started complaining to Equal Opportunity on base and the Air Force backed off."

[AspenRose]

31. Tyra Banks "gets real" about her hair....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pisyysp24rw