Does this make sense?

[cynatnite]

The laws of logic are conceptual by nature (important point). They cannot be measured weighed or photographed just like love and humility. The laws of logic are absolute. They don’t change if we don’t disagree with them. The laws of logic are transcendent, meaning that logical absolutes do not change depending where or what time period you’re in. Is it logical to conclude that if there’s a concept, then there’s a mind? Since we have conceptual, absolute and transcendent absolutes there must be a conceptual, absolute and transcendent mind. I call this mind God. If you do not agree please demonstrate to me how it isn’t valid. Please show me in your own logical way that this isn’t true. Of course if you do this you must use logic, and through my theory you must borrow from the Christian worldview to try and make your case to argue against the Christian worldview. So how do you account for logic from the atheist worldview? I don’t believe you can and it’s because your atheistic viewpoint does not contort with reality but the Christian worldview does.

I've read it twice and I still don't understand this. It came from the following blog where the question was asked at how we came to be atheists.

http://proudatheists.wordpress.com/2009/09/29/how-did-you-discover-your-atheism-open-discussion/#comment-14312

[Tobin S.]

1. Sounds like bullshit to me

What I think has happened here is that this person has probably lost one too many debates with atheists on the internet. Probably atheists who used logic to shoot down his or her religious world view. Then this poor person spent a bunch of time trying to come up with something to try to beat the atheists at their own game.

This person seems to think that the mind is something other than the brain- like it's some part of us that is not made of matter. I can clearly demonstrate that the mind is a physical organ called the brain by skipping a few doses of my anti-psychotic medication. The drug corrects a physical abnormality in the brain, be it brain chemistry or actual brain damage. The drug doesn't float above my head correcting something that is not matter.

Since the brain is the mind there can be nothing absolute or transcendent about it, therefore no conceptual, absolute, and transcendent mind called God that gives it those attributes.

That's my take anyway, and I am by no means experienced in the ways of arguing about religion and I'm not some great intellect. I drive a truck for a living. Take from it what you will.

[Warpy]

2. Believer twaddle never makes sense to me

which is why I'm an atheist.

This is convoluted, even for them, and boils down to a wordy tautology.

[immoderate]

3. Whatever it is, it's not logic.

I'm not sure I've worked with "absolute absolutes" before. And "transcendent absolutes" makes me :crazy:.

I like what Warpy said -- tautology. Yes, these folks can think circles around themselves.

--imm

[Iggo]

8. You see, there are known knowns, unknown knowns...

...known unknowns, and unknown unknowns.

I hope that clears it up. :P

[NMMNG]

4. The "argument" was taken from Carm.org

Everything from Carm is pure bullshit. You're not meant to understand it.

[vixengrl]

5. Um, it's not very clear, but I'll give it a shot--

The laws of logic are conceptual by nature (important point).

Conceptual = they exist in your head. That's why they aren't tangible ( i.e. measurable, weighable--actually that's redundant, isn't it? Weight is a measure). It might be more accurate to say "abstract", if you asked me. The "laws of logic" that the poster is using sounds very authoritative, but the limit of logic is that it is a map--an abstract representation of ideas. The poster has an abstract notion of a transcendent mind. He calls it God.

I call this mind God. If you do not agree please demonstrate to me how it isn’t valid.

It is absolutely true that he calls it God. I agree that he calls it God. It's still an abstraction, and I don't see why one would have to adopt his worldview in order to knock it down.

I and he both have minds. Other people throughout history have aparently had them as well. They came up with concepts and the language to express them, and have even created religions to discuss some of them--but we're the "mapmakers". The existence of the "map" isn't really a proof at all--might as well say there's a God because there is a territory (which is also disputable).

At any rate, he has an absolute concept--but it's all in his head.


(I'm a Discordian every other Thursday. He has an absolute mind that he calls God. I have an absolute mindfuck I call Eris--who wins?)

[realisticphish]

6. "Conceptual" doesn't mean "supernatural"

logic is a human construct.

Wait, is this just a bizarre watchmaker argument? Because we created logic, and the world is logical, there must be an overarching logical mind?

I need to go lie down.

[salvorhardin]

7. Yep

It's just the watchmaker argument applied to logic bundled up in a sloppily wrapped anthropomorphic package.

[Deep13]

9. It's Aquinas' ontalogical argument all over against.

Just because we can conceive of something does not mean it must exist.

Specifically, my response to the writer's query is, "Demonstrate that the existence of logic necessitates the existence of god." The writer also commits two other logical fallacies. One is shifting the burden of proof. Like all other extraordinary claims, it is up to the proponents of supernature to demonstrate it exists, not the other way around. Second, the writer commits the fallacy of equivocation by using a novel, nonstandard definition of god.

[laconicsax]

10. It's crap.

Watchmaker argument, 'prove me wrong,' etc.

[dropkickpa]

11. I didn't become one, I've always been one

But I have to admit that I didn't read the the whole thing. It kind of started to sound like blahbity blah blah in my head and then I just hit reply because, to be perfectly honest, it was more than a little preachy and my attention wanders when that happens.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

12. That makes my head hurt

It's like he ate a bunch of important sounding words and ideas and shit them out onto his computer screen.