For the love of the FSM!

[deepthought42]

I must be too nice, because I was SO tempted to smack someone upside the head in class tonight.

In my class on tragedy we were discussing Ibsen's "A Doll's House" and "Hedda Gabler." And do you know what the girl next to me said about the main characters of "A Doll's House?"

"If they only had Christ in their life, a little humility...blah blah blah...it's not a marriage of equals, blah blah blah (something about some passage in the bible about wives being submissive, can someone find that?) blah blah blah but husbands should be humble too and lay down their lives for their wives if necessary..."

I don't know how you get that discussing Nora and Torvald from "A Doll's House," but whatever.

I knew she was a Jesus freak. She is always trying to tie everything we discuss in class to Christianity.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

If only she knew who was sitting next to her, being oh so fucking nice to her... :evilgrin:

[laconicsax]

1. If it helps, my wife was in a class like that but there were only 2 godbags to 8 atheists.

"They tried to drag Christianity in to everything, but we smacked them down."

Her words.

[deepthought42]

4. I want to be in that class.

I freakin' swear I am surrounded in some of my classes by Jesus people... No one argued with her in class. Maybe they were too stupified by her statements, but I doubt it...

[enlightenment]

2. Maybe the next time she tries to tie her personal belief

system to something, you can follow-up with either questions or just a statement that levels her argument - it would also serve the dual purpose of showing the professor that you have a good understanding of the complexities of the piece in question.

You don't have to be nice to her. If her argument is flawed, go after the flaws - that is the process of intellectual discourse and if she can't back up her position, you come out the winner. You don't even have to bring your lack of belief into the discussion (and you shouldn't, because that takes it down to her level and detracts from the point of the piece you're examining).

They don't call academia a jungle for no reason . . . you just need to make sure you stay at the top of the food chain!

[deepthought42]

3. I was tempted, but...

I am extremely shy. And I get the feeling that I'm alone amongst the church-goers...

[enlightenment]

6. If it's any consolation, I was the sole unbeliever in

a "Bible as Literature" class. Even the teacher was all over the religious bent and I was hard-pressed to keep my cool as he wouldn't brook any criticism of the more wildly fanatical fundies in the room. It eventually came to a head over a "I believe this is the word of god and it shouldn't be questioned" comment from one of the wild-eyed loons . . . I said, "then why the hell are you taking a 'Bible as LITERATURE' class?" The professor told me to apologise - I told him he should apologise to me because I had enrolled in a Lit class, not Bible study - and did he really want the department to find out how it was being taught? (I won that round, by the way - but he punished me by giving me an A-minus instead of an A for the course. Tosser.)

It doesn't sound like you have that problem - although I'm surprised your instructor didn't challenge the girl's statements. Still, it's worth it for you to do it. Really. Not just as a skeptic, but as a student. I teach college history and I WANT my students to challenge what they hear. You don't have to address her directly - you address the nature of her commentary instead, by presenting your perspective on it. As long as you argument is rational, you've nothing to fear by stating it (particularly since the irrational is apparently accepted without comment . . .) Even if you are the only unbeliever there, the class is discussing secular literature, not religion (and most people realise that, even if they are god-talkers).

Don't be shy - you lose out on the very best part of learning by not speaking up!

Go, you!

[deepthought42]

8. I wish it were that easy...

But the thought of it brings me to tears...it really is not so easy.

Sounds like an awful class. There is some type of comparative religion class or something they offer here. I'm avoiding that one...heh.

What I need is a stiff drink to take to class. I'm nice and outgoing after a couple. :beer: ;)

Edited to add: Damnit! Why can't I have a class with you??? lol

[enlightenment]

9. Okay - try this, instead.

Find one particular section of the next book you read and concentrate on understanding it - or choose a character you find particularly interesting and work on really understanding them. Write out your thoughts on that section or character - write as if you were explaining it to a friend. Read what you've written out loud TO a friend or family member. Ask them if they see any gaping holes in your thoughts. Fill them, if so.

Then practice talking about it - go in the bathroom and talk to yourself in the mirror. It's not crazy, it's a good way to get over your paralyzing shyness because you can SEE for yourself what you look like as you deliver your thoughts - and whether you realise it or not, you have a concern about how you LOOK to others; that's part of what causes the fear. So get used to what you do look like when you're talking about these things. Make faces at yourself, explore your range of expressions.

You don't have to express your secular views - you might want to if they fit the topic, but don't try to wedge them in if they don't. What you need to do is get past your fear of speaking out.

You CAN do it. Believe in yourself. Start small, start with something non-controversial if you need to do that. But you have important things to share. In a classroom, students' learn as much from each other a they do from the instructor. Consider that you have ideas and thoughts that could give your classmates some real food for thought.

There is nothing quite as frustrating as knowing you have good things to say and not feeling comfortable saying them - and it's especially frustrating when you know that the only thing holding you back is YOU.

Promise me you'll try, okay? Because I know you can do it, if you'll just give it a shot. I know I sound like a cheerleader, but sometimes we all need a bit of rah-rah!
:headbang:

[Goblinmonger]

5. Even if that is what she believes

how can she POSSIBLY have read the play and think that was the point Ibsen was making.

She's a tool.

[deepthought42]

7. I don't think she thought that's what he was saying

That's just what SHE thought it should say, I think. There is a lack of religion in these plays, and I think that bothered her. Poor thing... :sarcasm:

Side note... We watched "A Long Day's Journey Into Night" by O'Neill (with Katherine Hepburn) in class last week or so. There's one scene where the father is arguing with the younger son (named Edmond, but is supposed to be modeled after Euguene O'Neill). He starts ranting about the books Edmond reads, rattling off a list of the authors, including Ibsen. Then the father declares, "Atheists!"

That part made me giggle on the inside and think "Oh no! The atheists are coming!" :evilgrin: