And now we have the "No true Jew" version

[DavidDvorkin]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7026911

[TZ]

1. He's Conservative is he not?

They tend to run pretty right wing. Reform Jews (which make up I believe the largest number in the US) are the pretty liberal secular bunch. Orthodox and Conservative are the Jewish version of fundies. So the whole "no true Jew" is predictable yet, pretty inaccurate.

[DavidDvorkin]

2. My memories of it all are way out of date

Back when I was a lad, and a Jew, Reform Jews tended to be liberal and Conservative Jews politically in the middle. I didn't know any Orthodox Jews in the U.S.

I thought that post was a variation of the "no true Scotchman" fallacy, rather than having to do with the branches of Judaism.

[Meshuga]

3. The conservative movement is a big tent...

...It has politically conservative and liberals members. But "Conservative Jews" (in my perception) are mostly liberal in politics. That's my opinion being affiliated to the conservative movement in the past. The word "Conservative" in Conservative judaism has to do with being more conservative than Reform Judaism as far as following Jewish rituals. I don't think it says much about their politics.

But going back to your original post... I agree that there is no such a thing as "a no true Jew" because of the bad conduct by a Jewish person. The person is Jewish because he/she is born Jewish or is a Jew by choice. The shitty character of a Jewish politician is an example of a Jewish politician who happens to be an asshole. I can see going after Lieberman (who is an Orthodox Jew) to question his actions in comparison to what Jewish law says about compassion and showing good character. Especially when it is implicit that Lieberman is a hallakhic Jew when he says he is an orthodox Jew. The guy cares so much about being shomer shabbos (won't flip a light switch on a sabbath), shomer kashrut (won't even use silverwear that was used for unkosher meat in the past) but does not care about the ethical laws.

However, I don't think there is anything anyone could shame Lieberman with, in my opinion.

[onager]

4. Shame? Apparently not...

ST. PAUL, Minn., Sept. 4 (2008) -- Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman is among several national security experts helping brief Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin on foreign policy issues as she prepares to hit the campaign trail...

I've also seen some quotes about Constipated Joe from Palin's new "book." I believe he told her she would win "with God's help" or some-such.

Pretty funny, since McCain originally wanted Lieberman as his V-P pick. He gave up on that idea after James Dobson and the American Taliban promised him a huge floor fight at the GOP convention, over Lieberman's being pro-choice etc.

[Meshuga]

5. Even worse is his threat to filibuster a health care bill with the Republicans

I'm glad to see Rabbi Fish (a Rabbi from the Conservative Movement) going after him.

But Lieberman has no shame or perhaps he thinks he does not have to worry about it since god already has his back. You know, Constipated Joe has someone pre-rip his toilet paper for him so he doesn't have to desecrate the sabbath in case he is able to take a shit on a shabbos afternoon.

[TZ]

6. Hmm. I guess I'm being influenced by my Conservative relatives

who are also very politically conservative as well. Got into a shouting match with my politically moderate Uncle in 2004 about how Bush is the only one who could protect Israel. They sound a lot like Lieberman actually which I suppose is why I think that Conservatives are more RW than others.

[Meshuga]

7. They do have politically conservative members

I know many of them as well. But the conservative movement is a big tent and the political affiliation does not seem to be an issue. The majority seem very liberal in politics but I am saying this based of my own perception. The rabbi going after Lieberman is a Rabbi from the conservative movement, for example, and I can see many of them doing this kind of protest.

I remember that there was a debate on whether the movement should change its name because of the confusion it can create since they are not necessarily conservatives. The movement is a post enlightenment movement that embraces scholarship and modernity but they try to be a hallakhic movement (one that follows Jewish Law) and that is the major difference that I see between the Conservative and Reform movements.

The fact that their movement try to be a big tent generates a lot of bickering. The amount of fights within the community (at least at the ones I affiliated) were unbelievable. So much so that I would not affiliate again. But their rabbis are pretty cool. I think the members are the ones who spoil it.