So everyone is up in arms about the vicious attack by Dole

[YankeyMCC]

calling someone gasp!

"Godless"

:eyes:

Yes, she is lying about her opponent and taking advantage of the prejudice of the voters but hardly any mention in the thread (one post so far) that calling someone 'godless' should not be automatically considered an insult.

[cosmik debris]

1. On the Greatest Page there is a thread with 103 recs

About using the term "gay" as an insult.

I wish atheists could reach that level of courtesy from the DU population.

It sorta makes my head spin.

[YankeyMCC]

2. It shouldn't amaze me but it always does

how blind people can be to their own prejudices.

[jonnyblitz]

9. i guess as a gay atheist (the double whammy) i don't stand

a chance. :D

[deepthought42]

3. They're talking about it right now on MSNBC

again. To say I'm pissed is an understatement. Oh, no! Not godless! How horrible. :eyes:

Not once have I heard anyone on tv say "Being an Atheist isn't a bad thing..." Too much to hope for, I know.

[progressoid]

4. Yeah, I'm a little irked.

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised since we rank at the bottom of the barrel of "trustworthiness" but it does get a tiresome.

And of course Hagen can't defend an atheist or agnostic - God ;) forbid she be associated with us. :eyes:

[LeftishBrit]

5. WARNING: an evil godless message from the secular Dark Continent of Europe!

Her words were shocking to a Brit, I can assure you.


I am atheist, and would not welcome my MP using me as a target for abuse to get himself reelected. Only he wouldn't, because he's just what Dole accused Hagan of being: an open atheist and an official in the National Secular Society. He's an excellent MP, too. So I feel insulted both as an individual and a voter by Dole's vile mouth.

Considering that our Foreign Secretary is also openly atheist, this also seems a bit of an insult to the country and 'special relationship' as a whole.

As I said on one of the other threads, she needs to decide whether she wants to live and deal with other countries in the modern world, or try and turn American government into something like the Taliban or Inquisition.

I remember her husband running for president, and that he was an idiot with no chance against Clinton; but I don't remember him coming across as a religious fanatic.

[onager]

10. Bob Dole may be an atheist!

First of all, hello LB. I thought you would join us here! Glad to see you on the REAL Dark Side! :hi:

Granted, Bob Dole often looked idiotic in the 1996 campaign. But he's actually an old-time moderate conservative, not a faux-religious ideologue like his crazy wife. In the '96 campaign, Dole was extremely uncomfortable at having to suck up to the Religious Right and it often showed.

One of our bargain-basement Ayatollahs, "Dr." James (Dog-Beater) Dobson, tried his best to keep Dole from getting the 1996 nomination. Dobson is so arrogant that he actually issued press releases claiming he would make sure Dole lost. When Dole won the nomination anyway, he gave Dobson a big "up-yours" by working against the anti-abortion plank in the GOP platform, among other things.

Oh, and unusually for a politician, Bob Dole is famous for a dark and sarcastic sense of humor: “History buffs probably noted the reunion at a Washington party a few weeks ago of three ex-presidents: Carter, Ford and Nixon - See No Evil, Hear No Evil and Evil.”

His wife apparently had her sense of humor exorcised by James Dobson.

But according to a couple of his interviews, Dole may be one of us...amazing as that seems.

Chris Matthews interview in 2005: "I have to ask you a philosophical question. Do you believe in an afterlife?"
Dole: "I'm not certain."
Matthews: "So, it could just be that those soldiers who get killed, that is just the end for them?"
Dole: "I think — well, that would be my view."

Bob Woodward, on PBS' Frontline: "Dole does not have a religious way, as best I can tell, of looking at the world. When religion would come up he would say, well Elizabeth believes that God may have a plan for you, that you have to discover God's will and so forth.

And Dole talks with his eyes and his body language, half sentences, and you could just tell in watching it, you would see that he was almost literally rolling his eyes at these concepts, not out of disdain, but out of, that's not part of, that's not the way I see the world. It's not a lens through which he lives or thinks as best I could tell."

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/bates/050419

[LeftishBrit]

17. Interesting

As far as I remember from observing the 1996 election from over here, Dole was on the wrong side of economic issues, etc, but seemed at least basically sane and not a religious nut. So it did startle me when his wife went off her rocker on this issue. (Incidentally, in Britain 'Dole' would be a most unfortunate name for a politician, as it's the usual term for unemployment benefit!)

At any rate, I note that Liddy Dole lost rather resoundingly, and serve her right!

[LeftishBrit]

18. Also...

I now remember that Dole was replaced as senator by the loony-religious-right Brownback, and that this was against his wishes: he had backed someone more moderate, but Brownback won the primary.

This makes his wife's extremism seem even stranger.

[reprobate]

13. Just shows how backward and ignorant we (US) are in the world of nations.

[funflower]

6. What's especially egregious is that there's no evidence Dole is even religious.

Just the usual GOP hypocrisy at work.

[FM Arouet666]

7. Atheists have a very long way to go

Civil rights for us is going to take a very long time. We are in the minority and will likely remain in the minority unless there is a drastic change in education. Atheism is not something you are born with. If you are female or African American or Gay, recognition of your civil rights hinges on the fact that you are born into your minority status, you cannot change it even if you desired. And yes, I know the fundies will debate homosexuality as a choice, they are nuts, eventually homosexuals will be given equality. But Atheists? Not in my lifetime. Godless = Evil.

[jonnyblitz]

8. I criticized the DEM for considering it "defamation" in a few of

the threads but I never want back to see if people were giving me shit about it. Lately i just want to speak my mind and move on and not go back and forth with the people who might disagree.

[Jokerman]

11. That whole thing just makes me sad.

The attack AND the response.

Another lost chance to debunk the Atheist = Evil bullshit.

[pink-o]

12. Yeah, plenty of people took umbrage here for McCain's remarks about Arabs

When he said Obama isn't an Arab, he's a "decent family man" a lot of people pointed out how insulting that was.

But not a soul has come to the defense of those of us who're "Godless".

I honestly think there is no one in American society more reviled than the Atheist/Agnostic. Not even a gay, black muslim would be so repudiated. As long as these crazies think they can rope you into their creationist fairy tale, they'll give you a chance. But once you've voiced sanity and reason (i.e. you say since God can't be proven, he has no place in my life and I'll trust my own judgement, Thank You) you're immediately marginalised.

I'm pretty sure The System has to make us Pariahs because we're far more difficult to brainwash and manipulate. So this is the consequence of living with so many kool-aid drinkers.

[and-justice-for-all]

14. She meant it to be derogitaory and rude...

there is nothing wrong with not believing in the nonexistent, I sent Dole a response to her statement.

It is not an insult, but how it was meant was. When a repuke asshole does this shit, they are trying to poke you in the eye with it. Kay, should just say "I am not an Atheist, but there is nothing wrong with someone who is." That will make Dole look like a bigot.

[moggie]

15. Dole is out!

Behold the awesome power of the godless! Well, probably not, and Hagan isn't exactly our friend, but it's good to see Dole beaten.

[PassingFair]

16. I think Dole lost BECAUSE people didn't tolerate the attack on atheists.

I think it is a MAJOR win for the "atheist lobby"!

We can donate and give money as a PAC, and have
our candidate WIN.

[sarcasmo]

19. I would proudly respond with a Thank You.

[dmallind]

20. Yes I agree - and we let Hagan get off too easily too

The nigh-universal applause from DU when she counter attacked aggressively completely missed the fact that there was absolutely not one hint of defending atheists' rights to appeal to their political representatives or her responsibility to her non-believing constituents being the same as to the believers.

Don't get me wrong I did not expect political suicide by her saying "yes I love atheists and I think they have many good points even if I disagree? but why did THAT lie above all others hurt her so much she felt the need to both sue and create a 30second rebuttal? Why did she get so hurt and offended by that implication instead of those of being a tax and spend surrender monkey who wants to raise taxes and all teh other lies?

The fact that DU did not expect, and even congratulated the absence of, a perfectly reasonable inclusionary message saying something like "I'm running to represent all North Carolinians, whether they share my deep faith in God or not" is very telling. I echo sentiments above - if anyone had responded to false accusations of being gay, or Jewish, or Muslim, without including the "not that there's anything wrong with that" token sensitivity, DU would have been in uproar. On a site where the believers feel victimized (yeah right - 83% of the nation and 100% of the political power is oppression I could live with even if it meant some sarcasm on DU) it sure sounded awfully quiet when atheists were thrown under the church bus.

[muriel_volestrangler]

21. A good article from The Independent in the UK on this:

Hang on a minute: the result of the American election is good news, but let's not get carried away. The Democratic Party is liberal but it's still not enlightened, and the election campaign has been a reminder of a huge gulf between the United States and Europe on a key issue. Barack Obama's Democrats may no longer be afraid of the L-word, but now it's the A-word which has to be avoided at all costs, even to the point of suing an opponent who suggests you might not believe in God. In a closely-fought Senate contest in North Carolina, the Democratic candidate reacted with fury and a libel suit when her Republican opponent wrongly implied she was an atheist. Instead of shrugging off Elizabeth Dole's accusation, Kay Hagan responded as though she'd been branded a paedophile. They both need to read Article VI of the US Constitution, which lays down that "no religious test" should ever be required as a qualification to hold public office.

Hagan isn't an atheist. So what? I'm not a Christian and I'd be mildly offended if someone suggested I was, but I wouldn't respond as though I'd been called an axe murderer. In this country, we have Cabinet ministers who are relaxed about saying they don't believe in God, and being an atheist is no bar to getting elected. In the last census, just over 8.5 million people (15 per cent) said they had no religion, and almost 400,000 showed what they thought about the question by declaring themselves Jedi Knights. In France, a poll last year suggested that almost a third of the population describe themselves as atheists. In the Czech Republic, almost 60 per cent say they have no religion.

I can't be the only secular European whose flesh creeps when an American politician declares, "We need Christians on Capitol Hill, Jews on Capitol Hill and Muslims on Capitol Hill" to oppose taxes which favour the rich. That was Obama, calling for "an injection of morality in our political debate" as though believers have a monopoly on fairness and justice. I would have thought there are already quite enough Christians on Capitol Hill, and many more (such as Sarah Palin) panting to join them. Last year, when an American secularist group offered a prize of $1,000 to the highest-ranking politician willing to come out as an atheist, there was only one taker: Peter Stark, a Democrat from San Francisco and the only declared non-believer among 535 members of Congress.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/joan-smith/joan-smith-obama-enlightened-yes-liberal-no-1003456.html

[YankeyMCC]

22. Good one thanks nt