I want to comment on the Warren prayer.

[roody]

I can't take ANYBODY seriously who gets up in front of people and talks to a supposed being in the sky that he has never heard nor seen and asks for intervention that has never been documented. I don't care if he is a right winger or not---he is an idiot in my eyes. I can't take the people around him seriously either since they are pretending that there is some great being in the sky. We will progress as a nation when this ridiculous play is over. Obama should know better. Wasn't he brought up in an agnostic environment?

[Joe the Liberal]

1. Warren is just a bad choice.............

Now I understand that if you ever want to be elected to public office in this country you HAVE to believe in the Christian god or at least pretend to, that's a given. on top of that you HAVE to have some pastor speak or pray at your inauguration but out of all the pastors why did he pick that right wing asshat Warren?

[roody]

2. That will soon fall by the wayside as we progress.

It only takes one person to disprove it.

[laconicsax]

11. Because he agrees with Warren on marriage equality?

He had a chance to do so before the election and he used that opportunity to say, "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman."

[Hamlette]

3. He has to have some religious person do the invocation, what I don't get

is how anyone can get that upset about it.

To me, believing that gays are evil/inferior/bad is not any more crazy than believing in god.

If you can believe in God, you can believe in anything.

I can't possibly take him or the whole dust up seriously.

I wonder if mankind will ever drop this religious shit.

(And yes, I think both Obama's parents were atheists and his grandparents are described as "not religious." I prefer to believe he "found god" so he could have a place at the table in America. I don't admire people who take that position but I'd much rather have that than a true believer.)

[enlightenment]

4. Piffle. There is no requirement for an invocation.

He could have someone stand up and recite the first page of the DC phone directory.

The constant insertion of religion into government is unbelievably annoying, but the issue here isn't the fact that he's bracketed his ceremony with pastors - it's that he seems to think that he can cancel out a bigot with a liberal.

The inauguration is a highly symbolic event, both a metaphorical and literal passing of the torch. Every part of that event carries weight and meaning and should be decided with care.

I appreciate your feelings, but as much as I'd like to blow it off, it just isn't possible. Rick Warren isn't just any old preachy windbag, he's a powerful and influential windbag who espouses the most hateful sort of bigotry. Not just against gays, but against women and any other group he disgrees with or simply doesn't accept in his narrow little worldview.

His two minutes on the podium won't create policy in the Obama administration, but symbolically they will link Obama - forever - with Warren's filthy brand of evangelical Christianity. Obama says that it is important to be inclusive, but if that's so, why not include a racist like David Dukes?

The answer to that question is obvious, right? To even suggest he do so is just plain foolish. So how is Obama defining 'inclusion'? He's sure not including us - haven't heard a word about an evil atheist making the podium and we, from what I've heard, account for a larger percentage of the US population than the GLBT community.

Respect is earned, not given as a gift, and Obama is dangerously close to losing the respect of a great many people - as much as it would be more convenient to blow it off as a silly religious 'thing'.



*edited to correct an error

[roody]

7. So protest must begin on Day 1.

[Hamlette]

8. no doing the invocation would make the religious right insane

I fear they would go after Obama like the elves went after Clinton, only worse.

I don't want to spend the next 8 years defending against bullshit "he's a muslim" crap.

take a stand, but take it someplace that is meaningful not just symbolic bs that can only hurt and not help move us forward.

[enlightenment]

10. I don't believe I suggested that he not have an invocation,

just that it isn't a requirement (i.e., he could have someone read the phone book if he wanted to do so).

My concern isn't over the invocation, which is annoying from my perspective as an atheist, but over his choice for delivering the invocation.

Rick Warren is a polarizing figure on any day - the damage his inclusion in the inauguration will do may be profound. As I said, respect is earned. Once it is lost it's a lot harder to get back. Mr. Obama should have given more thought to his decision (and, ultimately, it was his decision. He could have said he preferred someone else).

[YankeyMCC]

5. I have to say that I think believing homosexuals are evil or bad

is much worse than believing in god. Yes, if a person can accept the idea of a god they are perhaps more likely to fall pray to other false beliefs. But the belief that homosexuals are bad is a much more direct line to causing harm to real people than the belief in a fair tale is.

So it might be a matter of degree or how short the line is between the belief and the harm done to real people but the two beliefs are not equally harmful in my eyes.

[Kolesar]

6. Rick Warren is either applying Christianity in a manner that emphasizes hatred of gays...

...or he actually believes that scripture directs him thusly. Therefore, he is either a dick or a dupe.

His grooming and his whole attire is a mess. He looks like somebody who just threw on a shirt to out to the mailbox. A leader should try to cut a more impressive image that reflects self confidence, discipline and personal responsibility. Warren looks like he couldn't do eight push ups. And what's with the neck? Definite Jerry Falwell territory there.

He could try to be more like Joel Osteen. I heard on DU that he can bench press hundreds of pounds. His clothes look great and he can fit a necktie. What he talks about is about as uninteresting as hearing my relatives recall their last trip to Las Vegas, but nonetheless he looks like he cuts an image that respects his followers. And he urges his female parishioners to shop at Victoria's Secret for their underwear (like his delicious missus, presumably).

[laconicsax]

12. They're upset because

he told the LGBT community that he will stand for them and then turned around and honored a leading advocate of homophobic bigotry under the guise of 'togetherness.'

They're upset because he lied to them to get their support during the election and tossed them under the bus before he's even inaugurated.

They're upset because Warren was one of the principal architects of Prop. 8.

He tossed the non-religious community under the bus a very long time ago so we've never expected anything from him on that level.

[roody]

13. All presidential candidates lie.

Well except possibly for Kucinich.

[laconicsax]

9. You can't expect anything less from Obama

He's a godbag who hides behind his religion to excuse his bigotry. He has stated on several occasions that he opposes marriage equality on religious grounds.

I remember tons of people here fawning over his 'Call to Renewal' speech because he pointed out the practical difficulty in labeling the US a "Christian Nation." What everyone seemed to ignore was that the theme of the speech was 'religious faith is a wonderful thing and should be part of everyone's daily life.'

http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060628-call_to_renewal/

Also notice the part where he directed his staff to change the language on his website because an anti-choice bigot took issue with it.:puke:

I'm just disappointed that it took something like honoring Warren to make some people realize that in all matters even remotely religious, Obama will always side with the godbags against progressives.